NRA members: Should people on the federal terrorist watch list be able to buy a gun?

[thelaststand]

Mayors against illegal guns posted up a stat that 82% of NRA members think people on the federal terrorist list should not be able to buy guns. I wanted to check to see if this is correct.

I'm going to post up these options

1. No one on the terrorist watch list should be able to buy a gun.
2. Foreigners on the terrorist watch list should not be able to buy a gun, but citizens still have the second amendment right to buy guns that cannot be infringed just because of being placed on a federal list.
3. American citizens should not be placed on a terrorist watch list for any reason
4. A terrorist watch list shouldn't even exist
5. I'm not an NRA member

 

[Tim the student]

Do you have a link?

 

[TexasRifleman]

Innocent until proven guilty.

Remember, Senator Ted Kennedy was on the terrorist watch list.

Your poll doesn't list the obvious choice, that due process should be followed to deny a person the right to purchase a gun or be placed on any watch list.

Why did you leave that one off? Little bit skewed results without it I'd think, as most polls are.

 

[mljdeckard]

1. It's not necessarily that I oppose those on the watch list buying guns so much as that the list itself is flawed and incomplete.

2. No, U.S. citizens have the right to keep and bear arms until losing that right through due process of law.

3. See #1. If an American is a criminal, they should be treated as one. (See #2.)

4. I don't see how it's a bad idea to keep track of people who want to harm this country and make an effort to keep them from entering the country.

5. I am.

 

[FTSESQ]

Are these your questions or the original poll's?

 

[Warhawk83]

I'm with TexasRifleman, the floater that got left off is my choice.I didn't agree with any of those answers.

 

[thelaststand]

http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/media-center/pr012-09.shtml

 

[thelaststand]

My questions. I'm sure the original poll was designed in order to push their agenda, I just created a more correct poll on the issue.

 

[thelaststand]

Sorry I didn't think of that Texasrifleman. The point of the poll is not to debate the issue of should a convicted criminal be able to buy a gun. The question is, should someone who happens to be on a federal terrorist list be banned from buying a gun for that reason.

 

[ArmedBear]

Remember, Senator Ted Kennedy was on the terrorist watch list.

So what you're saying is that a long-time out-of-control alcoholic murderer who committed treason (meeting with an enemy nation as an unauthorized representative of the US) should be allowed to buy a gun?

WRT the poll...

A terrorist watch list has to exist. The FBI has a job to do.

But... A "watch list" is just that: a list of people who should be watched. There is no burdern of proof, here. If, for some reason, I get added to the list, and the FBI watches me for a while, they'll soon quit, because I'm not a terrorist. However, they have to compile some sort of priority list.

One's appearing on the list does not mean that he/she has committed or intends to commit a crime. It just means that, for some reason, that person seems worth watching, at least until better information arises.

So... I don't have a problem with there being a list. However, that list should not be treated as if it means that someone IS a terrorist. It doesn't mean that. One would hope that someone who IS a terrorist, and has been observed committing a crime, will be arrested and charged, or used as part of a sting, or both. Would it not be gross negligence for the FBI to allow known terrorists to walk the streets if they can be charged with their crimes?

 

[thelaststand]

how about this, help me design the poll, what other options should I put in

I'm not trying to make the poll flawed and remember there are length limits.

1. No one on the terrorist watch list should be able to buy a gun.
2. Foreigners can't but a citizen can if they are not otherwise banned.
3. Foreigners can, but citizens can't.
3. American citizens should not be placed on a terrorist watch list for any reason
4. A terrorist watch list shouldn't even exist
5. I'm not an NRA member

 

[Warhawk83]

Not specifically for that reason. As someone already said,Ted Kennedy was on the list. I have also heard of 8 year old boys on the list as well.In fact on dateline they had a kid that has been strip searched every single flight starting at 18 months old. That would be a big ole f u to whoever thought they were gonna strip search my kid, but I digress.

 

[Oyeboten]

Being a suspect, or being on a so-called 'watch list', is not a crime...it is not a Due Process by which any Rights are taken from the person.

If a person is in posession of their Civil Rights, they have the right to purchase, own and enjoy Firearms.

 

[Warhawk83]

I vote for the new #2 and the new #3 shouldn't be on the list at all.

 

[LouisCipher777]

it really needed a "people should only be able to be put on the watch list for narrowly defined reasons, and then can not own firearms."

 

[UpTheIrons]

All you need to know about that MAIG poll can be summed up in two words: Frank Luntz.

He is the master of wording questions to get a pre-determined answer. His polls have been suspect for years - anything you see by him should automatically be discounted.

 

[cambeul41]

I can't vote. There is no "None of the above" option, and the system rejects my attempt to cast a blank ballot.

 

[Gungnir]

Voted 4, not because I'm naive enough to believe it will ever happen, or that it did not exist prior to 2001 (and if you think it didn't I have a bridge for sale...), but

• Because of the way it's trying to be used to eliminate peoples rights without due process currently right to free travel, with attempt to restrict firearm ownership.
• Errors in inclusions (Ted Kennedy, 8 year old boy known in the press as "Mike", Ted Stevens (former senator for Alaska) wife who's name is Catherine mistaken for Cat Stevens aka Yusuf Islam).
• Criteria for addition arbitrary (Maryland State police added 53 non-violent political activists, one of whom had only been to Maryland on I-95 while driving from her residence in NY to DC).
• Reclamation of rights process and removal from list is unclear process, and currently requires court action.

There's a bunch of other stuff that I can't think of off the top of my head.

 

[Tim the student]

I'm sure the original poll was designed in order to push their agenda

Bingo. Most polls that you see reported are flawed in a number of ways.

As an aside, I was happy to see that only one mayor from Iowa is on their list.

 

[Trebor]

I also don't agree with any of the answers listed.

Just being on a "watch list", by itself, should not strip someone of their 2A rights. There is no due process there and really no appeal.

I wrote about this in my Detroit Gun Rights Examiner column. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea should read my column and follow the links to the actual proposed law.

Will a terror "Watch list" strip citizens of their 2A rights?

This is scary stuff.

 

[thelaststand]

The point of this poll isn't for us to design the terrorist watch list for the feds, I think that anyone here is mature enough to understand that we cannot control how the feds use the list. We did not vote for the list to exist. The list exists, the government will misuse it like all other lists in the history of this planet have been used for bad things. That's why I gave the option if you think we simply should not put americans on this list.

 

[thelaststand]

Trebor, what option would you like to see on the poll?

 

[basicblur]

Do you have a link?

Download poll in PDF here.

I couldn't answer the poll in this thread, just like I couldn't answer a lot of the questions in the survey-too vague/need clarification.

Fer example-nuttin' wrong with a terrorist watch list, but when some nameless, faceless bureaucrat can put you on there for a reason which they do not have to disclose, and you have no way to redress errors, should we even have a list?

You want a list, let's open up on how you got on there and provide an easy way for mistakes to be remedied.

 

[Trebor]

Trebor, what option would you like to see on the poll?

Not sure. I just know that my answer didn't "fit" any of the options.

Maybe, "No one should be deprieved of their rights without due process"

Or maybe a simple "Other -explain in comments"

 

[thelaststand]

basicblur, do you think you can control the use of and who is put on that list? Do you think we can decide this? I think that is far out of our control. I think we could eliminate the use of the list for american citizens. That's possible, and I think we could simply decide not to remove people's rights because they are on this list. But to tailor design the list isn't really possible, an agent could simply put someone on the list that they don't like.

Also consider that an option must be 100 characters so if you can't find an option you like please design one for me and I'll repost after we gather up more options.