Norinco found at Bhutto shooting site

[northeaster]

Folks, the wires report that a Norinco (caliber not specified) was found at the scene of Bhutto's assassination. This report was posted in the forum.m1911.org discussion board, and got deleted by the over-aggressive PC moderator there with the following message:

"Norinco makes a lot more than just 1911s. This is off-topic. This forum is to discuss firearms, not assassinations."

Well, it so happens that firearms used in assassinations are a very interesting historical topic. How many people would ever be interested in the Kennedy rifle, or the Archduke Ferdinand pistol, for example. Or how about the Makarov that Saddam was reported to have when he was captured in his rat hole.

Since this cannot be discussed where it got first brought up, how about a free and open discussion here? This is definitely firearms related, is it not?

 

[foob]

What did you want to discuss though. We don't know the model, we don't know anything other than the make really. With all the conflicting reports, we don't even know if she died from bullet wounds, the explosive, or hitting her head on the car.

 

[Constantine-p89]

I think he want's to talk about the 1911

 

[LubeckTech]

I remember hearing that the revolver Jack Ruby used was auctioned off bringing somewhere between $35k - $50k. This is something I vaugely remember reading about it and have my doubts about since it was used in a crime I don't see how it would end up in a private collection.
I wonder if the RG-14 used in the Regan shooting is floating around somewhere out there - the guy who shot Regan is now out of the mental hospital and maybe he would like to buy it as a souvenier for Jody Foster!!

 

[CannonFodder]

Ya know, it would make an interesting museum exhibit - The Most Important Firearms of All Time.

Say...

Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano
Princep's pistol
Goering's Browning Hi-Power
James Earl Ray's rifle
Hinkley's pistol
Mark david Chapman's S&W .38
Burr's duelling pistol
The Kalashnikov prototype
Etc...

It might tend toward ghoulishness... but it would also be a great showcase of the "shots heard round the world."

 

[GTSteve03]

Don't forget Booth's .44 Derringer.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

This is something I vaugely remember reading about it and have my doubts about since it was used in a crime I don't see how it would end up in a private collection.

Ruby's .38 is in fact in circulation and comes up at auctions on occasion. Hinckley's .22 is still in government control.

 

[Onmilo]

I don't know what wires you follow but it was also reported that she wasn't shot but died as a result of hitting her head.

There is a cel-phone video in circulation showing the suspect handgun and it is clearly an Austrian made Steyr M9 of which Norinco does not produce any copies.
What is implicated is the possibility that Iran provided at the very least weapons to the group or individual that perpetrated this assassination.

 

[doc2rn]

Didn't we go over this? It was assuredly a Steyr M9. That much was certain. We showed the after images of the gun on the ground and I had them blown up for comparison ( I thought it could have been an HK). It was definately a Steyr. Sounds like more Gov. cover up if you ask me. Governments kill more people than criminals, it is a statistical fact. You take one war on terror + Billions of US Tax dollars = Corrupt Gov. willing to do anything to stay in power.

 

[Gator]

Ah, news flash: Bhutto wasn't shot. So how is this on topic?

 

[doc2rn]

Gator

Are you saying the guy who jumped on the back of her vehicle put two shots in her with spray didn't shoot her? This has been viewed a million times already. You could stick by what the Gov says it was concussion from the blast. Either way The guys gun was a Steyr, it still makes for inconsistencies in the Gov's story.

 

[foob]

If I was Musharraf I would have killed her, and blamed the islamic extremists, to further consolidate my power and win the elections.

If I was an islamic extremist, I may or may not have killed her, since I would hate Musharraf even more, and wouldn't want him to remain in power.

Both have motives. The way the government handled security and the investigation, even if everything were blunders, make any of their claims dubious.

 

[Gator]

Fine. Shot, blown up, stabbed, poisoned, whatever. How is this on topic?

 

[northeaster]

The on-topic aspect is the investigation and possible involvement of a Norinco pistol or other weapon in the assassination. I realize the wire article is not conclusive, and I know cause of death has not yet been established. But the "Bhutto Norinco" may become another icon (of admittedly questionable repute) in the murky world of public figure assassinations.

I am certainly not trying to stir up pro or anti Musharaf sentiments here. I have a certain optimism that the Scotland Yard investigation will uncover the truth if the inquiry is not interfered with.

So, if you folks think this is a topic unrelated to guns, then I guess the messages will shrivel up and the topic will go stale. I was trying to speak for the "historical gun" side of the subject . . . for what it is worth (maybe not much?).

 

[windjammer]

Well, it so happens that firearms used in assassinations are a very interesting historical topic. How many people would ever be interested in the Kennedy rifle, or the Archduke Ferdinand pistol, for example. Or how about the Makarov that Saddam was reported to have when he was captured in his rat hole.

================================================
I never knew what Saddam was carring when he was caught. Most of the time when I saw him shooting his pistol, it looked like a Browning HP.

I understand Bush was presented Saddams pistol. Wonder if he will take it with him when he leaves the White House? ( I would ) if him.

 

[Limeyfellow]

Princep's pistol

Incidently he used a Fabrique Nationale M 1910 created by none other than Browning. It currently resides in the Museum of Military History, Vienna, Austria after being found in a monastery in Vienna a few years ago.

Nice pistol though.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Norinco pistols and Tokarevs are VERY popular in Pakistan. Calling someone "TT" or "Tok" is an adjective for "tough guy". Saying she was shot with a Norinco is akin to saying, "she was shot with one of the most common guns in Pakistan" ie, "she could have been shot by anybody".

That's like in the early 90s when Saudi terrorists were reported driving a Chevy Caprice... the most popular car in Saudi Arabia at the time... all it meant was that you were not going to find the guy you were looking for.