This might be a stupid question. Wouldn’t a 10 mm make for a better suppressed pistol than the 45 ACP? Couldn’t it be loaded with the same weighted bullets? They could still be sub sonic with lower sectional density, right? What am I missing?
No love for a suppressed 10mm
- Thread starter beeb173
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WestKentucky
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Theory yeah… practical I’m not so sure. The issue with pistols is the same as rifles, but worse. You only have so much room for a bullet in the magazine. You can’t grow heavier very much without quickly impacting available case capacity. The 10mm shines in lighter and much much faster setups, but slowing one down and going heavy is much easier in a round that’s already in the ballpark of being subsonic with more available case capacity simply due to diameter of the case. I love a 10mm but I don’t really think subsonic is the right route for the round. Maybe in a carbine of some sort where you could go heavier without being limited by pistol magazine length… another reason for 10mm gas operated AR.
GooseGestapo
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Most loads for the 10mm are supersonic. The 10mm also operates at considerably higher pressure. Both of these contribute to the notable muzzle blast.
The .45acp operates at lower pressures and is generally subsonic (approximately 1040fps @ sea level).
Hence the .45 is generally a better candidate for suppression.
A 10mm CAN be loaded with heavier (220gr loads, loaded down) to be subsonic but then it’s no more powerful than the .45acp.
The 10mm isn’t nearly as plentiful historically as the 45acp., hence the lack of attention.
The higher sectional density of the bullets isn’t enough to make much difference.
(Higher is better, SD is a ratio of diameter to length. Higher tend to penetrate better.
The .45acp operates at lower pressures and is generally subsonic (approximately 1040fps @ sea level).
Hence the .45 is generally a better candidate for suppression.
A 10mm CAN be loaded with heavier (220gr loads, loaded down) to be subsonic but then it’s no more powerful than the .45acp.
The 10mm isn’t nearly as plentiful historically as the 45acp., hence the lack of attention.
The higher sectional density of the bullets isn’t enough to make much difference.
(Higher is better, SD is a ratio of diameter to length. Higher tend to penetrate better.
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WestKentucky
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Think you typed faster than you read there
GooseGestapo
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Thanks! Fixed it..
Sour Kraut
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45 ACP is much better suited to suppressed fire than 10mm.
N555
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The whole point of 10mm is to shoot roughly 45acp weight bullets supersonic.
Other things to consider.
10mm silencer selection kind of sucks.
They always cost more than 45acp ones.
10mm silencers are heavy, built to stand up to firing full power 10mm ammo with somewhere in the neighborhood of 15gr of powder per shot.
Other things to consider.
10mm silencer selection kind of sucks.
They always cost more than 45acp ones.
10mm silencers are heavy, built to stand up to firing full power 10mm ammo with somewhere in the neighborhood of 15gr of powder per shot.
crestoncowboy
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No point dumbing down 10mm to subsonic when the 40 is available and smaller frame/ same bullet
citizenconn
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As several have stated above, its harder to download the 10mm to subsonic whereas most factory .45 ACP loads are already subsonic or close to it. I don't know what the OP was planning to use the suppressed subsonic 10mm for. I have shot a suppressed HK UPS Tactical in .45 ACP and .45 Super. Very enjoyable in both cases. I enjoy shooting 10mm, but if I was looking to load it subsonic I'd just use my .45 ACP.
CapnMac
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Point of order: Hypersonic refers to Mach 5 and above, around 5582fps at sea level. 300BO is easily supersonic, but not hypersonic.
120mm discarding sabot tank rounds get to around 4200-4500fps, not quite hyper, but definitely decreasing the "hold" needed to aim them.
Mind, we do have a mess here in comparing three different ammos.
45acp 230gr FMJ is subsonic; but the 185gr ammo are typically right at the supersonic line (1044fps @ msl)
Not sure much of the 40sw FMJ is under that 1044 line; most of the HP ammo is over, as that helps expansion is various media.
I have this memory--probably faulty--that somebody had a 200gr 10mm factory load out there; I can't imagine it would have been very popular as a plinking round. The 180gr 10mm loads would be hard to suppress--other than the muzzle report.
Now, for ridiculous-easy to suppress (and given short shrift in the market) look no further than 32acp.
You could certainly load a 220gr .400 bullet in the 1000-1050 fps range and if you built the same size suppressor as you did for the 45 with clearance optimized for the 400 bullet it would probably be quieter on a meter but you'd prolly struggle to hear it with the ear. Thing is now your in a niche of a niche for a tiny gain.
Buffalo Bore 220 gr 10mm. 1150-1200 fps depending on the gun.
HEAVY 10MM OUTDOORSMAN Handgun Ammunition (buffalobore.com)
The point of loading them 1000-1050 is to keep them subsonic. The BB load with its wide nose being just barely supersonic is the recipe for a loud supersonic crack.
crestoncowboy
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But a 40 will reliably cycle at 1000fps. A 10mm unless lightly sprung may not. Ive shot a lot of 40 through 10mm over the last 20 years. More so than 10mm through 10mm. And its noticeably weaker. The slide is getting pretty sluggish at 180 GR 40 levels .
And why deal with the longer grip/heavier frame of the 10mm when the smaller gript/lighter frame 40 is the same bullet and capacity? The 40 wearing a suppressor will be plenty heavy for a 1000fps load. Be like shooting a 380. 180 grain white box 40 is like 1010fps. Be perfect and cheap.
The 10mm was loaded to 200gr at 1250 to begin with. Fbi dumbed it down.
Buzznrose
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Last week a guy shot a suppressed .40 S&W Kriss in our match. I think it was integrally suppressed. The whole barrel was probably 14”. Anyway, wow was it quiet. I had to watch the timer to call his last shot in case the timer didn’t register it. I’d guess 10MM loaded down would be similar?
So the downsides are
1) cost compared to the more established.45
2) almost would have to hand load because almost nothing is available subsonic
3) you’d have to set up the pistol just to run suppressed because switching would cause function issues.
The third sounds like the biggest hurdle. Why set up a 10mm that can only do what a .45 can do already? It won’t switch back w/o a spring change.
#3 is what I didn’t know. Thank you High Road.
1) cost compared to the more established.45
2) almost would have to hand load because almost nothing is available subsonic
3) you’d have to set up the pistol just to run suppressed because switching would cause function issues.
The third sounds like the biggest hurdle. Why set up a 10mm that can only do what a .45 can do already? It won’t switch back w/o a spring change.
#3 is what I didn’t know. Thank you High Road.
crestoncowboy
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A 200 @ 1050 will reliably cycle must any 10mm. That's about the best 10mm ammo we had commercially available for the past 20+ years. 200 grain .40 now can be bought loaded to 1000fps. No doubt that would function
One of the hotter loaded 10mm rounds we could buy was silvertips loaded to 175s @ "1200". And many of us have shot 40s through a 10mm for years. So they would function. Just weakly. Lol
Get down into 155s in 40 and you may have more trouble.
InTheSwamp
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No. As others have explained, the 45 operates at lower pressures/velocities.
Physics matter.
N555
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And the crack is louder when it's just barely super sonic.
