NJ laws for out of staters

[andrewdl007]

So I live in New York City and am hoping to find somewhere nearby to shoot skeet and trap. There is a trap range near a relative's home in New Jersey so I was looking into it ant the rage told me NJ does not permit the range loaning guns. That got me wondering, as a Virginia license holder living in New York, what do I have to do to keep a shotgun in NJ? Is it even possible? There are still a whole lot of logistics like where would I keep the gun (in NJ or spending time and money getting a NYC permit). Input from anyone who is familiar with the state laws who can put it in simple language is appreciated. Of course I would double check the laws before taking any action.

 

[dprice3844444]

ask the range if they have a storage facility for weapons,or if hey permit a small safe to be placed and secured on property.

http://us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/yhs...t&hsimp=yhs-att_001&type=att_lego_portal_home
http://www.nj.gov/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf

 

[OldBrownDog]

First off, that range is full of crap. You can rent guns in NJ. I've done it multiple times.

Second, do you already own a shotgun? If so, where is it stored now and why wouldn't it be acceptable to leave it there? Why not just store it at your relative's house? If not, you will need either a NJ Firearms Purchaser ID Card (acquired through NJ State Police) to buy a shotgun in NJ, or a NYC permit to buy a shotgun there. (I assume your VA carry? permit is a non-resident one).

 

[Midwest]

These guys can answer any question about NJ gun laws.

http://njgunforums.com/forum/

 

[Willie Sutton]

And most of us who live in NJ (past tense for me) shoot trap and skeet in Pennsylvania, just due to the dearth of good ranges in NJ. With that said, there are a lot more shotgun ranges than rifle/pistol ranges in NJ. PM if you want some specifics.

Willie

.

 

[oneounceload]

So I live in New York City and am hoping to find somewhere nearby to shoot skeet and trap.

Don't even have to leave the City - just go to Staten Island to shoot

http://www.sitrap.org/

 

[Speedo66]

Westchester Cty. parks dep't, just north of NYC, also has skeet and trap ranges open to the public. http://parks.westchestergov.com/blue-mountain-reservation/sportsman-center

 

[PabloJ]

Westchester Cty. parks dep't, just north of NYC, also has skeet and trap ranges open to the public. http://parks.westchestergov.com/blue-mountain-reservation/sportsman-center

Few years ago they held bunch of guys passing through NJ for hunting trip in another state.
No Fanks.

 

[PWGUNNY]

Long Island could also be an option. There are 2 ranges out east, Brookhaven and Suffolk County Trap and Skeet in Yaphank. I shoot often at Suffolk Clays in Yaphank. I know they rent guns there, and they might have a storage option for you. They are a very polite and well run club. Good luck.

 

[Speedo66]

Few years ago they held bunch of guys passing through NJ for hunting trip in another state.
No Fanks.

Not clear on who you're saying held the hunters. I'm sure it was not Westchester Cty. since there are no long gun hunting arm restrictions there.

 

[cl4de6]

Ok, here is the skinny from an NJ resident.

It sounds like you don't have an NYC permit. I'm not familiar with the NYC laws, but I can tell you a lot about NJ.

If you *do* own a shotgun and you want to drive here to shoot, you can. But you have to go directly to the range. No stopping. The shotgun also has to be NJ lawful. That basically means any kind of pump with an 18+ barrel. But you can only have a semi-auto with a 5 shot capacity and the semi-auto shotgun can't have a pistol grip or collapsible stock.

You can't leave the shotgun here with a friend because that would be an unlawful transfer.

You can borrow a friend's shotgun at the range. That is legal, but he must remain with you while you shoot or it becomes an unlawful transfer.

HOWEVER, you can get an out-of-state Firearms ID card. Contact the NJ State Police to find out how to apply. Once you get the FID card you can do a couple of things:

#1. You can buy a shotgun in NJ and bypass the NYC laws although I don't know the legality of bringing the shotgun back into NYC.

#2. Once you get the FID, you can drive wherever you like with the shotgun as long as it is unloaded - meaning you can stop for gas or to use the bathroom.

#3. You have two options for keeping the gun here:
I. You can purchase or lease a piece of property in NJ. If you have an apartment here or a home, you can keep the gun here. You may be able to do a lease agreement with your friend (pay him a dollar a month for rent) and *poof* you now have a residence in NJ and can keep a gun here.
II. If your friend has an FID card and you have an FID card, you can leave the gun at his house by filling out a "Certificate of Eligibility" (COE) and basically sell the gun to the friend. When you want to shoot, stop by the house. You fill out another COE and he sells the gun back to you. When you get home, fill out the COE again and sell the gun back to him.

NOTE, only do that last option with a friend you trust. Once you fill out that COE, that gun is his and he can sell it legally.

I know some of you who are living in Free States are laughing at the absurdity of all of this. Please I beg all of you, support the New Jersey Second Amendment Society (NJ2AS.org) with a small donation. Because the laws that start here will eventually come to your state.

 

[GRIZ22]

cl4de6, one major flaw in our post. A NY resident cannot transfer any gun to a NJ resident on a COE. That transfer (for a long gun only) would have to be done by a FFL. Residents of two different states cannot do a ftf transfer of any firearm.

 

[cl4de6]

You know what, what, you are right. Free legal advice is worth exactly what you pay for. Although he could still buy a gun in NJ with an NJ FID.

However, the lease agreement idea could work, If the OP owned a home at the Jersey Shore, he could keep a gun here. There is no difference between drawing up a lease agreement at a shore home and drawing one up to rent a room at a friend or relative's house.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Although he could still buy a gun in NJ with an NJ FID...

Stop encouraging possibly illegal conduct. Don't make statements like this when you apparently don't fully understand the law.

Under federal law, the OP may not buy a gun in New Jersey unless (1) he is a New Jersey resident (as defined by federal law); or (2) he is able to obtain a long gun legal in New York from a New Jersey FFL in a manner that satisfies both New York (the OP's State of residence) and New Jersey law. Although I'm not certain, I seriously doubt that the latter is doable. See 18 USC 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922(b)(3).

And for the purposes of federal gun transfer law "State of Residence" is defined as follows (27 CFR 478.11):

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1.

A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2.

A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3.

A, an alien, travels on vacation or on a business trip to State X. Regardless of the length of time A spends in State X, A does not have a State of residence in State X. This is because A does not have a home in State X at which he has resided for at least 90 days.

 

[GRIZ22]

Frank, he could buy a long gun in NJ from an FFL as long as he has a NJ FID and NYC requirements can be met.

I've lived in NJ nearly my entire life and always though a non-resident couldn't buy a long gun in NJ but a few NJ FFLs have enlightened me in the past few years.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...he could buy a long gun in NJ from an FFL as long as he has a NJ FID and NYC requirements can be met....

Yes, I said that:

...he is able to obtain a long gun legal in New York from a New Jersey FFL in a manner that satisfies both New York (the OP's State of residence) and New Jersey law....

The trick is whether a New Jersey FFL can do a transfer that satisfies New York law.

The laws of some States are such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to comply in order to lawfully transfer a long gun to a non-resident. I don't know whether that would be the case for a resident of New York City, but it seem probable given the complexity of New York City gun laws.

In any case, unless one is well versed in New York and New York City gun laws and knows for sure that a New Jersey FFL could transfer a long gun in compliance with applicable New York law, one should not simply suggest that a New York City resident may

...buy a gun in NJ with an NJ FID...

Maybe he could do so lawfully, and maybe he could not. And in any event he could only buy it through an FFL and not by a private sale.

 

[bushmaster1313]

II. If your friend has an FID card and you have an FID card, you can leave the gun at his house by filling out a "Certificate of Eligibility" (COE) and basically sell the gun to the friend. When you want to shoot, stop by the house. You fill out another COE and he sells the gun back to you. When you get home, fill out the COE again and sell the gun back to him.

Copy of Certificate of eligibility must go to local Police Department within 10 days of "transfer".

Also, unless you have a New Jersey Firearm Purchaser Identification Card do not even think of bringing a gun into New Jersey unless you are really just passing through. I can take my shotgun to shoot trap in MAryland but my friend from Maryland cannot bring his shotgun to shoot trap in New Jersey. Go figure.

 

[GRIZ22]

bushmaster, COEs stay with the buyer and seller in a FTF transaction of a long gun. No requirement to provide anyone else with COE.

PS. Someone from out of state can also bring a firearm into NJ as long as its to a range, hunting, or FFL. Travel must be direct with no unneccessary deviations.

 

[Tom488]

I can take my shotgun to shoot trap in MAryland but my friend from Maryland cannot bring his shotgun to shoot trap in New Jersey. Go figure.

Why not? 2C:39-6f(3)(b).

 

[Frank Ettin]

I do believe that it's possible for a non-resident to get a New Jersey FID, and I believe that would resolve any problem bringing a gun into New Jersey. Perhaps the New Jersey residents participating can chime in.

 

[OldBrownDog]

Frank - this is my understanding from growing up around guns in New Jersey, going through the FID card process myself, and studying it until I felt comfortable with it.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

The FID is more properly called a Firearms Purchasers ID card - as a matter of fact, that's what mine says right across the top. It is illegal to acquire a rifle or shotgun in NJ without an FPID card, whether from an FFL or in a private sale. The address on your FPID card must match your DL. You may acquire an FPID card as an OOS resident and buy a gun in NJ. But then you're gonna have to take the the gun back to NYC, or leave it at your friends house.....

As to going to the range/hunting location/gunstore/etc. - NJ law actually bans all possession of firearms, full stop. It then carves out exemptions for 1. Your home. 2. Your place of business. 3. A range. 4. Hunting. and maybe one or two others, I forget right now. To the best of my knowledge, in New Jersey the FPID card is not required to possess a weapon where legal, or when traveling between places where it is legal to possess a firearm*. The FPID card is only necessary to buy the firearm. The unfortunate part about transporting guns in NJ - if you are driving somewhere you will legally be allowed to possess a gun in NJ you must go directly there. No unnecessary stops. No grabbing a bite to eat, no visiting your friend in the next town over, no stop to grab groceries on the way home. Gas and restrooms are pretty much the only legally acceptable reasons to stop while traveling with a gun in NJ. The gun must be in a locked case or locked in the trunk, unloaded.

NJ laws are onerous, and that is a generous description.


*Caveat - Good luck finding a police officer in NJ who knows/cares about this. Best case, you'll get dragged down to the station until they can sort out that you aren't committing a crime, then release you and you'll get your gun back whenever. Best to just have an FPID.

 

[AK103K]

PS. Someone from out of state can also bring a firearm into NJ as long as its to a range, hunting, or FFL. Travel must be direct with no unneccessary deviations.

I was wondering why this hadnt been brought up sooner. I used to shoot DCM shoots in NJ back in the late 80's and 90's, and used to shoot with a couple of family member and friends there up into the early 2000's. I always brought my guns, including handguns, and it was never an issue. We were always shooting at existing and established ranges though, and not the sand pits down in the barrens, as others Ive known did/do.

As long as what you are bringing along are legal there, and you transport them properly, I dont see why you would have a problem.

If youre not sure whats what, call the NJ State police and ask.

 

[oneounceload]

I guess no one saw or liked my response in post #6 - he wants to shoot trap/skeet - he does NOT have to leave the city to do it. There's a club on Staten island - only 1 toll over the Verrazano, no NJ laws to worry about, etc.
Sometimes simple is best

 

[pseudonymity]

Under federal law, the OP may not buy a gun in New Jersey unless (1) he is a New Jersey resident (as defined by federal law); or (2) he is able to obtain a long gun legal in New York from a New Jersey FFL in a manner that satisfies both New York (the OP's State of residence) and New Jersey law. Although I'm not certain, I seriously doubt that the latter is doable. See 18 USC 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922(b)(3).

This brings up what I believe to be an interesting legal question regarding 18 USC 992(b)(3). The transfer must fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in NY state (and NJ of course), but does the sale have to comply with the legal conditions in NYC? For instance, I live in upstate NY, and I could buy a typical sporting shotgun in another state according to NY law, no problem. Also, a NYC resident can buy a sporting shotgun outside NYC inside NY, but not transport the gun into the city without a permit. The laws specific to NYC are based on possession of guns only within NYC limits.

So does 18 USC 922(b)(3) apply to laws specific only to the laws of both states (statewide) or does the FFL need to know every specific law of all the specific political subdivisions of the state of residence of the buyer?

 

[Frank Ettin]

...The transfer must fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in NY state (and NJ of course), but does the sale have to comply with the legal conditions in NYC?...

Beats me. It's probably a question that a federal court will need to answer for a NYC resident. Do you know any NYC residents who would like to throw the dice on that question against five years in federal prison and/or a fine (plus a lifetime loss of gun rights)?