NICS Rant...

[JPDeacon]

Medication wearing off.

If you read the OP again, we are discussing "delays", not how fast you get a response.

Suggest you dealers start your own thread concerning "instant" and then maybe, just maybe we can put an end to this cat fight.

"Is", is, "is"........ if you know what I mean.

 

[dogtown tom]

JPDeacon .....Medication wearing off.....

Yours?

If you read the OP again, we are discussing "delays", not how fast you get a response.

Try reading the subsequent post by the OP regarding whether he believes the check to be "instant".

Suggest you dealers start your own thread concerning "instant" and then maybe, just maybe we can put an end to this cat fight.

Four posts in two years doesn't make you a moderator.

JPDeacon .......Some of you Gentlemen should stop, take a deep breath, take your medication and stop this semantics game you all (most all) have been playing. It all depends on what the definition of "is" is. RIGHT!
I also suggest you re-read the forum rules, like..."4. Spamming, trolling, flaming, and personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree with other members, even vehemently, but it must be done in a well-mannered form. Attack the argument, not the arguer."

Implying that forum members "take medication" isn't very high road.
Matter of fact, four posts in two years and two of them imply that forum members post what they do because of "medication.....sounds like a troll to me.

 

[JPDeacon]

Feel better guys...let it all out.....carry on

 

[Pudge]

"Well, being that 100% of FBI NICS transactions are immediately given a determination of Proceed, Delay or Denied......what is your point?"

According to the FBI, 8% of the NICS applications do not receive an immediate determination:

"For 2013, the FBI NICS Section achieved a 91.82 percent Immediate Determination Rate, surpassing the U.S. Attorney General-mandated goal of 90 percent or better."

The FBI indicates that the determination is the conclusion of the check, and 8.18% of the time it is not immediate would be my point. But who cares, really it is the same thing whether an instant delay is an instant check, or a delay is not an instant determination, the delay can cause shops to lose sales in 7% of total transactions, and those are to buyers who are not prohibited.

Ultimately I suspect that the two of us will not agree on this issue, and frankly this dead horse has been beaten quite enough.

I do have a question. You say that there are three responses: Proceed, Delay, or Deny, but the flow chart the FBI provided indicates that all the denials came from the delay group. Do they give immediate denials, or is the flow chart correct and all the denials come from the delay group (which would mean there are only 2 answers Proceed and Delay)?

 

[Joshua M.]

Ok, ok, ok...mods please lock this bitch and wine fest... My original post was my displeasure of a sale that didn't happen, until I bartered with the customer, to get him to come back. I have ran approximately 95 nics checks since my starting a shop in late November. Since the beginning of the year I had 1 guy that was denied twice, even though I gave his SSN#, and a 3 day delay. I lost 1 sale, and didn't make much $$ on the other in order to get the sale. My reason for starting this was to express my displeasure with losing sales because they don't have a system that works... Please close so all these he said, he quoted keyboard lawyers can relax...

 

[notaglockfanboy]

Ok, ok, ok...mods please lock this bitch and wine fest... My original post was my displeasure of a sale that didn't happen, until I bartered with the customer, to get him to come back. I have ran approximately 95 nics checks since my starting a shop in late November. Since the beginning of the year I had 1 guy that was denied twice, even though I gave his SSN#, and a 3 day delay. I lost 1 sale, and didn't make much $$ on the other in order to get the sale. My reason for starting this was to express my displeasure with losing sales because they don't have a system that works... Please close so all these he said, he quoted keyboard lawyers can relax...

I would suggest reading the warnings on that particular can of worms before opening it.

 

[12many]

I hear ya Joshua. It is frustrating to try to make a living and open a new business and then have obstacles. Tough enough as it is without other forces making it harder. You have my encouragement.

 

[dogtown tom]

Pudge

..."Well, being that 100% of FBI NICS transactions are immediately given a determination of Proceed, Delay or Denied......what is your point?"

According to the FBI, 8% of the NICS applications do not receive an immediate determination:

Sorry, it should have read "Well, being that 100% of FBI NICS transactions are immediately given a status of Proceed, Delay or Denied....

I do have a question. You say that there are three responses: Proceed, Delay, or Deny, but the flow chart the FBI provided indicates that all the denials came from the delay group. Do they give immediate denials, or is the flow chart correct and all the denials come from the delay group (which would mean there are only 2 answers Proceed and Delay)?

When calling the FBI NICS, the initial call is answered by a customer service rep. The CSR asks the dealer for certain information on the buyer as well as type of firearm. Then gives the dealer a NTN (NICS Transaction Number) followed by either "This transaction may proceed" or "This transaction requires further review...I will now transfer you to a NICS Examiner".

The call is forwarded to an FBI Legal Document Examiner who is authorized to review the records that were returned from the check on the buyers name. The examiner asks for the NTN and the buyers name and says "please hold while I review". Usually within 20-30 seconds they are back and will tell the dealer:
"Transaction number ABCD-123 may Proceed"
or
"Transaction number ABCD-123 is Denied"
or
"Transaction number ABCD-123 will be Delayed while NICS conducts additional research. The Brady Law does not prohibit the transfer of the firearm on (gives day and date).

It is possible that NICS:
-never calls back with a status update,
-they call back with "Proceed",
-they call back with "Denied".

Of the Denied transactions I've had, three were immediately Denied, three were Delays that changed to Denials within a day.

NICS used to allow dealers to call back to check for status updates on Delays, but stopped allowing that about three years ago.

 

[Pudge]

Thanks. Despite the complaints from those who were unaccountably forced to read this thread, this conversation forced me to learn a bit about the NICS. While I remain unconvinced of its usefulness, I have become impressed with how complicated and reliable it is on a functional level. I also always considered it from a buyer's perspective, but the prospect of losing sales to the delay status, or those periods of time when they cannot access the system makes the NICS more than just an added step of government oversight, but also an overall reduction in legal sales.

 

[buck460XVR]

Despite the complaints from those who were unaccountably forced to read this thread, this conversation forced me to learn a bit about the NICS. While I remain unconvinced of its usefulness, I have become impressed with how complicated and reliable it is on a functional level.

This is why this is a good thread. Not because of the original whine about lost sales, but because it has informed so many that were very ignorant on how the systems works. The gleaning of information is why many of us come to these types of internet forums, and for the most part, that too works. But, just like NICS, sometimes the result is not what we want. Many times the information is not correct, but same old/same old passed on by misinformed posters. Sometimes we have to wait a day or two to get the answer we need. I wonder if the success rate on this forum is anywhere close to what the NICS system gives?

The other thing this thread drives home to me, is what we have become as a nation. America has become a nation of whiners living on instant gratification. Technology has gotten so we don't have to wait three days for snail-mail to get a response to the written word and cell phones mean we no longer have to get home to make a call, or surf the internet. But......have the system go down or loose coverage in a area and the whining is now what's instant. Folks can't wait to get on Facebook and make a rant. Dumb guy at the LGS.....gotta hurry up and make a post on THR. Probably from the parking lot of the LGS on a cell phone Ap. Used to be folks didn't have time to surf the net for hours and make silly rants. They were too busy working and putting food on the table. Now, with so much spare time on their hands, they have nuttin' better to do than whine about how slow the world revolves around them.

I agree, the NICS system is not perfect, altho I have never been denied or delayed. Nor do I know of anyone personally that has. While the filling out the paperwork seems a tad tedious and the sometimes wait in line on a busy Saturday for your "proceed" to go thru cost me a little more money as I browse the store during my wait, I still consider myself to live in a country where the availability to legally obtain firearms, ammo and accessories is so easy, affordable and with so many options.

 

[deadin]

they have nuttin' better to do than whine about how slow the world revolves around them.

There's a word for that: "Egocentric".

 

[texasgun]

NICS sometimes requires MORE research and an actual person has to do more digging... hence the "delayed" verdict.

names might match the names of criminals
something else gets flagged

etc.

IMHO when I was on a H1B work permit I got ALWAYS delayed because they had to run additional checks on my immigration status. Now with Green Card and CHL here in Texas you can take it and walk out immediately which is nice.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I agree, the NICS system is not perfect, altho I have never been denied or delayed. Nor do I know of anyone personally that has. While the filling out the paperwork seems a tad tedious and the sometimes wait in line on a busy Saturday for your "proceed" to go thru cost me a little more money as I browse the store during my wait, I still consider myself to live in a country where the availability to legally obtain firearms, ammo and accessories is so easy, affordable and with so many options.

Well then, I guess you won't mind when they pass a bill to require a BC when you buy ammo. That will give you even more time to shop or just come back next week to pick up your ammo when you get a proceed.

Be sure to vote for that one when it comes up. Should fit right in with your schedule. After all, it's only time and money. And remember, no out of state ammo purchases. SAFE act, any proponents of that here?

 

[JFtheGR8]

Well then, I guess you won't mind when they pass a bill to require a BC when you buy ammo. That will give you even more time to shop or just come back next week to pick up your ammo when you get a proceed.

Be sure to vote for that one when it comes up. Should fit right in with your schedule. After all, it's only time and money. And remember, no out of state ammo purchases. SAFE act, any proponents of that here?

Good post. After getting called whiners for objecting to the NICS system it had to be said. Incrementalism will get you every time. People don't seem to notice the erosion of their rights taking place over several generations.

 

[Joshua M.]

Yea, I usually just can't wait to rant, cause I have nothin better to do. Good for you to point that out, keep going to the big box gunstores, and maybe all of us little guys that are trying to make a living to put food on our table will just say piss on it and go on welfare, instead of busting out humps to make the government happy. Good day

 

[Robert]

There is nothing more to be gained from leaving this thread open.