O rings for bullet puller

[jmorris]

Then I guess it boiles down to the end user knowes more about the product than the manufacturer.

Not at all. Every manufacturer could make a better product and they know it. The problem is they want to get you to buy the product, so they make it cheap. Three cast aluminum pie shaped hunks and an o-ring is a lot cheaper than any design that would work better (including a machined shell holder).

Except for the stupid part so was Dale Earnhardt

Maybe a good example of the manufacturer not being perfect...

 

[jmorris]

If our government was buying it (money being no object) I would imagine one with a self retracting aperture would be nice but if you think a $20,000 allen wrench is expensive...

 

[Foto Joe]

The reason we have attorneys is largely because people try to out think the engineer who designs something. That's not to say that engineers are infallible, I'd like to meet a couple from Harley Davidson in a dark alley to be honest with you, but I digress.

Using a "Shell Holder" is a bad idea. You may get away with it for a long time but think about it. The reason you are pulling the bullet in the first place is "YOU screwed up". So if you think that for one second YOU can't screw up a second time you may very easily prove yourself WRONG!!

If you live in or around Yellowstone, you don't go around "Poking the bear in the nose", one of these days he may eat you!! When, not if, that round goes off in the shell holder, it will NOT go poof. You will be looking for pieces of your kinetic puller, shell holder and brass all over the room, hopefully you won't find them inside of you. Take a look at the following post, I doubt it was a hoax. He admits that the primer might not have been seated correctly but remember what I said above, you're not taking it apart because you didn't make a mistake in the first place.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=50347

An accident seldom happens simply because only one thing went wrong.

 

[fguffey]

I would not know what it would be like to wake up in a new world everyday and start over.

What mental midget would install a case into a hammer type bullet puller with a high primer??? How many reloaders claim to be reloaders that do not know some shell holders will not allow a high primer case to be removed and or installed from or into it. Too many reloaders in the claims department, it appears they claims the reload.

With the 3 piece held together Colet, who would install a case with a high primer? Not me because of logic, the puller is designed to pull bullets, it is not designed to seat bullets, if the powder trickled through the flash hole and filled the ares between the primer and bottom of the primer pocket the powder will not allow the primer to move forward and if the primer did move forward the powder could cause the primer to ignite, and then the operator of the hammer would reallies why there is a hole in the shell holder, but, I hope there is no one dumb enough to install a high primer case in the bullet puller AND the shell holders that are design to discourage removing cases from a hand primer or press are designed to make the reloader aware of a high primer and prevent reloaders from the claims department from having a slam fire because of a high primer, then before responding, think about it, the primer on a slam fire may not have been crushed by a firing pin, it is possible the slide seating the primer on trickled down powder ignited the primer.

______________________________________________________________

I have been accused of building boobby traps in to my responses, I will spend no time defending myself, I will say I do not put any effort into the design, because? Boobies are so easy to catch.

_________________________________________________________________
F. Guffey

 

[jcwit]

Not at all. Every manufacturer could make a better product and they know it. The problem is they want to get you to buy the product, so they make it cheap. Three cast aluminum pie shaped hunks and an o-ring is a lot cheaper than any design that would work better (including a machined shell holder).

Well bein as RCBS provides a full replacement warrenty with no time limit, the above is nothing more than an opinion.

 

[fguffey]

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=50347

F. Guffey

 

[howlnmad]

That is a profound statement!

I love profound statements.


"That will NEVER happen to me."

 

[cfullgraf]

Well, i can see the issues of using a shell holder in place of the collet. I guess it is not such a good idea after all.

I have not had an issue with the collet but then I have never had to disassemble more than a round or two at a time.

As they say, poor planning leads to p*** poor performance. I spend the time up front making sure my reloads are correct before forging ahead.

If I was ever in need of disassembling bunches of rounds, I would get one of the press mounted collet bullet pullers.

 

[jcwit]

Problem with the press mounted collet bullet pullers is they are almost if not completely impossible to use on many handgun rounds.

 

[ljnowell]

Hate to say it, but the argument of never modifying something because the manufacturer knows better is quite hypocritical coming from a group like this. Seems nearly everyday there is a discussion of modifying equipment of some sort to make it work better.

Can someone hurt themselves? Sure. If someone is silly enough to take a round with a high primer and it that way sure. Someone is silly enough to hurt themselves easily with anyhing, I imagine.

Also, using the argument you already screwed up once, so......... is not applicable. I have never pulled rounds because they were overcharged or anything like that. I dont make that kind of mistake, sorry, maybe whoever suggested that does though. The only reason I pull a round is if its of unknown origin(range pickup) or if its an old round that I didnt have labeled, and I dont know whats in it, I will pull it just so I can load it with whatever load I am using at the time.

 

[jcwit]

I dont make that kind of mistake, sorry, maybe whoever suggested that does though.

So this is implying that only others make mistakes and you never do.

Well, you're still walking in the pasture.

 

[ljnowell]

So this is implying that only others make mistakes and you never do.

Well, you're still walking in the pasture.

Yeah, sure. Its plainly obvious the last word must be given to you. Just do us all a favor and dont get hurt falling off your high horse.

Oh, I almost forgot. Yes, I can say that I do not make those mistakes. I follow my own routine that has proven safe and effective.

 

[jcwit]

Oh, I almost forgot. Yes, I can say that I do not make those mistakes. I follow my own routine that has proven safe and effective.

Best of luck!

[QUOTEYes, I can say that I do not make those mistakes][/QUOTE]

Yet! Total perfection is only known to a higher power.

 

[ranger335v]

"The reason you are pulling the bullet in the first place is "YOU screwed up". So if you think that for one second YOU can't screw up a second time you may very easily prove yourself WRONG!!"

Joe, you've drawn an invalid conclusion, based on no evidence.

I've pulled hundreds of bullets; not one was because I "screwed up." Most were pulled because I found a better shooting load and wished to salvage the old components; that's no screw up. A few hundred were pulled because I had sold the firearms they were made for and wished to salvage the components; that's no screw up. Quite a few were military pull-downs. Etc. Anyone who hasn't encountered that sort of thing hasn't been reloading for long.

On the impact puller issue, I question the truth of the linked post with photos showing how a cartridge discharged in an impact pullet. In fact, I don't believe it occured as we are being told; it's just not possible. If you have an impact puller, put a loaded round in it being held by both the factory collet and then a shell holder and look through to the primer. Try to imagine how ANYTHING about the puller and either the collet or a shell holder could possibly put a dent in the primer the way the nice close-up photo shows; that's just not possible due to using a shell holder.

Also, look at the dented, spent primer in place and ask youirself IF that primer could have detonated as we are supposed to believe, would it have stayed in the pocket AND actually be seated lower than a normal depth? Naw. Pretty good story and great photos but I just don't believe it happened that way. I don't know what hit that primer but it wasn't a shell holder! I can't help but feel the poor guy did something very foolish, like hammering it upside down and hitting on a something that entered the hole in the cap. THEN he cooked up that BS "shell holder" story for his wife! But he sorta "shot himself in the foot" with that one very good photo of the intact but badly dented primer still sitting in place.

So far as doing some things differently, if I weren't willing to try things different ways and had to follow beginner level book "instructions" mechanically and to the letter, I probably wouldn't reload at all, I'd likely just shoot factory ammo. But those of us who want to learn will often try doing some things differently, will we not? I've tried and been using shell holders in my impact pullers a long time, some 46 years and counting. That experience assures me it's not a major hazard.

 

[Foto Joe]

Joe, you've drawn an invalid conclusion, based on no evidence.
I've pulled hundreds of bullets; not one was because I "screwed up." Most were pulled because I found a better shooting load and wished to salvage the old components; that's no screw up. A few hundred were pulled because I had sold the firearms they were made for and wished to salvage the components; that's no screw up. Quite a few were military pull-downs. Etc. Anyone who hasn't encountered that sort of thing hasn't been reloading for long.

Good point, and yes I'm more than likely guilty of getting my back up a little bit about this. From my point of view, I detest using that puller because it means I goofed. And as much as I seek perfection, it just ain't gonna happen. There are other very valid reasons for pulling bullets as you have mentioned in the quote.

I'm not one of those people who think that the instruction writers are Godlike. But on the other hand, we're not talking brain surgery here, it's a simple enertial/kinetic bullet puller. If the O-ring breaks stop in at Napa or Autozone and pay 15 cents for an O-ring and while you're at it, buy a couple of spares. Do I find the 3 piece collet a pain, you bet!! There's nothing like trying to set up a large cartridge like a 45 Colt or 44 WCF in that thing and have one third of it deploy onto the floor. Whether or not the link and thread given originally or subsequently are truth or a story, I figure that I've got enough left over seconds in my life that I can bend over and pick up the offending one third of the collet that dropped onto the floor. I've participated in a number of very high risk occupations in my life, ones that could get you dead if you didn't pay attention. I've been taught that risk can pay high dividends, but failing to mitigate the risk can have dire consequences.

I think what irks me is people who proclaim that the person who made a mistake is an idiot and that could never happen to them, 'cause they're just too careful or they're better than that. We've all been idiots at some time in our lives, most of us live through it and learn from it.

"The difference between ignorance and stupidity is: Ignorance is curable! The issue then becomes, should you fail to treat and cure the ignorance it can lead to stupidity. Not only is stupidity incurable, it can also be fatal." author Unknown

 

[ranger335v]

"The difference between ignorance and stupidity is: Ignorance is curable! The issue then becomes, should you fail to treat and cure the ignorance it can lead to stupidity. Not only is stupidity incurable, it can also be fatal." author Unknown"

Or, as my dumb son in law puts it, if ya gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tuff 'cause dumb hurts!

 

[earplug]

Shell Holder user here!

The shell holders are machined steel. They cost more to manufacture then a alloy and o ring collet.
My point is the manufacture of the bullet remover makes what is cost effective.
There is plenty of unsupported case IMHO when using a shell holder instead of a factory collet.
The base of the cartridge is the thickest brass part and on the shell holders I use, at least 2/5th is untouched by the holder.
When the plastic end cap is screwed down I see no problem with the primer being impacted or sealed.

 

[James2]

I have loaded for over 50 years and never had a bullet puller. Hmmmmm.......

 

[cfullgraf]

It just dawned on me...

I looked at my shell holders. The RCBS and Lee shell holders that I have have reliefes cut in them the width of the hole in the center of the shell holder. Obviously something put there to allow for case with a raised primer to to exit or enter the shell holder. Probably put there for a primer that has been blown out a bit.

My Redding shell holders do not hae the relief cut in them.

Those with the relief would take a serious high primer for the primer to hit the shell holder.

In any case, I'm still convinced to use the collet for the once in a blue moon that I need to disassemble a round or two in my kinetic bullet puller.

Problem with the press mounted collet bullet pullers is they are almost if not completely impossible to use on many handgun rounds.

I am sure I would have discovered that if and when I needed to disassemble a large quantity of ammunition. Thanks.

 

[jmorris]

If there were no way to make something better we would still all be riding horses or at least driving a model T. Maybe communicating by telegraph as well.

In any case you would have to impact the bullet pullet upside down to put any force on the primer and that is if you happen to use a shell holder with no primer hole.

 

[jmorris]

Something else just occured to me. With the Ti and Sc S&W revolvers, they warn of and instruct in the manual to check for bullets pulling during firing. They never mention anything about other rounds going off from the recoil.

 

[HEAVY METAL 1]

"There's nothing like trying to set up a large cartridge like a 45 Colt or 44 WCF in that thing and have one third of it deploy onto the floor"

Try putting the cartridge in from the underside of the collet and it will go in more easily with less collet spontaneous dissassembly. Also depends on how springy the rubber O ring is. The more rigid it is the less forgiving and greater tendency to have the collet fall apart under pressure.

 

[Afy]

+1 on using a shell holder with the Frankford arsenal hammer puller.

 

[Foto Joe]

Try putting the cartridge in from the underside of the collet and it will go in more easily with less collet spontaneous dissassembly. Also depends on how springy the rubber O ring is. The more rigid it is the less forgiving and greater tendency to have the collet fall apart under pressure.

Luckily I don't have to practice this very much although the other day I was loading some mixed brass 44-40 and two of them I seated the bullet too low, as in way too low. The bullet puller and I seldom get to hold hands, but I managed to tap the bullets out far enough with it to re-seat without taking them all the way apart. I think my biggest problem with the 3-piece collet is my fat fingers no working the way they did when I was 30.

 

[howlnmad]

Using a "Shell Holder" is a bad idea. You may get away with it for a long time but think about it. The reason you are pulling the bullet in the first place is "YOU screwed up". So if you think that for one second YOU can't screw up a second time you may very easily prove yourself WRONG!!




An accident seldom happens simply because only one thing went wrong.

Actually the only rounds that I have ever knocked apart, are set-up dummy rounds and a couple hundred rifle rounds that I recieved from someone and they had no idea what and how much powder was used since they were given to him. So... should I have just shot these and hoped or reuse the components and build something I know is safe?:banghead: