Now is the time to get a P30

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Hahaha! I should amend my statement about the Glock trigger- it's only the worse among common striker sidearms. There are probably uncommon ones that are worse. For instance the trigger on the entry level S&W SD40V is truly atrocious, certainly worse than the Glock. But nearly every other striker fired gun I've tried has a better trigger. FWIW I would rank the trigger of a handful of striker-gun triggers and follows: VP9=PPQ > Ruger LC9s > Walther PPX > Bersa BP9CC > Beretta Nano > S&W Shield > Glock > S&W SD40V.

The Salient Glock seems to be virtually as good as the stock PPQ or VP9, perhaps slightly better. It should be for the price!
 
Phaedrus/69 said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you've never actually held a VP9, amiright?:rolleyes: Your statement is, if I may be so indelicate, completely asinine. Try to swap slides between a the two- I'll wait. They're superficially similar but the only part that will swap between the two guns is the magazine. And if you actually had access to the two pistols to hold next to each other it would be patently obvious that the cutout of the VP9 is higher up into the frame. And the slightest understanding of the way both guns mechanically operate would explain why (hint- it has to do with the hammer spring running under the backstrap of one of the guns but not the other).



Well I wouldn't call their interest sudden. HK made striker fired guns back when Gaston was making folding chairs or whatever he used to do. They quit making striker fired guns and poly guns long before Glock was even an idea. HK's financials aren't great, that's true, but your figures are a ways off. Like a zero off. As far as bashing Glock I havent' seen any of that here.



Did your mom leave your dad for an HK executive or something?:neener: Someone must have took a real sour leak in your Wheaties this morning. The P30 has enough accessories- especially since it really doesn't need anything beyond a holster. It's the most comfortable gun OOTB I've ever found. Aside from the VP9 I've never seen any other gun with a grip as customizable as the P30. What can you change about a Glock? The backstrap? The P30 and VP9 have three removeable grip sections with 27 possible combinations. There's nothing else on the market that I am aware of that can be customized to that degree. As far as sales the P30 has done pretty well. But of course it's like a BMW, an expensive item that will never sell as many units as a cheaper car like a Honda Civic. But I guess if sheer numbers is the only factor then the AK47 is the finest firearm ever made and the Big Mac is the highest quality bit of culinary perfection you can buy.



There's no rebate on the VP9, just the USP, P30, HK45 & MR lines. But it's selling very well so far, to the point that Moody's has noted it in the financial forecast for HK as a positive. As for quality I'll leave that to everyone to judge for themselves. I have owned Glocks and found them to be greatly inferior to HK in every way save price- they're okay for cheapie guns. My Gen 1 G22 was the best Glock I've ever had but I upgrades to a USP almost two decades ago. Since then each gen of Glock has been progressively worse IMOHO. I'll probably never buy another one. The Glock trigger is markedly inferior to that of the VP9. I find the Glock to have the poorest factory trigger of any striker gun, slightly below the Shield (which isn't really great either). The only competition for trigger quality IMOHO is the PPQ; that one is arguably as good or better than the VP9. I'm quite fond of Walther and would love to add a PPQ M1 and maybe a PPS to my collection.
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Look, you've a lot of your ego tied up in the brand, thats fairly obvious, so I'll refrain from joining you in the ad-hom silliness. Just a few things for you to mull over, first and foremost the P30 is a terrible design, this is simply a fact, the pistol has no presence in any of large USA LEA or DoD, its fitting of parts, and its trigger guard clutter muck up its otherwise decent interface with the human hand. A little test you can run on your P30 is to gauge how much movement you have in the grip inserts after they have been inserted into the frame? On the several P30's in front of me, everyone of them feel squishy, mushy, and squirmy in the hand under fire.

I'm sorry, but there's no gentler way to say this, but the ergo's suck! The initial nice melding with the human hand totally nullified by the pistols bizarre trigger clutter, and its extraneous, unnecessary controls. One of the greatest ergonomic failings of the P30 is the trigger guard trench/groove cut directly into the guard, this groove is necessary to the function of the trigger, which is to short and radically curved as it is, they couldn't shorten it up further, so they scooped out the guard. The problem from this is painfully obvious to about 60-70% of most shooters who experience trigger pinch both on the pull, and on reset!

The ambi slide stop releases are ridiculously overbuilt, so much so that they interfere with virtually everyone's grasp/grip upon the pistol, causing false slide lock up! This particular malfunction is so common that very very few P30's show up at pistol courses anymore, and when they do, they always come in at the rear of the class, of course their rotten trigger pulls doing them no favors in competition! A pistol with an MSRP of $1200.00 displaying the trigger pull characteristics of the P30 is an obscenity!

I hate bulges in a pistols design, Ruger, Sig and HK have all violated this sacred design preference to one extent or another, both Ruger & Sig doing so on the left side of the frame, away from the firing mechanism(trigger), so while obnoxious, its not fatal to the design. Enter Hk's bulge, on the right side of the frame, directly above and along the trigger guard/dust cover. This protuberance is necessary to house the completely ridiculous ambi slide stop lever(which are at least one inch to long)and right where most people are taught to ride their trigger fingers off target. The effect is brutal, it unbalances the shooters grip, it is a powerful distraction, and it creates a bizarre sense of the pistol being canted to the left! Such is ergonomic catastrophe!

The S version incorporating a 1911 style safety(ambi)is a catastrophe, it forces the hand even lower into the grip on a pistol with an already to high bore axis, the effect devastating, the recoil characteristics being crazy as a result. It literally forces the shooters hand down the butt stock(the wrong direction).

The decock button is simply an ergonomic bomb, its all but inaccessible to a lefty unless they have unusually long thumbs, the trigger obstructs their access to the button, forcing them to break their grip to accomplish the task.

Then we have the painfully cruel take down procedure, which is really just kooky, I can pop the slides from both a Beretta 92FS and a Glock before you can pop the slide of a P30 pistol, I might even be able to pop the slide from a third pistol before you can do so with the P30, though I can't be certain, but I know I can with the 92FS and the G19.

Then of course you have Hk's restriction on the use of high pressure ammo in the P30 design, they might void your warranty if you run +P ammo and it is felt to have been responsible for any failure, they will void your warranty on the spot if they discover that you have run +P+ through the mechanism.

I understand that the pistol is handsome, that its on the cover of a video game that you played as a boy, or its direct descendant was, and that it has tattooed an imprint upon your brain, nothing wrong with that, I have absolutely the exact same failing toward certain S&W wheelguns, however its another thing altogether to be so kool-aid juiced that you are unable to observe the obvious.
 
Have you ever actually fired a P30 or did you 'learn' this from one of your fellow keyboard kommandos? Nutnfancy perhaps? But I will commend you on your dedication to the art of Internet trolling. What your fact free posts lack in basic knowledge they more than make up for in verbosity.
 
Phaedrus/69 said:
Have you ever actually fired a P30 or did you 'learn' this from one of your fellow keyboard kommandos? Nutnfancy perhaps? But I will commend you on your dedication to the art of Internet trolling. What your fact free posts lack in basic knowledge they more than make up for in verbosity.
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What a childish, immature, and offensive post, we're talking about a machine, and look at how childish you are, apparently incapable of absorbing a reasoned critical analysis.
 
In My Humble but INFORMED opinion, the modular grip on my own P30S 9mm is one of the best grip designs I have seen in close to 40 years experience with firearms. If you want a gun that you can shoot the best, pick the one that fits your hand the best, and the modular grip on this P30S fits my large hands very well and it is very accurate and reliable.
 
Yeah, there's at least one person on Earth that hates hates hates the grip I guess, but most people love it.:D With 27 different combinations nearly everyone should be able to find one that fits them very well. Everyone that's ever shot or even held one of my own P30s or VP9 has commented that if felt like the grip was made specifically for them. The sole reasonable complaint from people who have actually carried the gun is that the grip texture can be a little rough against bare skin. It doesn't bother me really but it's noticeable. One could certainly take a very light pass with sandpaper across the panel that faces your body; if you don't like it you can get a new panel pretty cheaply.

FWIW it is true that the decocker isn't very well positioned for left handed freaks.:neener: :D In that respect having the decocker on the safety like the older models is probably better. I find the decocker button to be perfect. At first I found myself wishing that it wouldn't work with the safety engaged but after carrying it for awhile I came to appreciate the way it functions.

As the OP said, if you do want a P30 this would be a good time to jump. The rebate goes til the end of the year. I am wanting to get either a P30L with the V1 LEM, an HK45C or maybe a USP Expert or Tactical while the rebate is in effect. I am hoping that one more HK will build my self esteem to the point where I can walk down the street without looking at my feet the whole time.;)
 
JDR said:
In My Humble but INFORMED opinion, the modular grip on my own P30S 9mm is one of the best grip designs I have seen in close to 40 years experience with firearms. If you want a gun that you can shoot the best, pick the one that fits your hand the best, and the modular grip on this P30S fits my large hands very well and it is very accurate and reliable.
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Well, in my humble, but very experienced opinion, the grip inserts slopping around in the modular grip frame are a deal breaker! The inserts on the S&W M&P pistol which is half of the price of a P30, doesn't even show a seam, let alone slop around. The best kool-aid juiced statement I have ever heard about the sloppy P30 grip inserts came from m4carbine.net, where one of the young kids, who clearly thought he was being manly or some such thing, suggested that they be "cemented" into place!

Thats kool-aid drunk.
 
Phaedrus/69 said:
Yeah, there's at least one person on Earth that hates hates hates the grip I guess, but most people love it.:D With 27 different combinations nearly everyone should be able to find one that fits them very well. Everyone that's ever shot or even held one of my own P30s or VP9 has commented that if felt like the grip was made specifically for them. The sole reasonable complaint from people who have actually carried the gun is that the grip texture can be a little rough against bare skin. It doesn't bother me really but it's noticeable. One could certainly take a very light pass with sandpaper across the panel that faces your body; if you don't like it you can get a new panel pretty cheaply.

FWIW it is true that the decocker isn't very well positioned for left handed freaks.:neener: :D In that respect having the decocker on the safety like the older models is probably better. I find the decocker button to be perfect. At first I found myself wishing that it wouldn't work with the safety engaged but after carrying it for awhile I came to appreciate the way it functions.

As the OP said, if you do want a P30 this would be a good time to jump. The rebate goes til the end of the year. I am wanting to get either a P30L with the V1 LEM, an HK45C or maybe a USP Expert or Tactical while the rebate is in effect. I am hoping that one more HK will build my self esteem to the point where I can walk down the street without looking at my feet the whole time.;)
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I have a question, one that I am quite serious about, why is it so important for you to receive affirmation of your choice of a handgun? Why is it so important to you, and don't say that its not, because it obviously is, you didn't hesitate to make a fool of yourself, you perceived my analysis as somehow threatening to your decision, and you attacked me because of it.

BTW, how many guns do you think Glock, or S&W might sell if they announced two hundred bucks off of M&P's and G19's? I'd think millions of them would go, they'd likely not be able to cover the sales action with available product, something that I knows that Hk won't have to worry about.
 
Is that M4 forums or Xbox forums? Mine are tighter than Dianne Feinstein's behind. Can you simply not bear that there are plenty of P30 owners that are very pleased with their guns? What's the old saying- you're not happy til we're not happy? Why is so vital to your self image to run down a gun that is giving great service?:rolleyes:
 
If Glock wanted to be in a situation where they "can't handle the sales action" tell Gaston to make a single stack nine. Done and done! As for the price cuts, don't ask me, ask Glock or S&W. I gotta assume they're running their businesses as they think best.
 
I was going to try to save this with some editing, but it looks like it's more than circling the drain with petty bickering.

This is more than enough.
 
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