Nothing Good Happens After Ten O'Clock

[Trunk Monkey]

Something I notice on almost every gun forum that I participate in is that people talk about how to resolve a conflict or how to react to conflict but I never seem to hear people talking about how to avoid a conflict in the first place.

I have worked almost exclusively nights since 2003. First in a factory and then since 2008 as a security guard. Even when I worked in the factory I would come home from work between 2 and 3 o clock in the morning be surprised because my neighborhood looked like the set of "The Walking Dead".

There were always random people just wandering through my neighborhood at all hours of the night. Later when I became a security guard I realized it was all over the city. After doing security for awhile it became apparent to me that at about 10 PM the sewers open up and the vermin crawl out. I watch it happen every single night.

I have a friend who worked in the New Mexico criminal justice system first as a prosecutor and then later as a public defender for almost 30 years. Over that time he's developed a concept that he calls The Citizen's Hour.

Based on his experience with hundreds if not thousands of trials he has observed that if you're out of your home after 9 o clock at night your chances of being involved in a homicide sky rocket.

When someone posts a thread about an unnecessary late night trip to Walmart it always surprises me when they're shocked that they had a run in with a crackhead in the parking lot. That's like going to McDonald's and being surprised that they sell hamburgers.

I remember reading a thread on the S&W forum about a guy that was asking what the best way to carry his gun when he went to the ATM after dark. The guy actually got bent when when almost everyone that responded told him not to go to the the damn ATM in the first place. I mean, come on man it's a watering hole. People literally go there to find people to rob. Why would you go to some place that you know is high risk if it's at all avoidable?

I'm not saying that I'm never out of my house after 10 o clock at night. In fact, I'm generally out of my house after 10 at night because that's when I work but on my days off unless I have a reason to be out there I'm not,because I've seen the kind of people who are. Just following that one rule cut about 90% of the drama out of my life.

 

[skoro]

Exactly...

The nogoodniks tend to operate after dark and seem to prefer "convenience" stores and ATMs. As a result, I only go to the local one in broad daylight. And very infrequently. I always fill up with gas between about 9 am and 4 pm, unless I'm on a road trip and have to fill up when the vehicle demands. Even then, I make sure to top off the tank before sunset.

Yes, I'm a boring old senior citizen. I understand that young folks like to gather at clubs and stay out late. Well, in years that don't include a global pandemic, anyway.

 

[George P]

Based on his experience with hundreds if not thousands of trials he has observed that if you're out of your home after 9 o clock at night your chances of being involved in a homicide sky rocket.

When someone posts a thread about an unnecessary late night trip to Walmart it always surprises me when they're shocked that they had a run in with a crackhead in the parking lot. That's like going to McDonald's and being surprised that they sellhamburgers.

You mean like the folks who complain about the dangers of going to a Waffle House at 2AM?

 

[Trunk Monkey]

You mean like the folks who complain about the dangers of going to a Waffle House at 2AM?

It doesn't matter if you go to the Waffle House at 7 a.m. you're risking a coronary just being there

 

[George P]

Scattered smothered and covered, peppered and country............YUM.............

 

[Ironicaintit]

Waffle House! Home of the translucent ham steaks! Yuk, never understood the appeal.

I’m often out after 10 pm, and I’ve seen a lot of crazy crap. Then again, I’ve seen craziness happen at 8am too.

 

[George P]

Maybe, but their hash browns and eggs over are just fine.

 

[Meeks36]

I worked at walmart over night 10pm-7am. And between the hours of 12-5 the weirdo's came out. This was in the burbs. Not a big city. 45 min south of atlanta. I never knew what I would see. Strippers, drunks, meth heads, Leo's, and Creeper's. It was never a dull moment.

 

[Alex Clayton]

While it "used to" be like that here the "walking dead" have long ago started coming out in day light now. Due in part to the lax enforcement the voters decided they wanted. Part of it due to the same people decided they no longer wanted people who "should be" locked up to remain free. So now you see a lot of what I call "drug zombies" wandering around all day long. Many of them no longer feel the need to only come out when the lights go out. In a way I often find it amusing. Many of the people who have been voting for this for a long time I now getting to see the "benefits" of what they asked for and have to live with it. <shrug>
Work nights, for a long time had a part time job I would go to some days. Used to stop at a Mom &Pop donuts shop. Run by a family from SE Asia.VERY hard working. One morning I walk in, see a homeless woman sitting at a table. Don't know if they were ignoring her or if they were waiting for law enforcement to chase her off which can often take a LONG time. She had MRSA all over one side of her face. Many do not know what this is when they see it. HIGHLY contagious. I called over one of the owners and explained the stuff on the woman's face was something they did not want siting at their table so they would at least know to be careful of her and clean up after she left. Many who "think" they are safe at 9:00 in the morning one day run into one of these zombies and often are shocked when they have a close call. I of course LONG ago stopped going to an ATM middle of the night when bank is closed but, I don't let my guard down at noon and the place is open if I stop at one.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I guess this whole thread just depends on perspective.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Maybe, but their hash browns and eggs over are just fine.

To be perfectly honest I don't think I've eaten in a Waffle House in 20 years. So it's probably a completely different restaurant than what I remember. There's actually one right across the street from where I live. Like I literally could walk out my front door throw a rock into the parking lot but I just never wanted eat there bad enough to walk across the street. Unless things have changed drastically since the last time I ate there there is nothing that The Waffle House makes that my wife can't make better here.

AND there are no homeless people hanging out in my kitchen.

 

[Alex Clayton]

To be perfectly honest I don't think I've eaten in a Waffle House in 20 years. So it's probably a completely different restaurant than what I remember. There's actually one right across the street from where I live. Like I literally could walk out my front door throw a rock into the parking lot but I just never wanted eat there bad enough to walk across the street. Unless things have changed drastically since the last time I ate there there is nothing that The Waffle House makes that my wife can't make better here.

AND there are no homeless people hanging out in my kitchen.

When I was single and drank a lot I would often stop at one to eat. If REALLY hungry and well lubed, food seemed great. If I stopped in one sober I would often wonder how I ate there the night before
I at one time dated a gal who worked the night shift at one of the well known 24 hour places. The premium shift was the Friday and Saturday night shift. When they kicked everyone out of the bars the place would fill up with hungry people who thought the food was best thing they had eaten since Moms breakfast. She made more in tips on those two nights than I made working all damn week

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I've brought this topic up on other forums and it's funny to me that every time I do someone has to comment about sketchy people they've run into in the day time OR someone posts some variation of "By GAWD I'm not going to live MY life in fear. I go where I want when I want and again, if that's you fine. I'm not trying to change your life. I'm just trying to communicate a pattern that I've seen in mine.

I said it in another thread but I used to work downtown in the bar district and WITHOUT FAIL the craziness started at about 10 PM. That's when the assaults started happening, that's when the fights started to happen, that's when we started having to deal with the drunks. it happened Every. Single. Night.

I'm not saying that you turn into a pumpkin at the stroke of midnight but what I am saying is that after 10 pm or so there are a lot more street rats than law abiding citizens out and the odds only get worse as the night goes on. It's funny to me but I posted this discussion on another forum and one respondent actually said when he was younger he went out at that time of night looking for people to beat the crap out of.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you don't have to agree with my conclusions but please don't try to tell me that what I've watched happen every single light for over a decade doesn't happen.

 

[DocRock]

Well put.

 

[JohnKSa]

John Correia on Active Self Protection occasionally mentions the Rules of Stupid. I don't know if he came up with them originally, but that's where I first heard them.

Don't go stupid places at stupid times to do stupid things with stupid people.

It's a good rule.

By GAWD I'm not going to live MY life in fear. I go where I want when I want

There are people who carry a gun to reduce their risk, there are people who carry a gun so they can do risky things and still feel relatively safe, and there are people who don't understand the difference.

 

[Alex Clayton]

I've brought this topic up on other forums and it's funny to me that every time I do someone has to comment about sketchy people they've run into in the day time OR someone posts some variation of "By GAWD I'm not going to live MY life in fear. I go where I want when I want and again, if that's you fine. I'm not trying to change your life. I'm just trying to communicate a pattern that I've seen in mine.

I said it in another thread but I used to work downtown in the bar district and WITHOUT FAIL the craziness started at about 10 PM. That's when the assaults started happening, that's when the fights started to happen, that's when we started having to deal with the drunks. it happened Every. Single. Night.

I'm not saying that you turn into a pumpkin at the stroke of midnight but what I am saying is that after 10 pm or so there are a lot more street rats than law abiding citizens out and the odds only get worse as the night goes on. It's funny to me but I posted this discussion on another forum and one respondent actually said when he was younger he went out at that time of night looking for people to beat the crap out of.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you don't have to agree with my conclusions but please don't try to tell me that what I've watched happen every single light for over decade doesn't happen.

There is no way around the simple facts that many places are "no place to be" at night. Some are of course far worse than others. Our downtown area has LONG been like this. When I was younger and still liked to go out I refused to go to the clubs down there. Several friends did. Often told me of al the "fun" I was missing. I would tell them no thanks, I will pass. Did have other places I did go but not there. Of course over the years one after another of the "fun joints" would get shut down by the state when they had too many people get shot. Sooner or later someone would open another one down there and I had zero interest in going to see them. In the larger cities I often feel really bad for some of the people who are "trapped" in some of these area's. Too poor to easily get away and feel like their home is a prison as it's not safe to venture out after the sun goes down. Of course most of them vote for the same people who made the mess so <shrug>
As for someone going out at night looking for a fight? Hey why not, they keep the ER workers and the funeral home workers in a job I guess so to each his own.

 

[.455_Hunter]

You are fine to express your opinion, but they only thing I am going to call out is:

... but what I am saying is that after 10 pm or so there are a lot more street rats than law abiding citizens out and the odds only get worse as the night goes on.

That maybe true in some certain locations, but when I hit my local Walmart at 11:30 or midnight, there are plenty law-abiding working stiffs like me there, and the "normal" people definitely outnumber the thugs.

 

[Alex Clayton]

You are fine to express your opinion, but they only thing I am going to call out is:



That maybe true in some certain locations, but when I hit my local Walmart at 11:30 or midnight, there are plenty law-abiding working stiffs like me there, and the "normal" people definitely outnumber the thugs.

Yep. Before the great plague my Wife used to love to get up in the middle of the night to shop at the local Wally. Because it was full of workers doing their thing and just a fraction of the normal shoppers. So she could get around the store without the crowds. Of course there was always some street scum in the parking lot but she of course never went to the place without a gun. Going in the middle of the night she could park right in front too so did not have to cart her stuff to the south 40 parking lot like when it was busy.
They are not open 24 hours here now due to the plague. Another of the strange ideas they came up with I did not get. Seems like if they want people to stay distance why limit the hours and force them to pack in only during shorter hours, but I don't shop there any more anyway so matters little to me

 

[.455_Hunter]

There are people who carry a gun to reduce their risk, there are people who carry a gun so they can do risky things and still feel relatively safe, and there are people who don't understand the difference.

I would add "and people who are unable to recognize the nuances between the two extremes."

Like I said, its all a matter of prospective. One person's "stupid thing at a stupid place at a stupid time" is another person's "reasonable thing at a reasonable place at a reasonable time that fits their life situation and experience".

For an example, as Alex mentioned, hitting Walmart in the off-hours was a good thing since the COVID show started. Buying groceries for my family and my elderly parents, it made far more sense for me to go later in the evening, have reduced crowds, access to new stock, and reduce time in store than fretting about a increased chance of getting mugged in the parking lot.

 

[Jeff White]

For an example, as Alex mentioned, hitting Walmart in the off-hours was a good thing since the COVID show started. Buying groceries for my family and my elderly parents, it made far more sense for me to go later in the evening, have reduced crowds, access to new stock, and reduce time in store than fretting about a increased chance of getting mugged in the parking lot.

All of the Walmart’s around here have been closing at 8:30 pm since Covid.

 

[.455_Hunter]

All of the Walmart’s around here have been closing at 8:30 pm since Covid.

The earlier closing didn't start here until things had been brewing for awhile, but even then, by the time I got done shopping, checked out, loaded, driven the 30 minutes to my parents, unloaded, put stuff away, helped them with a couple chores, and drove 30 minutes back home, I was past the 10pm witching hour by quite a bit, especially if I had to stop at a gas station on the way home.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

John Correia on Active Self Protection occasionally mentions the Rules of Stupid. I don't know if he came up with them originally, but that's where I first heard them.

Don't go stupid places at stupid times to do stupid things with stupid people.

I think I've heard him credit John Farnham as the author

You are fine to express your opinion,

I feel much better now knowing you approve.

For an example, as Alex mentioned, hitting Walmart in the off-hours was a good thing since the COVID show started. Buying groceries for my family and my elderly parents, it made far more sense for me to go later in the evening, have reduced crowds, access to new stock, and reduce time in store than fretting about a increased chance of getting mugged in the parking lot.

Around here homeless people camp out in Walmart parking lots at night. It's been my actuall experience that homeless people are almost always trouble. Having said that the Walmart's around here are closed on third shift because they're disinfecting the stores from the Kung Flu.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I understand that there are exceptions to every rule and I understand that there are animals in the jungle who die of old age AND I never said that being out after 10 O'Clock guarantees that you'll be a victim (Although, the longer you do it the better your odds become.). What I said was that being out after 10 greatly increases your odds of becoming a victim.

I also understand that there are people (C'est Moi) who work nights but if you're in a factory you're not on the street. If you're stocking a Walmart you're not on the street.

If you're having sex in your car in a parking garage (True story bro) or hanging out at the far end of a Walmart parking lot at 2am because you forgot Moon Pies for Junior's lunch and your wife wants "to get her steps in" you are the epitome of doing stupid things at stupid times in stupid places.

Even though I know this is going to stir the pot I'm also going to say that closing bars is a pretty stupid thing to do too.

 

[JohnKSa]

I would add "and people who are unable to recognize the nuances between the two extremes."

The two things are not extremes. They are two halves of a continuum; somewhere in the middle they meet.

One person's "stupid thing at a stupid place at a stupid time" is another person's "reasonable thing at a reasonable place at a reasonable time that fits their life situation and experience".

The contrast between carrying a handgun to allow riskier behavior vs. to reduce risk isn't the same thing as the rules of stupid, they're two different concepts.

Yes, of course, circumstances sometimes dictate that one must balance risks against benefits, accepting, for example, the risk of an unintentional discharge vs. the benefit of carrying a handgun for self-defense. Or accepting the risk of shopping later in the evening against the benefit of reducing the risk of greater exposure to disease. When it makes sense to accept risk (as it does to some extent every day in various ways) a prudent person takes steps to mitigate the risk. For example, I drive a considerable distance to work--raising my risk of having a traffic accident--and raising my risk in other ways. I mitigate those risks in various ways. And yes, that risk/benefit balance might not make good sense for someone else--perhaps not even for me in another couple of decades.

But that's different from choosing to engage in behaviors (specifically voluntary behaviors) that generate unnecessary/unbalanced risk simply because one feels they have a way to mitigate the risk.

Going grocery shopping later in the evening to try to reduce disease exposure is a reasonable risk balance for some folks. Grocery shopping is an important benefit--it's not really voluntary, and different people run different risks from disease.

Here are some contrasts: Going to the neighborhood grocery store at 10pm on a weekday to minimize disease exposure vs. going to a convenience store at 2AM on Friday night to buy a soda. Getting gas on the way to work for a 2nd shift job vs. on the way home.

 

[CDW4ME]

If I'm out at/after 10PM either I'm going to the hospital or taking someone there, something like that.

That being said, I assume the nefarious people typically out at/after 10PM are mobile and not completely nocturnal, may show up wherever, whenever.
The gun I'd prefer in hand in a "bad" area at midnight is not reduced because I'm in a "good" area at 9AM. (Glock 23 minimum).