No Commercial Ammo in an M1A?

[m4shooter]

So I recently picked up a new Springfield Standard M1A. The Springfield manual says that only military manufactured 7.62 ammunition should be used, and that "civilian" (which I'm interpreting as "commercial") ammo should be avoided due to sensitive commercial primers and the resulting risk of slamfires.

Is this really true, or is Springfield just being overly cautious? I find it hard to believe that a reputable commercial round would be considered unsafe.

Thanks for any input.

 

[lipadj46]

You can use commercial ammo just keep it under 180 grain bullets unless you get an adjustable gas plug. Pretty much the higher pressure rounds can bend the op rod. Ideally with the regular gas plug you want to stay under 176 grain bullets. Soft tip bullets may have feeding issues so test them out before you buy a bunch. Some of the best to use for hunting is the polymer tips or hollow point 150-165 grain.

 

[cuervo]

Your M1A has a floating firing pin that will strike the newly-chambered round when the bolt closes. If the primer is soft enough, it can cause the round to fire.

You can use commercial ammo but it may be worth finding some with harder primers as Springfield suggests.

If you need to, you can always close the gas system and have a single-shot rifle for the heavier bullets/soft primers.

 

[brooks]

One of the cautions to reduce the chances of a slam fire in a M1 is to always load from the magazine. The bolt slamming home on a loaded chamber has more energy than when picking up and chambering a round from the magazine. It makes sense to me.

 

[lipadj46]

SAI is probably doing a little CYA with that warning. Many people who hunt with their M1A use commercial ammo without any issues. I would think most people who have military rifles for the most part shoot surplus or new 7.62 Nato type ammo though just because it is cheaper than hunting ammo. Good maintenance and letting the rounds load from the magazine is the best way to guard against slam fires.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

You can use commercial ammo just keep it under 180 grain bullets unless you get an adjustable gas plug. Pretty much the higher pressure rounds can bend the op rod. Ideally with the regular gas plug you want to stay under 176 grain bullets. Soft tip bullets may have feeding issues so test them out before you buy a bunch. Some of the best to use for hunting is the polymer tips or hollow point 150-165 grain

Is this for the m1 Garand or the m1a? (Or both?)

 

[lipadj46]

both, they are very similar rifles with very similar rounds.

 

[General Geoff]

The Garand is somewhat more sensitive than the M1A, which is why it's recommended that you only use surplus .30-06 in it. The M1A (which uses a short stroke gas system compared to the Garand's long stroke) is somewhat more tolerant of different pressures generated by varying powders and bullet weights, but it still doesn't like very heavy bullets.

 

[m4shooter]

My original post concerned the M1A.

More than anything, my concern is not with gas pressures, but rather with Springfield's warning that commercial primers are not to be used as they are more sensitive than mil-spec primers and thus more prone to slam fires.

 

[lipadj46]

I have not heard any reports of slam fires from using commercial ammo. Load from the magazine and don't let the bolt slam home hard on a round and you should be fine. Honestly if your firing pin is free floating properly you will not have a problem just keep an eye on your in it is easy you can see and hear it slide back and forth in the bolt.

People worry more about damaging oprods using heavy bullets then slam fires.

 

[trstafford]

BATFE and slam fires

Isn't that how the BATFE has railroaded several people into prison by using soft primer ammo in their rifles to make them slam fire? Then they claim they are full auto.

 

[Nasty Ned]

If you reload, CCI makes a special primer that has a thicker shell than commercial primers for both large and small rifle loading. SAI also says not to shoot reloaded ammo in the M1A. I find that is simply a CYA or lawyer made statement. Most important is not to use heavy bullets and always load from the mag. just like everyone else has told you. I have shot lots of reloaded ammo with commercial primers in M1's and M1A's with no problems but I did have a slam fire with a M1 Carbine once. That cost me a bolt and a stock, no injuries fortunately. I hope never to have that happen again.

 

[Dienekes]

As mentioned, stay with ammo loaded to GI specs, either purchased or (properly!) handloaded. 168 grain match bullets are as heavy as I go. As to commercial primers, that's all I've used in the M1A for ten years plus (and a real M-14 for a while). Just make sure the cases and the loaded rounds are in spec, and primers seated below flush. Load from the mag; slight dimpling is normal. Have never had a problem with ammo loaded this way in any of several M1s or ARs.

However, if I were SA and selling to the general public, I would got the CYA route too.

 

[lipadj46]

Isn't that how the BATFE has railroaded several people into prison by using soft primer ammo in their rifles to make them slam fire? Then they claim they are full auto.

Are you suggesting if we use commercial ammo in our M14 then we will be arrested by the BATF and thrown in jail because we have a machine gun? Just trying to follow the train of thought here in the context of the conversation.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

The Slam Fire issue is a seperate issue from the Over Pressure issue.

Slam fires occur when the primer contacts a soft primer as a round is chambered, and detonates the primer when the bolt closes. This happens rarely with commercial ammo because softer primers are used in commercial ammo. Federal primers are the softest.

The Over Pressure issue occurs because commercial 308 is hotter than surplus. This can bend your operating rod.

Are you suggesting if we use commercial ammo in our M14 then we will be arrested by the BATF and thrown in jail because we have a machine gun? Just trying to follow the train of thought here in the context of the conversation.

You will only have a problem if your gun is slam firing. But yes, I believe there was a recent case of the ATF arresting someone whose AR was slam firing.

 

[lipadj46]

Are you talking about the guy that had a worn sear on his AR and lent it to a guy that took it to a range and the gun went auto then the BATF arrested the guy and he is in jail? That is what I find when searching for the slam fire issue but it is not a slam fire that was the issue. Is there a link for what you are talking about?

 

[Slamfire]

SAI also says not to shoot reloaded ammo in the M1A. I find that is simply a CYA or lawyer made statement.

Springfield Armory is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Liability lawyers make these statements necessary. The M14 design has a free floating firing pin, which it got from the Garand. SAI is not going to change the design of the rifle. Any deviation from "GI Spec" is negatively commented on by a small, but vocal group of people. You can see this in the debates of cast versus forged, and SAI decided to keep 8620 steel, instead of using a better grade of steel, not to anger the "GI Spec" crowd.

So, they are not going to change the design, and they don't control the quality of people's reloads, nor do they control the sensitivity of primers used in commercial ammunition.

There are so many people out there who cut mainspring coils, don’t replace old ones, leave grease on the firing pin (in cold weather) and then blame ammunition companies for the subsequent misfires, that ammunition companies use very sensitive primers in their ammunition. Some, like Federal, are proud to tell you that their primers are the most sensitive on the market.

While all primers meet SAAMI specs, SAAMI is a voluntary industry organization. These specifications are written so that no one’s product fails.

As far as commercial ammunition, I would not use Federal in a M1a or a M1 Garand. I remember the first year Federal ammunition was issued at the Camp Perry Garand Match. A slamfire occurred standing. Everyone heard it. The shooter dropped the round in his chamber, dropped the bolt, and the Garand slamfired in battery. Federal primers in ammunition, factory or not, are too sensitive to use in these rifles.

Unfortunately, in 1999, Winchester changed the color of their primers to a brass finish, and made the primers more sensitive. As much as I liked the old Winchester primers, I don’t recommend them for M1a’s/Garands. So I don’t recommend Winchester ammo for these rifles either, even though I have read of only one slamfire with Winchester ammo.

It has been said before, always feed rounds from a SLED or a magazine. Never drop the bolt on a round in the chamber.

I did have a slam fire with a M1 Carbine once. That cost me a bolt and a stock, no injuries fortunately. I hope never to have that happen again.

Be interested to read more about this. Was it with GI ammunition, was it feeding from the magazine?

 

[lipadj46]

I remember the first year Federal ammunition was issued at the Camp Perry Garand Match. A slamfire occurred standing. Everyone heard it. The shooter dropped the round in his chamber, dropped the bolt, and the Garand slamfired in battery. Federal primers in ammunition, factory or not, are too sensitive to use in these rifles.

Again he loaded the round manually and let the bolt slam home which is asking for a slam fire. I know many people who use the Federal (American Eagle?) 7.62 Nato in their M1A's this stuff is Nato spec though I believe.

Unfortunately, in 1999, Winchester changed the color of their primers to a brass finish, and made the primers more sensitive. As much as I liked the old Winchester primers, I don’t recommend them for M1a’s/Garands. So I don’t recommend Winchester ammo for these rifles either, even though I have read of only one slamfire with Winchester ammo.

I have about 300 rounds of 7.62 Nato WCC from 1966 and it has brass primers as does the white box WCC stuff from today though this too is Nato spec ammo suposedly.

 

[Retro]

I bought a box of Federal Gold Metal .308 175 grain, and I was hoping to shoot it next weekend. Now you guys made me worried.

Btw, is there a Federal 7.62 Nato round? I thought all Federal ammos are .308.

 

[lipadj46]

I thought the Federal American Eagle was 7.62 Nato. It says .308 though on the box so who knows, for some reason I thought this was what the military was using these days. I've been know to be wrong though. I know quite a few people who use it in their M1A's though. I would be more worried about your federal being 175 grain than soft primers as long as you load from the magazine. If you are only shooting 20 or 4o rounds you are probably OK but any more and I would get an adjustable gas plug or just turn you gas system off and cycle the action manually.

 

[Average Joe]

I don't use commercial ammo in my M1A, but if I had to, I would only use a bullet that is less than 150 gr. Like others have said, only load from the mag.
Never put a bullet in the chamber, and slam the bolt on it. It may discharge !

 

[Slamfire]

I bought a box of Federal Gold Metal .308 175 grain, and I was hoping to shoot it next weekend. Now you guys made me worried

Your risk with factory new Federal is very low. The basic reason is that the case is new. New cases are significantly smaller than reloaded cases. Unless you have an abnormally out of tolerance chamber, there should be zero delay to bolt closure. If your rifle slamfires, like the afore mentioned Garand shooter, the rifle will most likely slamfire in battery.

It is when folks resize brass, and don't size the brass below chamber dimensions, that is when they greatly increase the chance of an out of battery slamfire.

I don't have data to show it, but it is likely that the chance of an overly sensitive Federal primer is the same in reloads and factory Federal ammo. But having little to no resistance to chambering with factory rounds greatly reduces the probability of a serious event.

Still, my two slamfires in Garands were with Federal primers in my reloads. The second slamfire blew the back end of the receiver off the rifle. So I am not going to use anything Federal, ammo or primers, in my M1a's/M1's.

Getting blowed up makes one real cautious.

 

[jaholder1971]

Listen to me carefully:

Millions of millions of rounds of Federal match ammo has been fired from SA, Inc. M1A rifles without issue. HAve there been some slamfires? Yes, but that's happened with Winchester, Federal, Hornady, Lake City, Remington and every other ammo maker. It happens.

Load it, shoot it and don't worry.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I've put a couple boxes of Federal 150 gr JSP through my M1A and I have a box or two more loaded up. I've load from the magazine (always, regardless of ammunition type) and have had no issues, though I was cautious and loaded only one round in the mag the first time. It isn't ideal for me, but it was the most economical round my local FFL had the last time I was there. I'll shoot it up and not use it again until I have to.

I know people who don't handload and have exclusively shot Federal GM 168 gr though their NM for years and never had problems.

I have 200 rounds of WWB 147 gr FMJs sitting at home. It is my understanding that this was to be a mil-spec round, as IIRC it is labeled 7.62x51 NATO. As with all commercial ammo, I'll use precautions, but I don't expect any issues.

I also have 1000 pieces of mil-surp brass. I just need to get the appropriate dies and pick out a bullet and a powder to start loading. I am not trying to hotrod the rifle and regardless of the bullet and powder I choose will probably end up going with the aforementioned CCI primers, as per recommendation from pretty much every source I have read. And as usual, I will excise some precautions, but don't expect trouble.

That is my recommendation to you; be cautious, know where your muzzle is pointed when you chamber a round, maintain control of the weapon during firing, but don't be paranoid.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Millions of millions of rounds of Federal match ammo has been fired from SA, Inc. M1A rifles without issue. HAve there been some slamfires? Yes, but that's happened with Winchester, Federal, Hornady, Lake City, Remington and every other ammo maker. It happens.

Load it, shoot it and don't worry

I think that is bad advice.