Non immigrant alien hand gun ownership in CA

[Riley11]

The question is aimed at a legal eagle who is familiar with the state or federal law on non immigrant alien legal gun ownership in CA.

Q. Honest and upright British citizen long standing visitor to CA USA for many years on vacation, usually stays for three weeks at a time.

Owns a property in CA holds substantial investment in CA. Wants to buy and own a handgun for target shooting for sporting purposes .

Is hand gun ownership possible for such a individual if a state if a hunting licence is purchased .

Does the 90 day stay rule apply to such a individual . If not is there any way round this rule.

 

[Odd Job]

Riley I looked into this because I also wanted to purchase firearms in the US. I live in London but visit the US every year for at least 3 weeks.
The short answer is no, you cannot buy firearms if you are a non-resident alien. It isn't a state restriction, it is federal. The hunting permit doesn't affect this at all.

You can USE firearms in some circumstances (might require a hunting permit) and you can sign up as the member of a range (you probably know that already though).

 

[dogtown tom]

Riley11 The question is aimed at a legal eagle who is familiar with the state or federal law on non immigrant alien legal gun ownership in CA.

Q. Honest and upright British citizen long standing visitor to CA USA for many years on vacation, usually stays for three weeks at a time.

Owns a property in CA holds substantial investment in CA. Wants to buy and own a handgun for target shooting for sporting purposes .

Is hand gun ownership possible for such a individual if a state if a hunting licence is purchased .

Does the 90 day stay rule apply to such a individual . If not is there any way round this rule.

California is its own kettle of fish....but Federal law permits a nonimmigrant alien to acquire a firearm from a licensed dealer as long as:
-They are in the US legally
-They can provide documents that establish 90 days continuous residency
-They can show documentation to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition....a valid state issued hunting license or a letter from the US Attorney General granting a waiver.

(a "nonimmigrant alien" is someone in the USA on a student , temporary worker or tourist visa)

Currently there is no "way round" the 90 day requirement. ATF recently published notice that they will do away with the 90 day requirement as they just realized there is no such requirement in the Gun Control Act of 1968. BUT.....until the new regs are in place the current regulation has the force of law. Here is the ATF notice: http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2011/12/122211-atf-open-letter-state-of-residence.pdf

Odd Job Riley I looked into this because I also wanted to purchase firearms in the US. I live in London but visit the US every year for at least 3 weeks.
The short answer is no, you cannot buy firearms if you are a non-resident alien. It isn't a state restriction, it is federal. The hunting permit doesn't affect this at all.

Wrong. You were denied because you could not provide proof of ninety days residency if you were only in the US for three weeks.
I regularly transfer firearms to nonimmigrant aliens who provide the easy to get hunting license and proof of ninety days residency.

 

[Odd Job]

Wrong. You were denied because you could not provide proof of ninety days residency if you were only in the US for three weeks.
I regularly transfer firearms to nonimmigrant aliens who provide the easy to get hunting license and proof of ninety days residency.

That's why I told him it was a short answer.
He is not resident, the maximum stay he has under the visa waiver programme is 90 days, how is he supposed to provide proof of residency for 90 days when on day 91 he is back on the plane heading home? (Not to mention the fact that he doesn't spend 90 days there in the first place?)

 

[Riley11]

Thank you all for your time and kind advice... Great site.. I travel so often to the USA and spend so much money there I think personally uplift the US economy .LOL... One would think the authorities would be a little kinder to law abiding Non immigrant Aliens who want to persue a hobby they are not allowed to enjoy in thier own country. A country incidently that calls it self the mother of all democracies ..Dont believe it . Its a nonsense.. Our politicians are as self seeking and cuppoupt as yours.. What is it the American constitution includes in the bill of rights it provides to its own citizens. I think it is the Rights, Amendments ... Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. I just wish they would share a little of that with us Non immigrant law abiding Aliens that keep the current sluggish American economy moving.

Let's hope "Odd Job" they change the 90 day day rule soon. Is been a year already since the advisory. I can see no movement on it so far.. I may get too old to persue my hobby .. However they say the wheels of federal bureaucracy move very slowly.

I am told hope is eternal. It may be too late for me before they decide that it is a good idea to change the rule , However it may help others pursue this legitimate hobby if they do change the 90 day rule. For that i would be am grateful for others that might come after me. Americans are so lucky. Support the NRA allways and never let self seeking hopeless and useless corporate bought politicians in Washington dictate to disarm you of your rights granted to you by your forefathers and guaranteed under your constitution. God bless the good ol USA and the good,the bad, and the you name it.

 

[dogtown tom]

Riley11 .....Let's hope "Odd Job" they change the 90 day day rule soon. Is been a year already since the advisory.

Nope....its been a little more than three weeks.

 

[hermannr]

Question: When did the ATF put this 90 day non-rule in place? I've never heard of it...but then it probably applies only to an FFL anyway. The reson I ask is because most hunting trips are considerably less than 90 days.

Here in WA there are other reasons to be a non-immigrent alien in posession of firearms. Because of what this question was about...does California have an exemption such as "member of a sport shoot club"?

WA does not require you to be in a specific compitition, just a member of a club..not necessarily in WA, to qualify for that exemption.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Question: When did the ATF put this 90 day non-rule in place? I've never heard of it...but then it probably applies only to an FFL anyway. The reson I ask is because most hunting trips are considerably less than 90 days.

Not sure when it was enacted. The 90 day requirement does apply to private party sales because it is actually a part of the definition of residing in a state found in 27 CFR 478.11. Since, by Federal law, we can only sell/give guns to private parties who reside in the same state, and since 90 days is part of the definition of state residency, it applies to private party transactions as well.

We can loan firearms to non-immigrant aliens who possess a hunting license under an exemption to firearms possession in 18 USC 922 (y).

It will be good to see this requirement repealed.

 

[Odd Job]

One would think the authorities would be a little kinder to law abiding Non immigrant Aliens who want to persue a hobby they are not allowed to enjoy in thier own country.

That's a whole different discussion, it has to be a two way street as far as I am concerned. I am not sure how easy it would be for a US citizen to get a UK firearms certificate (assuming he was here for more than a few months on a student visa for example). I'll have to check that out as a matter of interest.

 

[NavyLCDR]

That's a whole different discussion, it has to be a two way street as far as I am concerned.

Self defense is a human right, not merely the right of a citizen of a government. Just because your government doesn't recognize your right to self protection does not mean that our government should not.

 

[Riley11]

In the US your upright law abiding citizens have a wholly hard fought right to bear arms legally under your constitution. The US has an arsenal of firearms available to it's citizens legally and illegally. We in the UK do not have a written constitution that offers us such freedom. Every issue has to be tested in court and decided by a judiciary that is independent of the legislature. We still try to change the law legally so we can have the right back to our guns .. I can tell you it is expensive hard fought for legal battle as we are up against the state.. (What we call our parliament) Our judiciary sets precedent .A charter for lawyers to rule .. Our politicians do not trust our citizens to bear arms . They will only arm us to fight what politicians percieve as our enemies about to invade our shores. ( yeah and pigs will fly) We in the UK do not have the right to bear arms . We were a few years ago able to able to join gun clubs and apply to the police to hold gun licences for any gun. Sadly one mentally deranged individual changed that scenerio forever he decided to take child hostages in a primary school and shoot 15 children in Dunblane in Scotland . He was a licenced Gun owner .. A knee jerk and emotional issue followed and the then Tony Blair led labour government banned all hand guns for individuals in the UK. Only shotguns for farmers and small bore .22 rifles for farm use allowed. Owning shotguns for clay pigeon sport shooting is possible with strict criteria set for licenes issued by the police. To get one you have to be as good as God. Yet we still get demonic individuals with licenced shotguns shooting people all the time here . Sadly the mad and the bad are always with us as is your experience in many states in the USA every day proves. Guns dont kill ..People do.Guns used responsibly and with care by sane people can be a great hobby. Our guns have been taken away .. If not for your high profile NRA lobby. Your guns will be taken away too . American dont know how lucky they are . They just take it for granted. . However your law abiding cousins over the pond and your brothers in arms are deprived of thier hobby. Why do you think i bought a home in CA and have invested so heavily in your great country. I just hope you will be kind to me and let me enjoy my hobby when i visit with you several times a year. Is that too much to ask?Just as a matter of interest . Our whole country will fit into the state of Texas five times . That just shows you how we Brits have punched well above our weight for centuries . Your independence day celebrations proved once Americans could not wait to rid themselves of us . However happy now we are the best of friends.Gosh to think the French once helped you against us .. Yuckky..LOL Just kidding..If we won the war of independence Gosh just think Tony Blair could have been your President or would you have preffered Margaret Thatcher? LOL

 

[NavyLCDR]

However your law abiding cousins over the pond and your brothers in arms are deprived of thier hobby. Why do you think i bought a home in CA and have invested so heavily in your great country.

If gun ownership/possession is that important to you, then why did you buy a home in California?

 

[natman]

Right now the 90 day residency rule is a show stopper.

However, even if ATF drops the requirement, California might have something similar in state law. I do know that they require more stringent proof of residency than Federal law. If CA has its own requirement, it may not go away when the Federal requirement does.

In addition, a hunting license is easy to renew, but it requires a Hunter Education certificate to get. This requires a 10 hour class or completing an online course and a 4 hour class.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/huntered/faq.aspx

You'll also need a Handgun Safety Certificate, but that only requires money and passing a simple test. But there's this:

Are there any minimum qualifications/requirements for a person who wants to take the Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) test?

The only requirements are that the Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) applicant must be at least 18 years of age and must present clear evidence of identity and age by presenting a California Driver's License or California Department of Motor Vehicles Identification Card.

I don't know how literally they require CA ID or if a passport would do.

 

[Quiet]

The CA DROS system requires a CA DL or a CA ID or Mil ID with orders for CA.
No other form of ID is acceptabe.

Without one of the three mentioned forms of ID, a CA FFL dealer can not transfer a firearm to that person.

In order to transfer a handgun, the CA FFL dealer must be presented with proof of residency.
Proof of residency can be accomplished with valid CA vehicle registration or 3 months of utility bills.