NYPD brass to cops: Stop using Kahr K-9 semi-automatic pistol as an off-duty gun

[DinosaurJones]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...utomatic-pistol-off-duty-gun-article-1.990037

Weapon's light trigger is blamed for accidental shootings
BY ROCCO PARASCANDOLA
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Monday, December 12 2011, 6:10 AM

The NYPD has instructed cops to stop carrying an off-duty gun that has a trigger so light it’s been blamed for a series of accidental discharges, the Daily News has learned.

NYPD spokesman Paul Browne says the Kahr K-9 semi-automatic pistol has led to more than a dozen such shootings — none resulting in a fatality. The shootings have occurred over the last few years, a source said....

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[Fleet]

Great idea, fix a seriously deficient training program by modifying the hardware requirements. Leave it to NYC to come up with that brain storm.

 

[Old Fuff]

They need a 13 pound trigger pull to prevent unintended shootings???

It must be something in the water.

 

[gathert]

Just be glad they don't have to carry the Makarov pistols. Those things have a 25 lb double action trigger pull. Its impossible to get it to fire with your left hand if you ever needed to in DA mode its so heavy. SA trigger pull is excellent however.

 

[BRE346]

Kin I get in line for one of those surplus pistols?

 

[CoRoMo]

Dang 7.5# triggers... light as a feather they are.

 

[hardluk1]

I have cm9 and cw9 and one trigger is 6lb the other is 6lb 4oz. Never concedered them light be truely smooth. yes the troops do need more training time. LIke NO finger on the trigger unless your going to shot. crazy world.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

NYPD Spokesman: "We don't understand it... no matter how heavy the trigger pull on our guns is, we keep having these accidental discharges when our cops pull the trigger on these guns. All our guys are doing is pulling the trigger, the gun seems incapable of differentiating when the officer means to shoot and when he's just, you know, pulling the trigger. We strongly suspect faulty hardware."

 

[Old Fuff]

Ah so....

I see the problem...

No matter how heavy the trigger pull on our guns is, we keep having these accidental discharges when our cops pull the trigger on these guns. All our guys are doing is pulling the trigger, the gun seems incapable of differentiating when the officer means to shoot and when he's just, you know, pulling the trigger. We strongly suspect faulty hardware.

Clearly, in New York City they should not have pistols that have triggers. Simply remove the trigger, and what the trigger pull weight is won't matter. To better improve safety they should not carry any pistols that have cartridges in them. Take away all magazines and be sure the chambers are clear at all times.

See? The solution is obvious.

 

[rcmodel]

The Mayberry PD never had any problems with Barny shooting himself.

I say give them one round and make them carry it in their shirt pocket.

rc

 

[Old Fuff]

I say give them one round and make them carry it in their shirt pocket.

Wouldn't work...

They'd have to learn how to unbutton a pocket.

 

[rodinal220]

Ah,more BS from the brass.Pretty well explains the Glock NY#1 and NY#2 triggers.These white shirts never were the real police and just used their connections to move up the ladder.The file officers have to pay for their ineptitude.

 

[Paris]

Seems like Kahr has been making inrodes into certain markets the last few years - there may be people trying to limit that through whatever means they can - like knowing someone on a large PD who can publicly state not to use XYZ make/model. We know, from reading these forums, there are people who believe everything they read. Viral marketing at it's finest. I doubt if NYPD actually cares or will check if their guys stop using the Kahr... the intended purpose has been accomplished. This is all my opinion of course.

 

[nyrifleman]

Just be glad they don't have to carry the Makarov pistols. Those things have a 25 lb double action trigger pull. Its impossible to get it to fire with your left hand if you ever needed to in DA mode its so heavy. SA trigger pull is excellent however.

Huh, are you sure you're talking about a Makarov, and not a Hungarian PA-63 or similar? I've a Mak, and while I haven't measured the DA trigger pull on it, it's not any greater than the trigger pull on my other firearms... I'd estimate it at 8 pounds or so. It's lighter than that on my Kel-Tec P11, even with a trigger job, about the same as on my CZ-75 and only a little heavier than on my DAO S&W 642. It's my EDC.

But you know, if you're not completely satisfied with it, I'll give you $100 for it

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Are they still authorizing Glocks? (NYPD officers purchase their own sidearms, from an "approved list.") Those have a lot shorter trigger pull than any Kahr, even with stiffer trigger springs added.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

So, what pistol(s) ARE they suggesting for off-duty carry? More than A DOZEN accidental shootings? As my dear Ol' Pappy once told me, "nothing is fool-proof for a talented-enough FOOL!".

 

[mortablunt]

^ I always heard it as: "Nothing can be made foolproof because fools are so ingenious."

13 pound trigger pulls? No wonder they miss 80% of the time; they have to seriously flex their hands to pull the trigger.
Y'know, why don't they just add manual safeties or of I don't know, Actually bother to train them to do anything? And these are the people who are skilled and professional enough to protect us and they've received all that great elite training? There needs to be a major reboot to the training as well as job performance standards. Possibly mandating a safety course or some sort of penalty for each negligent discharge would be the right thing to do. No amount of fiddling with the trigger group is going to make up for improper training and abysmal standards.

 

[ATBackPackin]

A poor workman blames his tools.

They can do anything they want to the firearms, but nothing will change until they fix the training.

 

[NoAlibi]

Old Fuff: "They'd have to learn how to unbutton a pocket."

Surely you don't mean men like Jim Cirillo of the NYPD Stake Out Squad who was in 17 shoot-outs and survived them all are incapable of unbuttoning a pocket? Sure enough NYPD has their share of Neanderthals in whose hands even a club would be dangerous, but lumping these goons with the many fine men and women of the NYPD does the good guys a disservice.

Most of us don't mind having a little fun poke at us, so if you were just jesting, you might want to edit your post with a "".....Doc

 

[2WheelsGood]

Seems utterly impossible. More than a dozen? From Kahrs only? The math seems suspicious.

 

[alsaqr]

There's an easy solution to this problem. Teach the cops to keep their fingers off the bang switch until they intend to shoot someone.

 

[David E]

NYPD Spokesman: "All our guys are doing is pulling the trigger..."

Well, theres the problem!

the gun seems incapable of differentiating...

Pssst! Its a soul-less, mindless mechanical device.

when the officer means to shoot and when he's just, you know, pulling the trigger.

The OFFICER, having a soul and, presumably, a mind, should be charged with the task of "differentiating" when to shoot or not.

We strongly suspect faulty hardware."

Funny, the rest of the world strongly suspects faulty training!

 

[GLOOB]

When you're used to (mis)handling a Glock with a NYC trigger, then you ARE more prone to having an ND with a Kahr or any gun with a lighter trigger. 7.5# is heavy for most of us, but when you compare it to 13# NY trigger, it's darn light.

Since the NYC police department can't simply fire everyone that has an ND and erase their pension, then it's perfectly reasonable for them to make requirements like this. It sounds moronic. But it's equally moronic to think that every single gun-carrying member of the NYPD will ever ALL know how to safely handle a firearm with a light trigger at any given point in time. Esp when they have a 13# trigger between themselves and life/death, many of them are going to habitually stage the trigger and ignore the finger off the trigger rule.

They could also mandate that the officer must document a certain number of hours/year training with and certifying with an off duty handgun, but that would cost money to implement.

If you think about it, this isn't much different from banning officers from installing a standard or competition sear in their Glocks while off duty.

 

[Buck Kramer]

Whats the actual trigger pull on the Kahr?

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Just be glad they don't have to carry the Polish P64 pistols. Those things have a 25 lb double action trigger pull. Its impossible to get it to fire with your left hand if you ever needed to in DA mode its so heavy. SA trigger pull is excellent however.

Fixed that for you.