Odd CCW/LEO encounter today...

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

gp911

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2005
Messages
1,140
Location
OH
Ok, before I begin, let me just say I'm not posting this to complain about the officer's actions so I'm not looking to turn this into a cop-bashing thread.

So I was driving to work (about 2 hours away on this particular day) and an airplane apparently measured my speed at about 16mph over the limit on the freeway. That's probably the fastest I had driven that day and my speedometer suggested about 3mph lower, but honestly when it comes to speeding tickets I know I used up my speeder karma a long time ago so I don't nitpick. I know when I'm speeding and I know the consequences, no arguments here.

So a state trooper flags me down and I pull over. He asks for license & registration and I start my concealed carry spiel: "I'm required by law to inform you I have a concealed handgun license and am currently carrying a-"

Trooper: "Is there a weapon anywhere in the vehicle?"

Me: "Yes, I have a-"

Trooper: "Where is it?"

----now keep in mind the spotter plane is keeping this guy and another trooper busy pulling people over and radioing vehicle descriptions, etc. so he's kind of in a hurry and distracted----

Me: "It's holstered here (gesture) under my shirt."

Trooper: "Can you pull up your shirt for me?"

Me: "Uhh, yeah?" (pulls up shirt slowly & awkwardly while sitting in the car)

Trooper: "Okay uhh, hand it to me, butt first, and uhh, okay tell you what..."

He then reached down and pulled my gun out of my IWB holster and told me he'd bring it back in a minute. After writing my citation he walks back and hands me my gun with no magazine and the slide locked back. :scrutiny:

Trooper: "Here. Just put this away for now. I'll give you the rest in a minute."

Then he explains some other things related to the traffic stop and hands me back my loaded magazine and the bullet that was previously chambered in my pistol. After that he left me sitting there with a magazine and a bullet and my gun sitting on the seat. I honestly didn't feel comfortable picking the gun back up and reloading it while he was standing by the car in front of me so I had to do it when I got to work. It makes no sense to me to disarm somebody who tells you flat-out that they have a loaded gun on them & where they have it, and who had to pass a background check, etc. to obtain the "right" to do so. I have had about a half-dozen encounters with law enforcement over the past 4.5 years that I've had the permit (traffic stops, reported a burglary at work, etc.) and I've never had any of them actually make a point to take my gun from me and unload it. So weird...
 
It really doesn't make any sense. If he took the gun to "run it", why would someone in possession of a stolen firearm admit to having it in the first place? Must-inform laws only apply to the law-abiding, which by definition are people who you don't need to worry about.

Secondly, if he took it for "officer safety", why would he give it back to you before the end of the stop? How did he know you didn't have extra magazines for it? The mere fact that he wanted to hold on to your ammo for the rest of the stop indicates he didn't feel safe giving you back a loaded firearm...

I really do hope you guys in Ohio are able to get the must-inform statute repealed.
 
deffiantely odd...but from your description he did not seem aggressive or negative about your CCW....more unconfortable or cautious maybe? Was he a young guy, maybe new to the force and uncomfortable in what HE was supposed to do.

Don't get me wrong. These guys are trained and should know their job, but to me it sounded like the guy was either new or very preoccupied and acting strange but not negative.
 
Here in Or. we can carry with ccw or open carry. I am not able to afford the fees that we must pay. I am disabled & live on S.S. and so I choose open carry
Even tough it is leagle & most store &restaurants have no problem with them, you must be very careful with some LEOs.Some will treat you like you are a bank robbery suspect while others will not bat a eye. I am not sure why. I have spoken to LEOs. that I know &even they cannot tell me. They are not sure! Some say training, others say department reg.s I am still looking into this. But have none yet. Do not want argument! I am not accusing any one! Would like civil answer if anyone knows for sure.
 
The one time I have had an LEO ask to take it away from me, it was in a fanny pack, he just set it on the roof of my car out of my reach, and handed it back to me when he was done.

I personally think it's a bad idea for them to start clearing your gun. In my experience, a lot of cops are not too familiar with anything other than their service weapon. I would have to stifle a snicker if he tried to rack it with the safety on.
 
The last time a LEO requested me to relinquish my gun was in the midst of several "officer shoots suspect" trials, including one whom I personally know.
This officer had his hand on his gun the entire time of the stop. When he asked me to hand over the gun, his hand tensed on the butt of his own gun, pulling it slightly from its holster. I let him SEE me SEE him grip his weapon and said, "I'd feel safer if we both left our weapons where they were."

If I was a criminal, I wouldn't admit to having a weapon. I never understand why they want to take it.
 
I used to do this 4-5 years ago when I first started. I don't really know why now that I look back. That's why I stopped doing it. I realized that I really didn't have a right to disarm someone who is legally armed and, as others said, if someone tells you they have a gun they are probably not the kind of person you need to worry about. I think it was a combination of training and inexperience. We are trained that guns are a threat. As I've got a few years under my belt I've learned that while guns are absolutely still a threat, you have to look at the person possessing it. A lot of folks in KY carry guns and 99% are very good people that are polite and respectful, and I'm the same way to them. I did have a guy recently that, when I knocked on his door to let him know his shed had been broken into, answered the door with a 1911 in his hand. He apologized all over himself and laid the gun down on the porch as soon as he saw me. I did get knee deep in him though.....for laying that beautiful gun down on the wet floor in the rain!
 
Maybe he is looking to buy a new pistol and wanted to see how your's felt in his hand, but was embarrassed to do so in front of you so he checked it out in the squad :p
 
Cooger, I think you nailed it in all aspects.

To the OP, I would feel extremely uncomfortable for an officer to lean in my car and disarm me, but especially taking it out from my IWB holster. Why should he put me at risk only to satisfy his feelings? That is simply not safe in my opinion.
 
It would be interesting to find out how (or if) the police now are trained to deal with CCW holders or if it's just "person with a gun". As I recall, my academy class (1995) hardly touched on CCW.
 
lean in, grab my weapon, pull it from my holster, and almost surely muzzle my pelvis, both femoral arteries and my dangly bits with a loaded gun?
And then back to their cruiser for an attempt to clear, a serial # run, and some fondling?

How about NO.

Unsafe, un-needed, and unacceptable. I would be filing a complaint based on the safety aspect.
 
My gut reaction would be that you drew the cop that day who had limited exposure to legal CCW. I went years without being pulled over and got it twice within three months for different bulbs burned out (one license plate light and one headlight I had a replacement and on my way home to change it). Both cops were polite and seemed totally unphased by a CCW. I informed and they simply acknowleged it, no further discussion or gyrations.
 
I have had similar experiences

I also think it has a lot to do with level of training. I had a newly minted State trooper pull me over for an expired sticker. He saw a loaded mag in my console and about wet himself. He asked me if there were any loaded guns in the car and already had started to draw his weapon. I told him there were a couple and asked if he would like to see my permit. This kid was really nervous. He seemed almost disappointed when I showed him my permit. He asked me why I carried and I told him that it was my right to. He was not happy with that answer.
Another time I was pulled over for not having a flag on wood sticking out the back of my truck more than 4 feet. I told the sheriff that I had a gun and permit. He told me to step out of the vehicle and took my gun from the console and unloaded it. During the stop 2 more patrol cars showed up and they ended up playing show and tell with my gun. This guy was no rookie by the way. He really was pretty nice once he decided that he didn't need to shoot me and we ended up talking about guns and shooting for a bit. Most of my other experiences have been much more pleasant. I haven't been stopped for a while and I don't need to tell them that I have a gun so I don't know how I will handle it in the future.
 
I'll admit my nerves jumped as I watched him sweep my nether regions with my loaded gun, without much warning to boot. As someone else stated, it's unsafe and unnecessary. I agree that I probably drew the guy without much lawful CCW experience. Other officers I've dealt with from other State Troopers, Deputy Sheriffs, & one local cop, all just said okay and maybe asked where it was or what kind of gun I carried. If anything it seemed to relax them a little when I notified them, which is why I've never really felt bothered by the duty to inform clause before now. I honestly would have felt more comfortable being made to get out of the car so he could safely unholster the gun, if that was what would put him at ease. Regardless, in any encounter of this type I just sit quietly, smile, and do as I'm told because I figure the officer is already on edge. I'm not sure what training they receive on these encounters, maybe they're told to use their own discretion. As I noted before, he was part of a big speed trap that was very busy so he was somewhat hurried through his usual routine. Maybe he would have handled it a little more smoothly had it been a more typical stop.

Thanks for all the replies and feedback so far! Very interesting reading in here!
 
I realized that I really didn't have a right to disarm someone
Cougar 3rd post
Making cops look good since what... Dec 9 ?
Let me welcome you home;here, Cougar.
robert
 
You relate a story about a cop doing something illogical and potentially dangerous, and you don't want it to become a "cop bashing" thread?

;)
 
To the OP:

It would be interesting to place a call to the State Police and ask if this is a standard procedure, something that is taught but at the officers discretion, or just something this individual officer did on his or her own initiative.
 
It's all dependent on the situation. If it's a regular traffic stop for speed, equipment violation, etc. and they tell me they have a pistol, I just tell them to not reach in that direction while I'm with them. They have no issue with that and most just keep their hands on the steering wheel.

ETA: and yes, before someone mentions it, I know there is no ROUTINE traffic stop ;)
 
He then reached down and pulled my gun out of my IWB holster ...
Click to expand...
So, you might be someone "of interest" who it is worthwhile that he disarm, and you might be carrying a gun that he needs to check out to see if it comes back stolen... oh kay.

So the logical thing to do is to abandon his dominant/safe position behind your shoulder and the B-pillar and lean into the vehicle far enough to retrieve a firearm from a holster at your waist? Putting himself entirely at your mercy while he secures your weapon?

It almost doesn't matter WHAT the situation is, crawling half into the vehicle at contact distance to the driver is NOT standard for any police procedure! More like a textbook warning scenario of how to get shot/stabbed/dragged or otherwise killed on the job. :(
 
I always inform the cop that i have concealed carry permit but always allow them to ask if i'm currently armed. I can see how stating one is armed may seem somewhat threatening even if worded in the most benign way possible.

If a cop ever asks me to hand them my weapon i will respectfully inform them that i would prefer they grab the weapon themself.
 
i will respectfully inform them that i would prefer they grab the weapon themself.
Click to expand...
Yes...as I said in Post 23: "Officer, I'd prefer you climb in through the window, into my lap, and get it yourself..."

Really, there's almost no GOOD way to disarm the driver of a stopped car, but there are several REAL BAD ones.

Asking me to draw the gun? Uh...no. Climbing into the car with me to get it yourself? Hardly better. (If I'm a real bad guy, that's when you'll discover a knife or gun muzzle sliding beneath the lower edge of your vest... or that the car's in gear and we're going for a ride/drag. Really...this is a horrible idea.)

Asking the driver to step out of the car with hands visible, turn and place hands on the roof, then disarm from behind is probably the safest (though still a BIG risk). And it invites questions of why we're treating a speeder discovered to be carrying as though they're armed and dangerous?

If we accept that the officer should put him/her self at a grave disadvantage while securing the driver's gun, then we really are admitting that we don't believe the driver to be any danger at all, and we're just performing a search (and harassment) without any articulable justification.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
LEO encounter
Replies
24
Views
2K
TonyB
T
T
  • Locked
Encounter with AZ HP
2
Replies
41
Views
2K
Bwana John
Bwana John
R
  • Locked
First LEO encounter while carrying.
2
Replies
46
Views
3K
Preacherman
P
T
  • Locked
One extremely LUCKY State Trooper!
Replies
10
Views
1K
ARKIESTEEL
A
K
  • Locked
Where's a cop when you need one?
Replies
18
Views
965
Fed168
F
Back
Top