Avoidance As A Strategy

[Trunk Monkey]

There is a discussion going on at another forum that I'm a member of in which the poster who started the thread stopped at a rest area for lunch and decided to use the bathroom before he left. On his way to the bathroom he had a run-in with a Crackhead who he suspects was trying to rob him.

Now that's just the background. The point that I'm trying to make is that the guy got really upset what I commented that rest areas are known trouble spots and that a lot of reputable trainers suggest avoiding them completely if it all possible.

I realize that I probably go a little overboard on this but I make it a rule to avoid places that I know are trouble. I realize that I can't avoid all of the trouble spots but rest areas, ATMs (really always but especially after dark.) I don't close bars and even when I'm working nights I stay out of convenience stores in the wee hours. I realize this isn't exactly the same thing but when I was working nights as a roving guard there was a place way out in the Southeast corner of the county that I had to go check every night and every night I planned route my so that I would head out there at around 0145 and stay there till about 0230 and be getting back to town around 0300. After the bar rush was off the road.

So my question is how much of a part does risk avoidance play in your overall self defense strategy?

 

[FL-NC]

The easiest way to find trouble is to place yourself in the middle of it and draw attention to yourself.

 

[bearcreek]

Now that's just the background. The point that I'm trying to make is that the guy got really upset what I commented that rest areas are known trouble spots and that a lot of reputable trainers suggest avoiding them completely if it all possible.

Which trainers? Don't think I've heard any of the ones who I've trained under say to avoid rest areas in general.

I realize that I probably go a little overboard on this

I would agree As a parent of young children, I don't think it's possible to completely avoid rest areas if a person travels the interstates, especially the turnpikes. The alternative is often pulling off to the side of the road, which is more dangerous by a giant margin.

So my question is how much of a part does risk avoidance play in your overall self defense strategy?

Paying attention to what's going on (or "situational awareness) plays a significant part. Simply avoiding places that generally have a higher percentage of trouble can certainly help, but it can also cause you to miss out on a lot. There are few things in life worth doing that don't involve some level of risk. It's a balancing act.

 

[hso]

Avoidance of conflict is a core goal. That can include areas known to increase the risk of conflict.

Rest areas my not universally be risky areas, but there are lots of reports of criminal activity at rest areas. That doesn't mean they're a problem overall, but it is wise to use situational awareness when you pull into them (are there lots of other people, is it staffed, does it look clean and well maintained) to decide if you're going to stop or go on to the Arbie's down the road.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Just to clarify the emphasis of that particular poster's story was rest areas. There are other places that are trouble spots.

As for specifically rest stops though there are things that I look for. Like HSO said if there several other people there. If there are that's one thing if not I'd seriously consider moving on.

I stopped in a rest area in Idaho I think and had some lot lizard try to pick me up. I stopped in another one, because I was falling asleep at the wheel and I woke up and some guy was trying to get in my car. I don't even remember where that happened. That may skew my perception but generally speaking I don't stop at them unless there's not another option.

 

[edwardware]

I realize that I probably go a little overboard on this but I make it a rule to avoid places that I know are trouble.

No, I don't think that's overboard. It's further than many people are willing to go, especially people who haven't contemplated the less heroic, more gore-spattered life-altering aspects of violence.

As a parent of young children, I don't think it's possible to completely avoid rest areas if a person travels the interstates, . . . There are few things in life worth doing that don't involve some level of risk. It's a balancing act.

Balderdash; it is possible.

It is also a balancing act, and you're chosen a different balance. That's ok, just don't fall into the mistaken assumption that anyone more conservative than you is overboard.

 

[Kleanbore]

So my question is how much of a part does risk avoidance play in your overall self defense strategy?

The great majority.

 

[CDW4ME]

So what you're saying is, don't shop at Wal-Mart.

 

[entropy]

I'm done for then; I work there.

When one cannot avoid a 'trouble spot', one does have to amp up the situational awareness level, and mentally prepare oneself for the higher probability of having to ward off an attack.

It isn't just kids that require regular bathroom stops. Some of us men of a certain age need them too. Ref: The First Rule of being an Old Man.

Mentally rehearsing methods of how to deescalate an 'interview' beforehand, or better yet role playing them, is a good idea, and always have an exit strategy in mind.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I'm done for then; I work there.

When one cannot avoid a 'trouble spot', one does have to amp up the situational awareness level, and mentally prepare oneself for the higher probability of having to ward off an attack.

It isn't just kids that require regular bathroom stops. Some of us men of a certain age need them too. Ref: The First Rule of being an Old Man.

Mentally rehearsing methods of how to deescalate an 'interview' beforehand, or better yet role playing them, is a good idea, and always have an exit strategy in mind.

Working as a security guard, just about every place I work is a Watering Hole. I tell people all the time that the best way to cut 90% of the drama out of your life is to be at home by 10 PM. Then, I go work nights.

I think that might even be part of the reason that I adhere so strictly to the Rule Of Stupids because I see every night what happens when stupid people go to stupid places at stupid times to do stupid things.

As far as the regular bathroom stops go, I have old man bladder too. I understand that I sometimes I don't have a choice but if there's any other option I try to take it

 

[Armored farmer]

I would have said yes to the title of avoidance as a strategy, but then the part about avoiding rest areas made me hit the brakes.

I drive a semi quite a bit hauling grain to river terminals, and often vacation pulling a boat. It sure is nice to utilize the nations rest areas for quick stops. Its really inconvenient to park a tractor trailer in some gas stations or convenience stores just for a quick bathroom break. Therefore I happen to like rest areas for travel. They're usually clean, and that's what they're for. We even use a rest area app for traveling.
Yea, I use ATMs too.
I guess I'm a no on avoidance strategy.
My strategy is to try not to look like an easy mark.

 

[azrocks]

Interesting. I've never viewed rest-stops as high risk areas, but any time I'm around a bunch of people I don't know I'm at some level of heightened awareness. In my experience, the #1 predictor of stupidity is going to be where alcohol is involved. So unless the rest-stop has a nightclub attached, I'm not overly concerned. That being said, I have a visceral aversion to public restrooms, so I usually take care of coffee disposal a short-ways down remote dirt roads off the highway, where I'm all alone and could be robbed and killed without anyone knowing. And I use ATMs too. Guess I'm not as risk-avoidant as I thought.

 

[WrongHanded]

I'd consider some rest stops to be "fringe areas".

Fringe areas are places "in between." And it is here that criminals usually operate. This is where you are most likely to be attacked, mugged or raped.

It isn't until you begin to consciously look for them that you begin to see how many you pass through each day. A fringe area is not inherently dangerous, which is why we don't normally notice them. There is no reason to fear them; it is what lurks there that you need to fear.

Fringe areas are usually places that you pass through on you way to and from the crowd. In the middle of the crowd, there are too many people for the criminal to operate safely. Too far from it, there is nobody for him to attack. At the fringes, there are enough people going through that the criminal can find victims, but not enough to effectively hinder him.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/fringe.html

But to answer the OP, risk avoidance is pretty high on my list of things to do every day. And now that I think about it, it's my first line of self defense. It must be working fairly well because I rarely have to find my way out of a potentially dangerous confrontation, verbally or by any other means.

 

[Drail]

I think it occurred to me almost 40 years ago that any time I am in a rest area my head goes to full swivel mode. I have no idea why rest areas seem to attract these people but they do. I used to try to get some sleep in rest areas on long trips but I no longer feel comfortable going to sleep in one. Next time you're in one take a minute to watch for that guy who is walking around looking at cars and people very carefully.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I'd consider some rest stops to be "fringe areas".

Fringe areas are places "in between." And it is here that criminals usually operate. This is where you are most likely to be attacked, mugged or raped.

It isn't until you begin to consciously look for them that you begin to see how many you pass through each day. A fringe area is not inherently dangerous, which is why we don't normally notice them. There is no reason to fear them; it is what lurks there that you need to fear.

Fringe areas are usually places that you pass through on you way to and from the crowd. In the middle of the crowd, there are too many people for the criminal to operate safely. Too far from it, there is nobody for him to attack. At the fringes, there are enough people going through that the criminal can find victims, but not enough to effectively hinder him.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/fringe.html

But to answer the OP, risk avoidance is pretty high on my list of things to do every day. And now that I think about it, it's my first line of self defense. It must be working fairly well because I rarely have to find my way out of a potentially dangerous confrontation, verbally or by any other means.

I've also heard those areas described as transitional spaces

ETA added video

 

[Hangingrock]

Avoidance is a life style in regards to avoiding stupid people, places, and things along with when the sun goes down and the moon comes up I'm at home. My last shooting incidents were in my USMC days long past. I simply don't want or need to repeat history!

 

[Milt1]

North Carolina has some really nice rest areas so if you're traveling through our state you can stop at one of these with confidence.

 

[bdickens]

Avoidance should be the cornerstone of one's self-defense strategy.

Thinking about it made me realize preparedness facilitates avoidance on a subtle level.

Just a small example: I strive to keep gas in my car all the time; I have conditioned myself to see having 1/4 tank as riding on E. As a result, I can generally fill up at my convenience. I don't get gas when and where I have to, I get it when and where I choose to. Therefore avoiding the sketchy gas station with what my wife refers to as "types" loitering about. Because I don't have to get gas right now, I can mosey on down the street to the nice place. And do it during the day.

Same principle applies with other of life's necessities and little disasters. Prepare ahead of time for hurricanes (and understand that, unless you live in a city that is below sea level right along the coast, you are safer staying put) and you can avoid being stuck on the freeway for two days. Keep some basic medicines on hand and you can avoid that late night trip to the convenience store when someone's digestive tract decides to start violently emptying itself from both ends simultaneously.

You get the idea.

 

[Dibbs]

I don't have to fight the fight I never get into.

OTOH, I'm not going to bottle myself up, in my room, on the off chance that I might get attacked, in some fringe area, some day.
Do you really want to look back, at the end of it all, and say " Well, I did nothing, and went nowhere, but at least I was safe."?

Don't let crack-heads get in the way of your dreams...

 

[bearcreek]

Balderdash; it is possible.

Man's entitled to his opinion.

That's ok, just don't fall into the mistaken assumption that anyone more conservative than you is overboard.

I just agreed with Trunk Monkey's assessment of himself. Not really an "assumption", per se. If someone is so concerned about avoiding a confrontation that they won't stop at a rest area, that's their problem. I suspect that a pretty good case could be made that you're in more danger as you drive past the rest area than you are while there.

Does anyone who is saying that rest areas are so dangerous that you shouldn't stop there have any statistics to share with us upon which they're basing that opinion?

 

[BCC1]

I basically go where I want, when I want.

Since I don’t drink, use drugs or hire hookers, I’m not generally in high crime areas after dark.

I don’t think twice about going to convenience stores, gas stations or rest stops, including at night, especially while traveling. I’m always polite to the homeless who approach me, but I’m always out of cash.

Do I practice situational awareness? Sure. I also go about my business.

 

[tactikel]

Avoidance IS your best strategy. A firearm is 3rd or 4th of your options IMHO. If confronted by an agressive pandhandler (usually armed with a blade or club) you are over armed, if confronted by a gangmember (usually with 2-3 armed backups) you are severely under gunned. This knowledge is gleaned from 40 years in Chicago's westside. Know where to go and when to go.

 

[bearcreek]

Do you really want to look back, at the end of it all, and say " Well, I did nothing, and went nowhere, but at least I was safe."?

Sometimes it certainly seems as if that's what the goal is for some folks in the "gun community" (at least the ones arguing on internet forums anyway).

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Avoidance is certainly key.

Do it the majority of the time and when it cant be helped keep it to daytime hours with heads on a swivel.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Sometimes it certainly seems as if that's what the goal is for some folks in the "gun community" (at least the ones arguing on internet forums anyway).

A ship is safe in port, but that's not what ships are for. As you say, a person can go so far overboard towards caution that he's afraid to leave the house...and even the house can be perilous
!

Still, obviously any intelligent person will incorporate avoidance into one's strategy for personal safety. In my experience highway rest stops can vary between pretty sketchy and safer than my home. There are some stretches of South Dakota where the rest areas are likely safer than my home, so heavily patrolled by the HiPo. And there are some rest areas where I wouldn't want to stop at all. It depends on time of day and where you're at. Later in the evening things are a bit sketchier and the quality of lighting varies a lot. I just go by my gut feelings and the appearance of the area. Are there lots of other cars? Is the place clean and well maintained? As always the answer is- it depends.