Yes, blanks look distinctly different from live ammo (they have no projectile). There is a nice picture of a bunch of blanks here: https://www.starlinebrass.com/artic...-loading-blank-ammo-using-the-correct-powder/
Novelist Seeking Help With Guns
- Thread starter Union St
- Start date
- Status
Old Dog
Member
No, and yes. Blanks (modern ones, at least) don't have a bullet inserted into the case; the tip looks "crimped."
hanno
Member
No they do not look the same. For most blank ammo, the case is crimped at the top. See image. Yes, you can tell the difference. Because there is no bullet, you would also notice the weight difference from a real loaded round when loading.
Last edited:
Kevin Rohrer
Member
From the front of the cartridge, yes. From the back of the cartridge, no.
However, a cartridge loaded w/o powder (which is entirely possible due to low quality-control at the end of WW2), will result in the primer firing and causing the bullet to move forward and get stuck in front of the chamber. The shooter will perceive a dud round and will cycle the action to chamber a new round , which will jam the weapon and render it hors' de combat. And there is no way to unjam the weapon except to 1) remove the magazine, 2) remove the stuck cartridge, then 3) take a rod and pound out the stuck bullet.
Jim Watson
Member
1. Blanks do not look like live cartridges. The difference is obvious, the case is longer and is "rose crimped."
https://www.westernstageprops.com/32-acp-brass-blank-ammunition-p/sa23a.htm
2. A blank will not function the action of an unmodified semiautomatic weapon. Prop guns are altered to operate with blanks and are not suitable or safe for live fire thereafter. (I once saw a low budget movie that did not bother, the deceived woman had to rack the slide of her pistol every time as she repeatedly shot her unfaithful husband.)
https://www.westernstageprops.com/32-acp-brass-blank-ammunition-p/sa23a.htm
2. A blank will not function the action of an unmodified semiautomatic weapon. Prop guns are altered to operate with blanks and are not suitable or safe for live fire thereafter. (I once saw a low budget movie that did not bother, the deceived woman had to rack the slide of her pistol every time as she repeatedly shot her unfaithful husband.)
Notably, also the case in Jaws with Quint shooting an unmodified M1 rifle.
To add, most blank auto/semi-auto adaptions aren't something that can be readily changed in the field, and any example so modified is likely unsafe to use with live ammunition.
Naturally, any manually operated design (pump, bolt, lever, or break) won't have those considerations.
JR24
Member
^
^^This^^
You and I must have the same backgrounds.
I said the exact same thing to myself. My guess is that his readers are those who have never been in the military and/or in public safety, so they do not recognize the need for a Suspension of Belief. Granted, everyone likes the Hero to be bigger than life, but the Reacher character acts like Superman. I am surprised he is not equipped w/ a cape.
I am an aspiring author myself and am in the beginning of a novel about a character somewhat like Reacher. However, my character knows the difference between a Ka-bar and a butter knife, and will never disengage the safety on his Glock (not that he would ever lower himself to carry such a weapon).
Agreed. More and more if I'm thinking of a new thriller or military fiction book to read, I check he authors bio for relevant life skills, if they are a lifelong writer from LA or NYC or something I tend to want to read a sample first or just pass.
Plenty of former mil and LEO authors out there that could use my $$ instead and will write about guns/gear and tactics in a more reasonable manner. Peter Nealen and Jack Carr come immediately to mind (Also Larry Correia, as mentioned, is great).
Another aside, along with Reacher (I couldn't get through the first book) I neve understood the appeal of the Patterson books, had to read a few on long flights when they were the only remotely interesting thing in he airport and Kindle didn't exist yet. Just about everything in those books annoyed me, plot, pacing, realism, dialogue.
CapnMac
Member
All the more fascinating as it's also shown as an M1917, too. Oops.
CapnMac
Member
And Joe Wambaugh, too, who was almost required reading for a while.
Union St. Thank you for making an effort to get this right. I used to read a lot. I don't so much any more but I have gotten annoyed at the gun related errors of authors on more than one occasion (don't even get me started on movies). Larry Corriea does a good job on gun stuff. The other one that always did good on gun related things was an author most people don't read much these days but when I was young I loved the old Louis L'Amour westerns.
Kevin Rohrer
Member
Yes, Patterson is horrible, but he makes big bucks writing crap. I guess most Sheeple don't know decent writing from the junk.
As for a decent thriller writer, Michael Connelly's Bosch series is not bad; the TV series is great.
JR24
Member
Agree! I've read almost all the Bosch series, a few of the crossovers and the TV show is one of the very few i get excited for a new season each year.
Thankyou gents. Is it possible to adjust a cartridge to make it look like a live one? For example, Kevin # 79 discusses a cartridge without powder. So, could the powder be nefariously removed by a gun artisan and replaced to look like the real thing? (apologies if this is a silly question).
Not silly at all. It can be done, although in print it's usually described as being done with pliers. Hand tools usually leave marks on the soft brass and copper. They do make impact bullet pullers that would remove the bullet, but you would still need a way to re-seat the bullet without making any marks (if you are trying to deceive a knowledgeable shooter). The easiest way to do this would be with a reloading press. Lee Precision does make a hand press that is all of 12-14 inches long and very portable if that's an issue. It would need the proper die and shell holder in it to hold the brass and seat the bullet. If you're creating a character who is a bit more sophisticated they might have a bench mounted reloading press which would do the same thing but not be as portable.
There are other options but those would be likely to leave marks on the assembled cartridge that could give away the fact it was tampered with. On the other hand, you are creating the story, so things like lighting or distractions can be introduced to allow the character to miss the tampered cartridge.
Jim Watson
Member
Yes, but you are getting COMPLICATED nefarious.
Yes. A kinetic bullet puller is used to pull the bullet. Powder is dumped out. Bullet is reseated into brass case using a reloading press and bullet seating die. Cartridge without powder looks exactly like one with powder, and only a sensitive scale could be used to tell the difference.
When “fired” in a gun, the primer will make a “pop” sound. No bang because there is no powder. However, the primer will likely push the bullet from the brass case and may become lodged in the barrel. To the shooter, the gun will have appeared to malfunctioned.
If the shooter instinctively worked the pistol action by hand to get the “dud case” out and a “good one” in and then fired the weapon, it is possible the barrel could burst (split along its side) when the just fired bullet traveling fast crashes into the “dud bullet” lodged in the barrel. May result in shooter injury, hand, eye or both.
I have done extensive testing with deliberate squibs. In my experience the situation you have described only occurs with revolvers or with a partial load of powder in either action type. When a true primer-only condition exists in a semi-auto the bullet ends up in the very first part of the rifling. With FMJ ammo (which Union is going to be using) the next cartridge jams into the lodged bullet which prevents the gun from going into battery.
I had some pictures of this at one point but I seem to have lost them. I would be happy to recreate the condition for the purposes of this thread once the holidays are over.
I believe what you said about the bullet not making it down the barrel. I was assuming a lot in my scenario. Nothing like a test for some information.
1962 - as mentioned earlier - lots of WWII surplus former Nazi manufacture arms & ammo.
The Germans - somehow failed to comprehend that - if you enslave someone & force them to work until they die - probably aren't the ones you want making weapons & ammunition for you...
Sort of like giving crap to a server before you get your food - you have no idea what's going to take place with what you get.
I can easily see where, surplus ammunition, made by forced labor, could appear to be perfectly fine - and not have any powder in the case.
All the checks in the world wouldn't turn that up.
Sabotage was known to have happened in those factories.
The Germans - somehow failed to comprehend that - if you enslave someone & force them to work until they die - probably aren't the ones you want making weapons & ammunition for you...
Sort of like giving crap to a server before you get your food - you have no idea what's going to take place with what you get.
I can easily see where, surplus ammunition, made by forced labor, could appear to be perfectly fine - and not have any powder in the case.
All the checks in the world wouldn't turn that up.
Sabotage was known to have happened in those factories.
Great replies. OK, I'm working on writing something, but Christmas, etc. I actually know what "into battery" means. 
I've been studying. I think the actual firing/misfiring scene will have to be quick-quick-quick. No time right then to explain the details or discuss the malfunction. But thank you all again for really good information. BTW, everyone I see testing this gun doesn't like the magazine release at the bottom of the grip - why is that bad?
I've been studying. I think the actual firing/misfiring scene will have to be quick-quick-quick. No time right then to explain the details or discuss the malfunction. But thank you all again for really good information. BTW, everyone I see testing this gun doesn't like the magazine release at the bottom of the grip - why is that bad?
Old Dog
Member
Much slower to reload -- the mag release behind the trigger guard is intuitive, easily pressed with strong-hand thumb and most modern pistols will drop the mag freely (without having to pull it out), facilitating very, very fast reloads (watch video of competition shooters in action)>Great replies. OK, I'm working on writing something, but Christmas, etc. I actually know what "into battery" means.
"Heel" mag release is slow, pistols often required using off-hand to strip (pull) mag out of magwell. Performing speed, tactical or emergency reloads with the heel mag-release is a cumbersome process.
The heel release is far more common in Europe. The way I have heard it explained, European cops are (or were) trained to retain their empty magazine, hence the heel release. I don't know where I heard that, let alone the veracity of the story itself, but it certainly makes magazine retention easier since you have to grab the magazine.
JR24
Member
Much like the alleged reason for the magazine disconnect of the Hi Power, gotta strip that empty mag out by hand even with the button release.
Nice if you don't want to lose a mag, but more complicated and slow on the speed reload (which wasn't really a thing back then, as far as I've read).
- Status
