OC Spray is no can of seasoning...

[orangeninja]

If you get ahold of a suspect, and someone yells spray, chances are you aren't gonna let go before that officer hits some spray on you two....just clench your eyes and turn your head away. Don't yell "wait a second" like I did.....it won't stop the officer and you'll be blind holding onto a bucking suspect who only wants one thing in life, you off of him and to be as far away from that spray as possible. Like riding a bull with your eyes closed I imagine.

 

[sam59]

Pepper Spray

I was somewhat suprised to hear a lot of people saying how effective pepper spray is. I have used it 20 + times over the past 10 years and it was effective maybe half the time. My experience was if the suspect was intoxicated they did not even slow down their evil doing. I emptied a 3 ounce can on a guy (Native American) and it was literally running down his face and he just looked at me and it was on. Now comes the bad part, I had him in a headlock on the ground while back up was coming, meanwhile I was grinding the pepper juice into my forearm from his chin and neck. That burned into the next day, I think I forced it into my pores. In addition I observed suspects laugh at a Taser when we first got them. That was until they took a 5 second ride on the spincter squeeze express. It is rare they want any more of that. A lot less clean up to. Good times I tell yeh.

 

[Lupinus]

What on earth is the purpose of OCing police recruits? So that they'll know it hurts?

How do they let them know it hurts to get shot?

I'd say about the same reason army (or all military, don't know who does and who doesn't) recruits are put into a room with gas masks on, high strength tear gas fills the room, and then they are ordered to remove masks. Lets them know what it feels like, how to deal with it, and what to expect. Basically it keeps them from panicing because they know what to expect. Kind of like letting your kid spin out in the snow where there is nothing to hit, lets them know what the sliding and spinning feels like so they don't panic and then how to get out of it. An empty parking lot and my grandfather making me do doughnut after doughnut was my first lesson in winter driving, how to stop the spin and get out of those doughnuts as well as stopping the spin from ever going from the first bit of sliding made up the second. I have drivin in some really bad storms (in an 87 camaro no less, try one in a bad rain storm even, these are not good poor weather cars) and have never gotten into a spin I wasn't able to get out of, the only full 360's I have ever done were all intentional. Same thing goes here, they know what it feels like and what to expect so they don't panic, and then secondly so they know how to fight through it or at least get to safty.

In the case of the military it also teachs them to trust their gas masks because they have been in an enviroment where they know for a fact it has protected them. I guess to certian extents it teachs the police to trust their equipment as well, in their case the OC they carry since they know first hand how debilitating it can be.

 

[stiletto raggio]

OC is probably the worst thing that ever happened to me. It sucks. REALLY BAD. In terms of pain inflicted, I would rather get kicked repeatedly in the groin, have bones broken, etc.

CS is NOTHING compared to OC. And talk about debilitation... I would be worthless in combat or in dealing with a suspect. All things considered, I agree witht he post about considering it as deadly force if a suspect uses it on you: shoot to kill, because in five seconds, God knows what they will do to you.

 

[Sam]

Every 2 weeks I dose somewhere from 60-175 troops with OC.
They are then required to move along a 75 yard course, employing thier baton in offensive and defensive roles, 2 takedowns and securing 2 detainees). 75% are able to complete the course and tasks with only verbal encouragement or shouting a direction for them to move when vision gets bad. 15 percent get badly effected by it and have to be lead through the course and try the tasks by feel, 10% scream, cry like babies and blow snot and boogers all over my compound. Every single 1 will complete the task prior to deployment so they come back and do it the next day and the next til they get it right or are washed out. Have not had a wash out since last October.
In the course of this I manage to get hit pretty good 2-3 times a month and handle people soaked in it daily.

Is OC any good?, it is better than Mace or CS. I'm almost to the point where I'll consider it a condiment and put it on my omlet OC does not incapacitate, it distracts. You may put a bad hurting on somebody with it but he will still be capable of putting a hurt on you if he can get hold of you.
I personally will never depend on the stuff. I can incapacitate folks with a baton and have a lot more options available.
Additionally OC does not have the psychological effect of a baton either. Most everybody in the world has been hit with a stick at one time or another and they can relate on a very basic level. Few can comprehend or relate being sprayed with anything as something to avoid.
Some of my trainees have used it on large groups of detainees with decent effect. We have 3 gallon dispensors available for riot operations and it has worked well in that role.

I'll train people with it and issue it because D.A. says I have to, but that is a long way from having any confidence in it. I do not carry the stuff personally and not likely to start anytime soon.

Sam

 

[Biker]

The Chinese armies of 2000 years ago used to grind up OC then put it in water and soak rice paper in the vile liquid. After drying the rice paper, they set it on fire upwind of opposing armies, letting the OC smoke blow into their ranks.
Wily folks, those Sun Tzu types.

Biker

 

[tellner]

The Chinese armies of 2000 years ago used to grind up OC then put it in water and soak rice paper in the vile liquid.

I don't think that's possible. Peppers are a New World plant. They couldn't have hit Asia more than a few hundred years ago.

 

[tellner]

I've been OCed twice, both times by accident. It was bad, but not as bad as a lot of other things that have happened to me, certainly not as bad as cutting habaneros without gloves. The last time I talked with an OC trainer in a local police department I was given all sorts of bunk and hokum about how this was better for "civilian" self defense than a gun. I made my standard offer. He gets OC and can spray me in his S-pattern, the spray and retreat tactic or whatever he wants. I get a wooden knife with lipstick on the point and edge. $5/cut. $10/stab. No more than $1000. He wouldn't take me up on it

 

[Jeff White]

All OC is not created equal. Don't select OC based on what % of active ingrediant it contains. Select it based on what active ingrediant it contains. There should be labeling that will tell you how many Scoville Heat Units the OC is. The more Scoville Heat units it puts out the hotter it is and the greater incapacitation capabilty.

Percent of pepper only helps you when planning decontamination.
Jeff

 

['Card]

I don't know much about OC, but I can tell you exactly why the Army gases recruits during training.

That type of pain conditions your responses better than anything else on the planet. I went through Basic nearly 20 years ago, but right now, at this moment, if someone was to burst into this room where I'm sitting and yell "Gas!!" - I can tell you exactly what I'd do. My hands would reach instantly for my left hip, even though I haven't carried a gas mask there since 1990.

In spite of the pain though, there are times when I think I'd almost like to get gassed again - like when I'm fighting a really nasty sinus infection. After a few minutes in that room, I had stuff coming out of my nasal passages that had been in there since birth.

 

[Biker]

Tellner...

The use of capsicum actually goes back to the Han Dynasty. Apparantly, when the Chinese invaded and annexed North Viet Nam they discovered the evil stuff.

Here's one quick reference...


http://www.zarc.com/english/cap-stun/reports/dugwayreport.html

Biker

 

[hoji]

Biker's right.
It is part of the curriculum for Basic OC Certification,I teach it once a month.

 

[the naked prophet]

I've never been hit with OC, but I have gotten habanero in my eyes

It was at the missouricarry.com christmas party, at an indoor shooting range. I brought some chili (hot and mild) for the pot luck. For the hot, I put 12 habaneros in a half-gallon of chili. Not just any habaneros. Some sort of locally-grown mutant deformed extra-hot habaneros I bought at the local hippie organic food store.

Long story short, I was eating some of my chili when I got an eyelash in my eye. I reflexively rubbed my eye. Bad idea. Within seconds, I was in the bathroom, washing my eye with water. That didn't help. There was snot flowing from my nose, tears pouring from my eyes.

Shortly afterwards, I was shooting again. I didn't do great, because I could not focus on my sights, but I tried the AIS Live Fire Simulator (this was at High Caliber, near St. Louis) and did okay. My wife did better than me, except for that one tourist...

I guess my point is that even after OC, I was able to shoot effectively.

It was not pleasant, but like mentioned above, was only a distraction.

 

[pax]

I took an OC class last year. Since I'm asthmatic, I elected not to get sprayed and instead watched through a window as the rest of the class went through that part of the training.

One woman in the class took three hits of the stuff. First time she just blinked and said, "Is that it?" Instructor changed cans and hit her again. Second time, she shook her head and looked puzzled. Third hit still had no visible effect whatsoever. After a few minutes, she strolled over to the decontam area and splashed a little water on her face. And that was it.

pax

 

[Biker]

She's a badder man than me.

Biker

 

[pax]

Biker ~

Funny, that's what her husband said too.

pax

 

[tellner]

I'm afraid you're still wrong - http://www.botany.com/capsicum.htm

Capsicum is a New World plant. It wasn't introduced into China until well post-Columbus. Check out Raymond Sokolov's excellent "Why We Eat What We Eat" for details. Maybe "legend has it" that the Chinese used it. And maybe that story has become part of the popular mythology. It just didn't happen that way.

 

[crew590]

What on earth is the purpose of OCing police recruits? So that they'll know it hurts?

I believe that around here (Morgantown, WV) LEO's are required to be sprayed before they are allowed to carry OC on duty. As said before this is so they know the effects of it if they were to get sprayed on duty.

I could be completly wrong though.

Jay

 

[roo_ster]

What on earth is the purpose of OCing police recruits?

To get 'em all riled up, kinda like kicking a pit bull in the jimmy, and then send them after the bad guys.

 

[Coronach]

Police Recruits are sprayed for a couple of reasons:

1. It lets them know exactly what they're about to unleash on the poor sap on the receiving end. I dunno if you think that will make them more or less likely to use it, but it does demonstrate (quite effectively) that this is not a painless process.

2. Shows that it is possible to fight through the OC.

The latter point is important for a couple of reasons:

1. Anytime you spray someone, you're gonna get some on you. I have not once deployed OC on the street and not had some blowback, splashback, or cross contamination during the ensuing wrestling match. That crap just plain gets everywhere.

2. Someone might spray you. While it would certainly suck, it is not necessarily fatal (unless you just go fetal and wimper).

3. If you can function well enough to run from station to station and kick and punch, guess what? So can the dude you just hosed.

All in all, it was a valuable experience...and not one I'm in a hurry to try again any time soon. <----Literally.

Mike

 

[tellner]

To get 'em all riled up, kinda like kicking a pit bull in the jimmy, and then send them after the bad guys.

With the difference that they are less likely to turn and bite you than the dog. You hope

 

[TallPine]

I believe that around here (Morgantown, WV) LEO's are required to be sprayed before they are allowed to carry OC on duty. As said before this is so they know the effects of it if they were to get sprayed on duty.

Just wondering if the LEOs have to get shot before they may carry a gun ...

 

[FTF]

It's not a big thing. I was in NBC in the Marine Corps and I had the pleasure of visiting the gas chamber every few months for a few years. Of course, the "cop" OC is so much worse than chicken salad... lol... try clearing a 10 room house after being sprayed with your "fight ending" OC of which it is supposedly that much better than CS.

You CAN fight back when OC'd/maced.

Honestly... let someone shoot something burning hot into your eyes... I bet you'll fight back even more intensely.. at least I did/peeps that I know with me did. As long as you realize that it won't kill you... you just get over the burning and mucus expenditure lol. CS or OC won't kill you. Just swing. The worst part is the next day when you try to do laundry/iron anyways lol... reactivates the CS. Cops love to think they have all that extra special training, but it's basically just CS like every basic recuit gets... they won't use it unless 12 of them are standing around you anyways lol... how often do you hear of "cop maces perp 1v1" lol... never. They just shoot when the odds are with them.

Boy I sound rude. Show me a 1v1 situation where the cop uses mace/oc as a less-than-lethal alternative. Won't find anything relevant I bet!

 

[sam59]

Shot to carry a gun??

I read the response's about being shot before being able to carry a gun and I hear the same in person. Sometimes it's obvious people are joking but other times I am not so sure. It's pretty straight forward to me why an officer gets sprayed, maybe its just me but duhh.

 

[FedGunner]

Gentle folks, Fox 5.3. You will not "fight through it"
It is 15 minutes to "eyes open".(with constantly running water )
On bare skin it burns like the fires of hell. On mucus membranes? Death is preferable.
It tastes like BURNING!

I'd take a 15 second dose of "edison's medicine" before I would submit to a blast of Fox.