Odd CCW/LEO encounter today...

[ATBackPackin]

You relate a story about a cop doing something illogical and potentially dangerous, and you don't want it to become a "cop bashing" thread?

Really? I didn't think so at all. It looks like some people think that this particular officers action was unsafe, but not bashing at all.

Now if an officer felt it was necessary to disarm me, I would instead prefer that they took my holster with gun still safely inside. Then if they wanted to look at the gun for whatever reason they could have it pointed in a safe direction to remove it from its holster. Further I would want them to return it to me in the same condition they took it or unloaded and slide to the rear.

 

[Loosedhorse]

IMHO, he should not have disarmed you. But he gets to decide that, until someone brings legal action to make him stop. In NM, the state Supreme Court has decided that the police disarming any detainee for the duration of the stop is always legal.

But, at least he handled the gun himself. I will not touch my gun if the LEO tells me to disarm. Too much room for misinterpretation. He can have it, I will cooperate fully: but I will not touch the gun.

 

[Drail]

The whole "it's for officer safety" thing has nothing to do with officer safety. It has everything to do with complete and total submission to the uniform and the badge. Seizing a sidearm from a licensed citizen who has voluntarily informed you that he's carrying is making the situation more unsafe than it would be if everyone involved simply kept their hands off their sidearms. Ever watch someone you don't know try to clear a gun they have never handled before? If a criminal wanted to shoot a cop who has pulled him over why would he inform the cop that he's carrying? If I asked an LEO to allow me to hold his sidearm while we're talking because I don't "feel safe" in that situation wouldn't that be just about as absurd as him taking mine?:banghead:

 

[SwampWolf]

You relate a story about a cop doing something illogical and potentially dangerous, and you don't want it to become a "cop bashing" thread?

And how is recounting an incident about "a cop doing something illogical and potentially dangerous" (your words) to be construed as "cop bashing" if his actions weren't illogical and dangerous? Some posters apparently feel that the trooper's actions were logical and not dangerous and some feel otherwise. Evaluating the merits of this trooper's specific behavior when confronting a motorist who was legally armed seems to me to be an appropriate discussion in this forum and much might be learned from the encounter if one keeps an open mind.
Not that it matters so much in terms of relevancy to the topic at hand but I have thirty years of le experience and I cannot see how the op's relating his experience with the trooper in this "minor adventure" in any way amounts to "cop bashing".

 

[WinThePennant]

Really? I didn't think so at all. It looks like some people think that this particular officers action was unsafe, but not bashing at all.

Now if an officer felt it was necessary to disarm me, I would instead prefer that they took my holster with gun still safely inside. Then if they wanted to look at the gun for whatever reason they could have it pointed in a safe direction to remove it from its holster. Further I would want them to return it to me in the same condition they took it or unloaded and slide to the rear.

I'm in agreement with another poster that this behavior is borderline harassment. That's not bashing, that is just an honest assessment.

 

[P-32]

Dealing with CCW is pretty much left up to the Officer in most cases I've seen. I Washington State where I live there is no requirement to inform the Officer your carrying. When I was working the road and someone told me they had a CCW and were carrying this told me a couple of things. 1. I'm more than likely dealing with a good person. 2. This person at some point could be my back up someday. Sometimes my backup might be 25 miles away. A CCW person was given a little more tolerance if so informed because 3. I felt like they were thinking of my safety.

If I knew the person was a good person who might have had a brain fart one time, an education was often in order.

If I saw a gun, meaning pistol, not the rifle in the gun rack, and was not informed only to find no CCW, not going to the range etc, then there might be a problem. Those who I knew where up to no good (gang) would get jacked up a little with gun taken if I could and charged adding as many traffic infractions I could find. This slowed a bunch of goofy stuff.

I know it makes a person upset when an Officer asks for your firearm. He could be young or the radio may have put out some information and you looked close. We do stop people for things other than a traffic infraction. My best warrant was for $1.75 million with 11 counts of sexual assault.

Over the years, I've handled a bunch of different firearms, including a 105 Howitser. 105's are a hoot. Ma Duces are not far behind. Not bad for a airdale Navy guy huh.

 

[WinThePennant]

The whole "it's for officer safety" thing has nothing to do with officer safety. It has everything to do with complete and total submission to the uniform and the badge. Seizing a sidearm from a licensed citizen who has voluntarily informed you that he's carrying is making the situation more unsafe than it would be if everyone involved simply kept their hands off their sidearms. Ever watch someone you don't know try to clear a gun they have never handled before? If a criminal wanted to shoot a cop who has pulled him over why would he inform the cop that he's carrying? If I asked an LEO to allow me to hold his sidearm while we're talking because I don't "feel safe" in that situation wouldn't that be just about as absurd as him taking mine?:banghead:

+1

Well said.

 

[mgmorden]

I've never been stopped while carrying before. I have been stopped on the way back from the range before, and the officer asked about it when he saw a shot up target on the seat. At the time my gun was in a case in the trunk so no problems there. He did look the car over HARD though.

He asked about something he saw in the floorboard of the back seat which was an empty holster I had tossed back there after I was done. I reached back and picked up the holster to show him it was empty. Thinking back I probably reacted a bit too quickly to grabbing that when he asked about it, but I didn't think about it at the time. Either way, nothing came of it.

In your specific case, I think it was probably not a good idea for him to reach in and pull your gun from your holster himself, but I'd say for this one that all's well that ends well. You probably just got a younger/newer cop who hadn't run into the situation before and was a bit nervous on how to handle it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

gp911,

Not really odd at all. You invited the police officer to handle your gun (becauase you had to by law). The police officer accepted your invitation. Lucky in Washington state my laws do not require me to invite a police officer to handle my gun, so I won't.

3. I felt like they were thinking of my safety.

How does a person who is in legal possession of a firearm and has no intentions of harming the police officer make the police officer any more safe by telling them about the lawfully possessed firearm that they have no intention of using or handling?

While you may feel they were thinking about your safety, common sense would say they were more likely looking for:

A CCW person was given a little more tolerance if so informed

I used to do this 4-5 years ago when I first started. I don't really know why now that I look back. That's why I stopped doing it. I realized that I really didn't have a right to disarm someone who is legally armed and, as others said, if someone tells you they have a gun they are probably not the kind of person you need to worry about. I think it was a combination of training and inexperience. We are trained that guns are a threat. As I've got a few years under my belt I've learned that while guns are absolutely still a threat, you have to look at the person possessing it. A lot of folks in KY carry guns and 99% are very good people that are polite and respectful, and I'm the same way to them. I did have a guy recently that, when I knocked on his door to let him know his shed had been broken into, answered the door with a 1911 in his hand. He apologized all over himself and laid the gun down on the porch as soon as he saw me. I did get knee deep in him though.....for laying that beautiful gun down on the wet floor in the rain!

You, sir, get a standing ovation:

 

[BridgeTooFar]

I've been stopped several times after I got my CWP (and several before - sort of an admitted lead foot), and every time, I've had a gun in the center console (which is legal without the CWP) but not on me. I've informed of my CWP (although I'm not certain we have to here anymore - I know it used to be the rule, but I've been told that's changed) because that was what I was taught. Haven't mentioned the gun in the truck unless asked. I just show them my CWP with my license and let them ask me about a gun.

Only once has the officer/patrolman/trooper asked me to open the console, but it was only after I told him I had a locking vault in there (ConsoleVault) and only to see what I meant by that because he wanted one.

Maybe it's being in the south, maybe I've just been lucky the 5+ times I've been stopped, but it never really seemed to bother them and the most I got other than that one time was, "keep it in console, and I'll keep mine in the holster, ok?" or "you don't have to go into the console for your license or registration do you?" (which I don't).

As to the OP's experience, I'd have probably tried to make him more uncomfortable by asking to be fed dinner first or something. I wouldn't have been happy about the officer doing that, but what choice do you really have if you don't want to be shot (at)? Might go so far as to follow up on this officer to determine if what he did was against a reg or something, and if so, talk to his superior. If not, I'd just let it lay because it'll just end up being a waste of your time to pursue it.

 

[krupparms]

I would like to thank Cooger for doing what is right! I had a very unpleasant encounter with a LEO last year.His department was advised to make a settlement out of court. But this matter will probably go to court. I hate to do so as it will cause problems! But as a good LEO pointed out . It is the right thing to do! I would like to say more about this! But cannot for obvious reasons. I will tell whole thing when I can. I am not against LEOs, I was one at one time & support them, unless they break the law! I would like to say Marry X-Mas. &Happy New Year to all the men&women in the service or LEOs or Emergency Worker's. May God be watching over you.

 

[SSN Vet]

I'm wondering if the LEO was thinking in his head....

"rats, you had to go and tell me that.... now I have to play this stupid game... "

I don't get Ohio..... on one had they seem as down home middle America as you can get, but on the other, they often come off looking more like a southern CA nanny/police state. Ohio is geographically huge, with a lot of wooded and farm land, but many don't realize that the state has a population of some 12 million.

 

[msparks]

I just don't understand this cop needing to disarm someone.

Don't cops have the majority of ND's that we hear about. It just seems so unsafe both for an officer and the civilian to be "playing with" unfamilar guns.

1. Who know what kind of gun the person has or has done do it. What if they have some sort of Cocked and locked with a 2# trigger and the cop who has never messed with a 1911 shoots himself or worse the yet person he pulled over.

I believe there are many a person who are not too familiar with their guns who could even be so nervous as to have a ND while handing over the gun. Then who is to blame.


I would be more prone to advise the person to not move their hands.

If I were pulled over and treated like that I would call or write the station chief and advise how dangerous a policy this is.

Myself, once my gun is holstered (when I leave the house) I dare not to mess with it. The only time it comes out is to go into the Post office. Then I'm really careful re-holstering.

Call me paranoid, just being safe is my #1 concern.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Didn't seem like too bad of an encounter to me.

It sounded ok to me too ... right up to the point where the cop reaches in the car and pulls the gun out of the IWB holster.

That is just asking for a ND, with your balls at point of aim.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Was he a young guy? New troopers aren't as swift as the seasoned ones, and this might just have been "growing pains". The securing of your weapon by the officer is a specified and apparently accepted practice in Ohio, as the CCW class I attended stated that an officer MIGHT do this if he deemed it necessary or part of his routine. This is just an example of an officer flexing his muscles and "control" of a given situation. I think it is a lame practice (mind you, I was a cop in Ohio for 15 years, but prior to the CCW law being enacted), as you were backgrounded, and licensed, and unless he was trusting you to NOT have other weapons right at hand...I am assuming he didn't seach or "frisk" at all....just took your word, or assumed you only had one gun at your disposal. There is the silliness of it all. How did he know you didn't have another gun, or were a threat to him? Seems like it was to give himself a sense of security, while ignoring the other possibilities of risk. I used to ALWAYS consider everyone armed, and acted accordingly....vigilance, preparedness, a plan for escape or cover, etc, just in case the stop turns ugly. What would he have done if there were 5 people in the car?

 

[UnbrakableX]

To the OP: If you don't mind me asking, where in Ohio was this? I'm just curious...I'd never heard of using aircraft to catch speeders in Ohio.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Nothing new. They move around. They used to do it on I76 at I71 as I recall.

 

[gym]

Sounds like he did what someone told him was the way to do it. As for it making sense, these things rarelly do.

 

[D94R]

I told the sheriff that I had a gun and permit. He told me to step out of the vehicle and took my gun from the console and unloaded it.

And that is why my window goes up and my door gets locked with the keys inside the truck. They want in to finger f$(% my property, then they are gonna need a warrant. I do have keypad access, so not everyone could benifit from this, but even keyless entry with the keys in your pocket keeps them out without warrant.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I am not unsympathetic to a LEO wanting to disarm you, but I wish they would not, as, realistically, this introduces a needless element of risk or danger. Is he or she likely to know how to decock a CZ75 or 1911 (neither of which are common US LEO sidearms), for example? This sounds like a good way to have a AD/ND. And "'running' the serial number" is a borderline illegal search, IMO, as there was no probable cause.

Ohio, I note, is relatively new to CCW. Perhaps as LEOs gain experience they will be less likely to want to disarm permit holders. In the one encounter I had - in AZ, where seemingly everyone is armed to the teeth - the officer, upon noting my permit (this was in 2007) had no interest in the gun I was carrying, other than to tell me to leave it alone.

 

[leadcounsel]

I've had to tell officers a few times, and they've never given it much attention.

I would feel uncomfortable either drawing or having the officer draw my sidearm... drawing it may look or appear suspect later on or to witnesses, and if he reaches in your car he's likely going to sweep you with it if he pulls it from your person.

 

[dcludwig]

To the OP: If you don't mind me asking, where in Ohio was this? I'm just curious...I'd never heard of using aircraft to catch speeders in Ohio.

Trust me, they do! I got one about 20 years ago from the "bear-in-the-air" (which was actually OSHP aircraft "rented" by the local Dayton police). I used to carry a CB in my truck for just such reasons and during nice weather you'd hear the "bear-in-the-air" warning broadcast by truckers every couple of weeks or so. The OSHP will usually have several cars working an area and signalling people over.

To the OP: he took your weapon BECAUSE HE COULD. If you queried him as to why he felt the need to do so, in contrast to all the reasons quoted in this thread as to why he SHOULDN'T have, he would probably say "safety". Though, as many have said on here, there are so many things that could wrong in disarming someone that he KNOWS has a good record and is one of the least potential threats he will come across.

As far as cop-bashing - I work in the telecom field. Perhaps the company I work for provides your local phone service. MOST of the techs I work for are very good techs, but yeah, we do have a couple of weiners. So does Walmart, so does Sears, so do the various LE agencies. IF you get poor service provided by one of my co-workers, you should feel free to vent - in fact, I hope you do. I would also like to think you don't judge all telecom techs based on one bad tech or one bad experience. And I wouldn't consider your bringing the bad experience to light as "telecom tech bashing".

I would wager that 99% of those who frequent this board have great respect for LEOs and even in this thread, I've not seen any "bashing". The LEOs that I know and have had encounters with, I think pretty well of them. But if you have viewed the link in my tagline you'll see I've come across one or two that were doing there job in a not-so-good manner. Doesn't change my overall opinion of LEO's, however.

 

[Sam1911]

...just took your word, or assumed you only had one gun at your disposal. There is the silliness of it all. How did he know you didn't have another gun, or were a threat to him? Seems like it was to give himself a sense of security, while ignoring the other possibilities of risk.

Precisely.

"I consider this person a potential risk, so I need to disarm them. To do so, I'm going to place myself at contact distance from this person's unsecured front, bent over in a natural pinch-point, with my head and arms inside the vehicle, my weapon(s) outside the vehicle, off-balance, with very limited visibility, and no way to create distance, defend myself, or escape should they desire to enact any of several very simple attacks."

While is isn't wise to assume a negative motive to actions that can easily be explained through poor critical thinking or stupidity -- it is little wonder that some would look at these factors as evidence that this action is NOT a safety function, but a control/dominance function. That reflects badly on the officer.

 

[Ignition Override]

As a guy with no handgun training and only a little sporadic exposure, my question involves what I read about a new type of holster.

Is one of the main risks when somebody inserts a handgun into a specific style of new holster, where a small part can catch the trigger?

Could the awkwardness and road noise of a traffic stop interrupt normal safe, routine habit patterns for an LEO or CCW person? The noise itself is enough of a distraction, as in other situations.

 

[jmstevens2]

I've seen 2 OSP Cessna and 2 OSP helicopters in the same place at the same time. We have 12 motorcycle troopers here in SW Ohio now too. Not to mention the 2 armored SWAT vehicles they have now.
They didn't used to patrol in the major cities either, now Cincinnati and Dayton are always covered.

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