Noise levels in real life situations

[Double Naught Spy]

Funny how when pragmatic reality gets in the way, it is considered "plain stupid."

Please don't respond: "Is your hearing more important that your life". That's just plain stupid.

Edgy! Nothing stupid about making self defense decisions based on noise pressure where most every typical firearm is excluded for being too loud. That seems to be how the pros do it, right?

Don't bother telling me 22 lr is no good for home defense, 25 well placed rounds will take care of any 2 legged critter.

Honestly, I would have expected incognito Jerry Miculek to have a better understanding of firearms. Pretty much nobody else in the world is apt to make 25 well placed shots in a gunfight he would tell you that it isn't likely for him. The belief that is a reality shows an alarming naivete about gun fights. Besides, if you are that good, why are you wasting time and ammo on 25 well placed shots when you should not need more than 1 or 2?

skippy, if you are ever in a gun fight and do manage to actually land 25 well placed shots (and I know that will be a challenge because the well placed locations tend to shrink in size as caliber and power decrease) that you will likely to be the only known civilian to do so in a gun battle, ever, on an active threat.

 

[Reloadron]

Noise levels in real life situations

Does anyone know of a source for decibel levels cartridges from different length barrels?

Well while there is no shortage of charts out there most are about as useless as teats on a bull. I say this because a db (decibel) is merely a way to express a ratio, a logarithmic ratio which is just a way of saying non linear. Sound pressure is measured in db but so is power level and voltage level. As to sound the lowest hearing decibel level is 0 dB, which indicates nearly total silence and is the softest sound that the human ear can hear. On a side note the reason a decibel was chosen is because a bel is a large unit so a decibel (1/10 bel) is used. Here nor there and we can skip the math. The sound pressure level in db means nothing less a reference point. It's a matter of where the measurement is actually taken. Most charts fail to include that. How does sound reduce with distance? "For every doubling of distance, the sound level reduces by 6 decibels (dB), (e.g. moving from 10 to 20 meters away from a sound source). But the next 6dB reduction means moving from 20 to 40 meters, then from 40 to 80 meters for a further 6dB reduction".

Unless we know with respect to the muzzle where the measurement was taken we really have nothing. How loud is a gunshot? I guess it depends on what distance you are from the gunshot and at what point in a radius from a gunshot. Most charts do not seem to include that data.

At 72 years old my hearing is not what it once was. I never wore hearing protection in the woods while hunting and while my hunting days are done I am not about to worry about hearing protection during a home invasion.

Ron

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I never wore hearing protection in the woods while hunting and while my hunting days are done I am not about to worry about hearing protection during a home invasion.

You sound like one of those strange people who say stuff like your life is more important than your hearing. Can you even hear yourself?

 

[Reloadron]

You sound like one of those strange people who say stuff like your life is more important than your hearing. Can you even hear yourself?

Yeah, that would be me.

Ron

 

[lysanderxiii]

You sound like one of those strange people who say stuff like your life is more important than your hearing. Can you even hear yourself?

Well, if someone is attempting kick in my door, I am not going to take time out to put in my earplugs . . . .

 

[Meeks36]

Well, if someone is attempting kick in my door, I am not going to take time out to put in my earplugs . . . .

Muffs maybe? If time will allow.

 

[trackskippy]

If they are already kicking in the door, most will probably just be lucky to get to their gun.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I am all for using hearing protection if the situation and time warrant it. I have plugs all over the house and muffs in a couple locations, so access isn't a big problem. I might even put on safety glasses. The question is whether or not I have the extra seconds to do it. Think there is a prowler on the back porch? Yeah, I have time to put on electronic hearing protection and tell the wife to get ready to call 911, but first I am letting the dogs out and waiting to see what develops.

Something goes crash in the garage, then yeah, I will put in some plugs before heading into the garage, while telling the wife to get ready to call 911. I might even put on glasses and armor.

Someone is coming through a window? Hearing protection, glasses, armor aren't even on the list of things about which I am concerned. I may be shouting commands or situational information to my wife as I move to the threat, but my main concern is stopping the bad guy and you can bet that if I have a choice in either situation, I am not grabbing my least powerful and puny caliber guns because I am worried about my hearing. I will select something more powerful are more likely to stop whatever intruder/aggressor I am facing.

 

[hso]

kick in my door

Then make sure your door isn't easy to kick in. It certainly isn't difficult to do and costs less than a set of body armor and far less than a good pistol or an AR. It is better to keep the threat at bay to buy yourself time to prepare and summon help.

 

[HankB]

I don't have a suppressor, but I'm thinking - hard! - of getting one. I'm sort of waiting to see what the BATmen do later this year regarding "reinterpretation" of arm braces on AR-pattern pistols.

I wouldn't sneer at a .22 rimfire for defense - it's MUCH better than bare hands - but over the last 20 or 30 years the reliability of .22 rimfire ammo seems to have gone downhill. If you shoot a lot of .22s (and you should!) and haven't had any duds - congratulations. Quick, go out and buy a lotto ticket, you lucky dog. A 10/22 rifle with a longer magazine would be ideal if reliable, but if I chose a .22 for primary home defense, it would be something like a 10 shot S&W revolver so dealing with a dud round would just mean pulling the trigger again. (I've had duds, but I've never had a squib round get a bullet stuck in the barrel.) And I wouldn't use off-brand ammo.

Otherwise, a pistol caliber carbine with a heavy-for-caliber subsonic bullet will be somewhat less earsplitting than a .223. Operating at lower pressure and burning less than half the powder, by the time the bullet leaves the muzzle pressures - and hence, noise - should be lower. (Note I said "somewhat less earsplitting" not "quieter.")

 

[CapnMac]

How does sound reduce with distance?

From memory it's squirrely as you are graphing a cube-root function of logarithm values.

And, where measured really matters, as the Mach cone behind a supersonic bullet follows the bullet until its velocity decreases. So, bullets can be "loud" at significant distances from the muzzle.

That collapsing Mach cone is also why the sound impulse from a .223 is "greater" than .44magnum at the shooter's position.

This stuff has as many layers as an onion, and seems to bring as many tears in peeling away at it. Not at all helps with bunch of grumbly old pharts with only about half their hearing left and varying amounts of "EEEEE" in D♭ or E# as a companion.

 

[Zak Smith]

Almost all centerfire rifles will meter in the 165-170 dB range when measured at the mil spec position, 1 meter to the left/right of the muzzle.

 

[Archie]

If one does a web search for 'decibel levels' or 'decibel charts' one finds charts listing common sidearms.
I didn't look into the details of who completed the charts or how the levels were derived.
Just for background I am 72 years old - surprises me - and do have hearing loss from various ill considered activities. One of those activities is old age, but that probably doesn't count as ill considered.
In my current phase of life, I am convinced that most any circumstance requiring self defense will likely happen inside. Even louder. I have considered carrying a claymore (claidheamh) sword, but it is hard to conceal.

 

[stonebuster]

I don't remember a time when I didn't have tinnitus. I don't think about it unless its dead quiet and I'm trying to go to sleep. Or when someone mentions it. So thanks for whoever brought it up here. EEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Ditto. I've had it for so long, most of the time I don't notice it but right now I'm aware of it. Thirty years of daily operating or loading dynamite in close proximity to operating rock drills(wagon drills) did it for me. I'd be more worried about the flash/bang effecting my accuracy more than I would hearing loss. Hopefully I'll never find out.

 

[doubleh]

Being of antique vintage I grew up doing all the things that lead to hearing damage and I have it. I can still get by without man made help fairly well but have to ask some women that have high pitched voices and talk fast and softly to repeat themselves. When I turn the TV up loud enough to understand what is being said unless the program goes into to the whispers and loud background music that producers seem so fond of I get flack from the better half to turn down the sound. We have reached a compromise, she sets the sound where it is comfortable and I do the same with my ear buds that are blutoothed to the TV.

You want to quickly experience the difference barrel length makes with high noise lever cartridges. Fire a shot with a full house 357 thru an 8" barrel or even better, a 20" rifle barrel and then do the same with a 4 1/2" one. It's a quick education with only two shots or just use a 22 mag thru a rifle and then one with a 4 1/2" barreled handgun for a less expensive option. It is easy to tell with ear protection.

 

[ClicheBro]

It's 2022. If you don't have a short carbine with a can for this you're obsolete.

 

[Reloadron]

Just for background I am 72 years old - surprises me - and do have hearing loss from various ill considered activities.

I can relate to that also at 72 years old. Hearing loss can be attributed to much more than gunfire on my end.

Ron

 

[Archie]

I can relate to that also at 72 years old. Hearing loss can be attributed to much more than gunfire on my end.

Ron

In the Marine Corps, I had a license to drive 'up to and including' a five ton dump truck. All the six by six trucks had exhaust stacks just outside the driver's howdah (calling it a 'cab' would be an exaggeration) and the howdah did not have air conditioning. Then I drove a 240Z as my personal car for some years. 2x60 air conditioning. Worked as a lock smith and cut some keys with a rotary cutter, rather irritating noise.
I have had my hearing checked in the not so long ago and my hearing is 'normal' (probably the only thing normal about me). I was amazed. Then again, in my youth, I could hear a fly in tennis shoes sneaking across a Persian rug.
I've always been shy and retiring.

 

[Archie]

It's 2022. If you don't have a short carbine with a can for this you're obsolete.

Not only do I not have a suppressor, I have a flip phone vice a smart phone, I can read a map and name the five continents.
Yup. I'm obsolete.

 

[Reloadron]

In the Marine Corps, I had a license to drive 'up to and including' a five ton dump truck. All the six by six trucks had exhaust stacks just outside the driver's howdah (calling it a 'cab' would be an exaggeration) and the howdah did not have air conditioning. Then I drove a 240Z as my personal car for some years. 2x60 air conditioning. Worked as a lock smith and cut some keys with a rotary cutter, rather irritating noise.
I have had my hearing checked in the not so long ago and my hearing is 'normal' (probably the only thing normal about me). I was amazed. Then again, in my youth, I could hear a fly in tennis shoes sneaking across a Persian rug.
I've always been shy and retiring.

Getting strange here. You are 72 and drove six by six in the Marine Corps. I am 72 and drove same in the Marine Corps. During 70 ~ 72 I was at MCAS Cherry Point H&MS 20 in a line shack beside A6 and A6 trainers. No hearing protection. Go figure. That combined with guns.

Semper Fi
Ron

 

[Swampman]

first I am letting the dogs out and waiting to see what develops

Agreed!
I love my dogs and would hate to see 'em hurt or killed, but they have better noses, ears and (unaided) night vision. They also move a helluva lot faster than I do and don't need dentures to effectively bite an intruder.

I am not grabbing my least powerful and puny caliber guns because I am worried about my hearing

Yep!
I haven't attended a funeral yet where the guest of honor could pass even the most rudimentary hearing test...

 

[coloradokevin]

Please don't respond: "Is your hearing more important that your life". That's just plain stupid..

I know you don't want to hear that response, but you should think about the reality of that statement. Of course you should worry about protecting your hearing in shooting sports, in training, and even in hunting situations (which is an area where many people still ignore the risks of hearing damage). But, the odds are strong that you'll carry a gun for your entire life without having to fire a shot in self defense. If you do someday encounter the situation where you need to fire that shot, then it means that your life is in imminent danger of being lost if you fail to stop the threat. Hearing protection is important to consider, but there's no reasonable justification for choosing a substandard defensive caliber (like a .22LR) if this is a firearm you're planning to bet your life on.

By the way, AR pistols are among the loudest choices you could possibly come up with. If you want to get on the quieter end of the spectrum of things that would still work at home, I'd say go with something like a .300 BLK AR-15, and use heavy subsonic loads for it. It will still be loud enough to damage hearing without a suppressor, but it will be less damaging than some other choices. Or, you could just get a suppressor, and stop worrying about the ATF list... you already post publicly on this forum about guns. Unless you're covering your tracks carefully through the use of a VPN the ATF could figure out who you are if they really want to do so. But, a suppressed .300 BLK with subsonic loads is a dream setup for the things you're concerned with at home... pellet gun quiet.

As for CCW use, just carry a caliber with a legitimate track record for performance in defensive shootings. A .22LR isn't that choice, and the risk of hearing damage from a centerfire handgun cartridge being fired in self defense is far less than the risk of being killed if you fail to neutralize the threat that forced you to fire in the first place.

 

[Nuclear]

Maybe we are looking at this all wrong. Go full Dukes of Hazard and get a compound bow and practice putting 2+ broadhead tipped arrows into center of mass. Quiet, and it will certainly freak out a bad guy to see half an arrow sticking out of their chest. They get within melee distance and you pull out your modern steel replica of a Roman gladius to end their attack. I don’t know how to pull any of that off as concealed carry, though.

Seriously, I can somewhat understand the OP’s position, as I’m looking for a set of in the ear electronic hearing protection for when I am out and about. I have a little bit of hearing loss, so amplification (in certain frequencies) would be great.

 

[Mauser lover]

A .45 might even be less damaging to your ears than a .22 LR (both un-suppressed, both with short barrels). Nobody complains about the power of your chosen defensive arm if you choose a .45.

 

[Robert]

Four pages seems like more than enough. There are many good suggestions here so use what works best for you and your situation.