Night Sights: actually useful, or gimmicky?

[piece of meat]

im still a relatively new gun owner. ive opted to go with the night sight versions of my handguns, because i assumed it would be one step up from 'normal' sights in a low-light defensive encounter, and because they are just plain cool, the little glowing green orbs.

but lately ive noticed:

1. they are noticeably inferior to stock sights for range shooting (99.9% of the shooting most of us will do)

2. they tend to only show brightly in almost totally dark situations...but if its that dark, you arent even going to be able to see an attacker anyways, much less effectively line up the sights on a dark figure in a totally dark situation; in low to dim lights, they arent really any more visible that standard white sights to me.

3. in a defensive encounter, you probably arent going to assume a proper shooting stance and find/line up your sights- especially in the dark-most likely its going to be a draw point 'instinctively' and fire, likely even with one hand, in which case ANY sights probably wont be a factor.

id see where LEO's would opt for them since they often have to take offensive tactics but as far as the average joe civilian it seems that the actual practicality of them is pretty low, its more the 'tacticool factor' than anything else...
what is you guys' take on this, considering most of you have far more experience than me?

 

[reuben mishler]

Not to put the sights down, I have a set of Meprolight Tritium 3-dot night sights on a kimber...but I think it's more of a cool factor then anything.

Experience from two tours of Iraq...we made sure our front sight of our pistols was white, so that in low light situations you could make out the front sight only, should the need for your side arm come to exist.

In a concealed carry setting, the practicality of actually having the time to look down the sights, even in low light environment, is slim to none. Your instinct, will be to raise the firearm, look down the slide, and begin to squeeze off shots. In fact, I've been to courses that teach to shoot from the hip during the first phase of self defense in a concealed carry scenario.

Many will have opinions of this matter, but from experience, sights on a pistol during self defense measures....disappear. The average number of shots taken during self defense is 1.2

 

[BADUNAME13]

im still a relatively new gun owner. ive opted to go with the night sight versions of my handguns, because i assumed it would be one step up from 'normal' sights in a low-light defensive encounter, and because they are just plain cool, the little glowing green orbs.

but lately ive noticed:

1. they are noticeably inferior to stock sights for range shooting (99.9% of the shooting most of us will do)That 0.1% however... will be the most important of your LIFE!
In my last shooting class I used my Glock 26 (Subcompact version) with XS bigdots (Generally accepted as the most 'combat' and least 'range/target shooting' sites out there to hit Larue popup steel targets (Smaller than chest sized steel) back to 100 yards.

Shoot more.

If you are interested in 'plinking' or 'gamening'... than don't bother.
If you are trying to build SKILL... they are required IMHO.

2. they tend to only show brightly in almost totally dark situations...They show up well enough.but if its that dark, you arent even going to be able to see an attacker anyways, All the more reason to get every edge you can get. Oh, and I carry a light.much less effectively line up the sights on a dark figure in a totally dark situation;This is why you use night sites. in low to dim lights, they arent really any more visible that standard white sights to me.THen your doing something wrong.

3. in a defensive encounter, you probably arent going to assume a proper shooting stanceProbably not and find/line up your sights- especially in the dark-most likely its going to be a draw point 'instinctively' and fire, likely even with one hand, in which case ANY sights probably wont be a factor.You are training incorrectly. You should train to use your sites. I have done so, and have used my sites in both force on force (HIGHLY recomended training) and combat.

id see where LEO's would opt for them since they often have to take offensive tactics but as far as the average joe civilian it seems that the actual practicality of them is pretty low, its more the 'tacticool factor' than anything else...Or 'When your life depends on it'
what is you guys' take on this, considering most of you have far more experience than me?

See above... but you must choose your priorities for yourself.

I have them as a REQUIREMENT on a daily carry pistol.

 

[mljdeckard]

1. Most defensive shootings take place in low-light situations. I don't make a distinctions between range toys and defensive tools, I don't have one set for Saturday and another set for the rest of the time. All of my guns are for fighting.

2. I find that they work fine in light or dark. If it is too dark for you to see your attacker, why are you shooting at all?

3. Possibly. Not probably. Why would you not want to be prepared for everything you can be?

There are two main problems in low-light shooting. Identifying your target and seeing your sights. Night sights help with your sight picture, they don't help you ID your target. I have dropped my third magazine for a good flashlight. This is a useful tool just to have it, and it will help you ID the target. (But don't just buy one, learn how to use it correctly.)

There are many methods and options. It is best to have and know as many of them as possible when the second worst day of your life has arrived.

 

[Roughneck08]

Night sights are extremely critical as said above. Go outside at night and draw your weapon at a target 10 yards away in a quick manner and try to line up your sights. Hard. Trying to find your sights should be the last thing you have to worry about in a gun fight. I work predominately at night for a living and my life depends on my handgun. Night sights are a must for a fighting weapon. My weapon light does not shine on my sights so I need sights where I can see them. ID'ing your target is the most important factor. You don't want to second guess where your sights are.

Mljdeckard nailed it on the head.
Experience speaks.

 

[REAPER4206969]

They are nice, but certainly not a must have.

 

[Jed Carter]

Try to hit something at night without them, they do not have to be turned on or take batteries. A home defense pistol is incomplete without them, so is a concealed carry pistol. Gimicks are; rails on pistols, lasers, lights, redot sights, +2 floorplates, fiber optics and any color except black or silver, just to name a few.

 

[JDGray]

My bedroom pistol has them for no other reason than a locator in the dark Seeing 3 bright green dots over on the dresser gives me comfort. Your natural point of aim should get you on target, but without a flashlight to go along with the sights, your just shooting in the dark.

 

[HK-Freak]

Gimicks are; rails on pistols, lasers, lights...

I agreed with everything you said right up until here^^^

To the OP: Night sights are anything but a gimmick. Take a two or three day combat handgun course that involves low light shooting and you'll see what I mean. It's hard enough to see your front sight when you have a hard ass instructor breathing down your neck. Imagine trying to find a non-illuminated front sight at night when someone's shooting back at you.

 

[LiveLife]

I was trained by a Range Master who taught local PD/Sheriff SWAT. We ran low light and no light shooting drills with night sighted pistols and guess what? They don't always work as intended.

Your visual acuity is highly unreliable, especially depending on the brightness of muzzle flash which will decrease your pupil size even more. Any of you actually measured the various muzzle flash brightness/size of your factory JHP loads? If you work mostly at night, muzzle flash brightness/size may be a factor you may want to consider. And a huge +1 for a good light.

Also, in low/no light situation with very bright flashlight use (100-120+ lumens), night sight brightness becomes less useful as your pupils constrict from the brightness of the flashlight. As our low/no light shooting drills revealed, instinctive point-shooting is much more useful than relying on night sights and your visual acuity.

With proper practice, you should be able to maintain 4"-6" shot groups at 5-7 yards with instinctive point-shooting from draw with your eyes closed. We drill until we are proficient in hitting 6 paper plates taped to cardboard when called out at 5 yards (top left, bottom center, etc.).

Try this drill as low/no light practice:
- With eyes closed, draw and point-shoot until you obtain 4"-6" shot groups at 5 yards.
- Take a marker and divide your cardboard/paper target into 6 boxes (one vertical line down the middle and 2 horizontal lines across).
- With target set at 5 yards, close your eyes and draw to fire at one of 6 boxes.
- Once you can call out the shots and still maintain 4"-6" shot groups shooting from quick draw, you got one more skill up your sleeve to use in low/no light situations.

Cost of marker = about $0.50.
Cost of night sights = much more $$$

Any questions?

 

[xmanpike]

You never know exactly what the situation will be, but let me give my own personal experience.

I shot a 250 lb wild hog at about 300 yards with my 270 Win. right as shooting light disappeared. I knew I hit him, but I didnt think the shot was great. I was using ammo I dont normally use so POI was unknown. My buddy, his little boy and I all piled in the 4 wheeler and headed that way. By the time we went around the lake where I had shot him, it was completely dark. I heard some movement in the brush and my buddy pulled up to a large brush area. I hopped out with a flashlight and as I walked around the pile I heard a grunt. Within seconds, this large boar was charging me. I drew my Colt Gold Cup 1911 and drew to shoot. But WAIT! I cant see my f*#!ing sights! I emptied the mag shooting at the pig at a distance of less than 10 yards. Upon autopsy it looks like I hit him twice. In any case he turned away and died about 20 yards off.

I immediately ordered adjustable night sights and had them installed a week later. I truly believe had I at least been able to see my sights, I would have done much better.

Just my $.02

 

[chicharrones]

I only have two handguns equipped for dim-light shooting. A revolver with a CTC laser and a Glock with a Glock front night sight (& standard rear sight). The difference between the two in being able to pick them up visually is like the difference between the sun and the moon.

I do like the night sight when the interior lights of my house are off, but I have dim light coming through the windows from exterior lighting. The night sight is perfect in that situation. I can see my target well and I can see the night sight well.

Plus, like mentioned by JDGray, if your gun is next to you* while in bed you can see that little tritium glowing reminding you that your gun is there without having to touch it.

*like on a nightstand

 

[ForumSurfer]

2. they tend to only show brightly in almost totally dark situations...but if its that dark, you arent even going to be able to see an attacker anyways, much less effectively line up the sights on a dark figure in a totally dark situation; in low to dim lights, they arent really any more visible that standard white sights to me.

I disagree. If you'll walk around your property, you may have some shadows. In the shadows, my plain 'ol white sights or my fiber optic sights aren't visible. My night sights are. It isn't anywhere near completely dark and I can clearly see anyone else in my yard, but one shadow falling across me and I can't see my sights. Reason enough for me right there. I may not need my sights in a defensive situation, but IMO I like to have as many tools available as possible...just in case.

IMO, just the front sight in tritium will do. Are they necessary at all? No. I just prefer them on a defensive piece.

If it's something I'm not using defensively, all black sight are the way to go for me.

what is you guys' take on this, considering most of you have far more experience than me?

I don't have any defensive experience and I hopefully never will!

But I have practiced a whole bunch of rounds in dim to low light with my night sights and I don't feel they are a gimmick. Not %100 necessary, but a valuable tool for me in my tool bag. Yes I prefer all black combat or target sights, but my night sights work pretty well, too. I don't feel them to be drastically inferior for range sights.

 

[PabloJ]

I heard they're useful when trying to locate gun in the dark.......I would try hot pink grip panels instead.

 

[Just One Shot]

I have both night sights and laser on my main CCW. For the night sights I use the Truglo TFO (tritium/fiber optic). I have heard from some people that their front sight tube came out of theirs but after 3 sets on different handguns, I personally haven't experience this problem. The TFOs are very easy to see both day and night in all lighting conditions.

 

[Hangingrock]

Night sights I’ve experimented with (3) Dot and Dot the “I” configurations with varying degrees of satisfaction. For my usage I’ve found this combination works. The front sight a night sight (Novak) and a rear plain “U” notch sight such as sold by 10-8.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Your visual acuity is highly unreliable, especially depending on the brightness of muzzle flash which will decrease your pupil size even more. Any of you actually measured the various muzzle flash brightness/size of your factory JHP loads? If you work mostly at night, muzzle flash brightness/size may be a factor you may want to consider. And a huge +1 for a good light.

I agree completely. When I've practiced in low to dim light, the muzzle flash does eventually cause issues. But not so much that I can no longer see my night sights.

However, I carry just in case I am ever forced to draw and fire defensively. I may or may not have a light. If I’m stepping out of my car with a wal-mart bag going about day to day life, I like the comfort of knowing that my night sights will provide that initial sight picture if I choose to use it; whether I’m in the shadows or whether I happen to have a flash light (even if I did, suppose that it got activated accidentally earlier in the day and it is now dead) or not. As I said, it’s just one more tool in the box. Not necessary, but not unnecessary either.

 

[PabloJ]

I hate these but in this case I would go with quality mini-light/laser module. With the laser one can at least shoot from the hip. Playing with night dot sights in low light conditions is excellent way to get killed by the other guy.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Playing with night dot sights in low light conditions is excellent way to get killed by the other guy.

Who's playing?

For me, that laser unit would be "playing" because I haven't used it, I haven't practiced with it and therefor I'm definitely not going to be proficient with it.

Practice with what you intend to carry/use in a situation in which you envision you may need to use it.

 

[InkEd]

I think they are nice but not a "must have" option.

In total darkness, I think a flashlight would be more helpful.

In regards to all the concern about pitch-black home invasion scenarios, why not just put a few cheap night lights around the house? It would spare alot of worry.

 

[M1key]

Shooting to save my life and the lives of my loved ones? I want every advantage I can get. Night sights ONLY HELP, since most home invasions are likely to happen at night. I cannot see where they are EVER a disadvantage. Most all my pistols are defensive, so they wear night sights and are capable of mounting a tactical light (another topic for discussion).


M

 

[Fuller Malarky]

Quote reuben mishler

Not to put the sights down, I have a set of Meprolight Tritium 3-dot night sights on a kimber...but I think it's more of a cool factor then anything.

Experience from two tours of Iraq...we made sure our front sight of our pistols was white, so that in low light situations you could make out the front sight only, should the need for your side arm come to exist.

In a concealed carry setting, the practicality of actually having the time to look down the sights, even in low light environment, is slim to none. Your instinct, will be to raise the firearm, look down the slide, and begin to squeeze off shots. In fact, I've been to courses that teach to shoot from the hip during the first phase of self defense in a concealed carry scenario.

Many will have opinions of this matter, but from experience, sights on a pistol during self defense measures....disappear. The average number of shots taken during self defense is 1.2

I believe this echo's my experience and belief. After the first round, I can't see the night sights anyway. And it may be unlikely that I will acquire a sight picture at all in a split second life threatening situation. I am resolved to use my weapon as a last resort, not as my first option. Right or wrong, that may allow the assailant in closer than would be safe to extend a hand with a weapon in it, making any sights useless in a point-and-shoot situation.

My primary carry weapon is a revolver with a white painted front ramp sight.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Useful. And you don't need total darkness to see them if they are bright enough to start with. They still glow in low light (e.g., darkened room, twilight). Putting white inlays around the ampoule gives the same effect in bright light as a conventionally dotted sight.

 

[fastbolt]

Over the course of my LE career, as both working cop and a firearms instructor, I came to appreciate the value of night sights.

Many of my own handguns are equipped with them.

While not caring to debate the value of sighted v. non-sighted shooting, I've had the opportunity to listen to a fair number of cops who have been involved in shootings, many of whom were seriously injured by gunfire during their incidents. Quite a number of them distinctly remember either seeing their sights when they were getting hits, or realizing at one point in the incident that they needed to find their sights in order to start making accurate hits on their attackers.

I remember one gentleman (det) who was seriously injured and ended up laying on the floor of a store during a shooting incident. He said that although the attacker had already been injured by gunfire from cops present, he realized that he needed to use his sights to try and end the gunfight with accurate shots to the attackers head ... which he did.

Another cop related how he'd emptied 2 of his issued mags (hi-cap .40 weapon) trying to defend against an armed attacker. He'd been hit and badly injured during the incident, and he said that as he loaded his last (3rd) magazine into his weapon he realized that he needed to stop using "instinctive fire" to try and hit his attacker and use his sights to try and survive the incident. He deliberately aimed and put a couple of rounds into his attacker, which caused the attacker to seek cover, injured, where he remained until responding units arrived, found him and took him into custody.

Another cop reported how she had resorted to the skills she had gained during her frequent practice (weekly, apparently, in order to improve her skills), and after being shot once in the chest with a .357 Magnum at close range she shot her attacker 4 times, using aimed fire, putting him down and stopping him.

I could go on, and I can think of at least a couple of incidents in which the cops reported using point shooting (and didn't see their sights), and got hits on their attackers at close range, but many more of them have been where cops saw and used their sights and got hits on their attackers.

Being able to acquire your sights, especially when conditions favor the visibility of night sights, seems helpful to achieve accurate aimed fire.

I installed night sights on my recent pistol purchase last month ... and I have a number of night sights which are reaching 10-12+ years old and will likely require new tritium capsules at some point.

The front night sight on my M&P 340 J-frame makes for much easier front sight acquisition during night shoots.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Dogguy]

My eyes are old. I can't hold focus on sights and targets. My vision in low light is not good. I tried night sights 3-4 years ago and found my ability to hit what I was trying to hit improved considerably. Since then, I've had night sights installed on every gun I've bought that didn't already come with them. Everyone is different and vision variations occur for various reasons. Some people may be able to use plain black sights in near darkness without even squinting. That's wonderful...I'll raise a toast to you the next time I have a beer. But night sights worked for me and I'll keep on using them.