Also interesting how police behavior is becoming more predictable. Any idiot can see a pattern developing.
I see the sunset is reddish orange tonight, but thats no reason to think its going to be warm tomorrow...
Officer cuts off woman's finger
- Thread starter Daniel T
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Also interesting how police behavior is becoming more predictable. Any idiot can see a pattern developing.
I see the sunset is reddish orange tonight, but thats no reason to think its going to be warm tomorrow...
Tripletap?
Edward...finger outside the triggerguard.
And I disagree. I think that events like this get media play, the same way that shooting sprees at schools do. Does this mean that shootings at schools are more prevalent now than they were before?
Mike
Edward...finger outside the triggerguard.
And I disagree. I think that events like this get media play, the same way that shooting sprees at schools do. Does this mean that shootings at schools are more prevalent now than they were before?
Mike
Lawyers may be able to answer this: I think it is legally significant for the idiot--er officer invovled that the knife used was NOT issued by the department (as they clearly stated), my guess is there is some provision about personal weapons being a no no in the rules. He is going to give his house and most all of his other possessions to this woman. The city is going to be sued also, but he going to get it as a person.
He DESERVES to give his house and all of his possessions to his victim. He also deserves to spend several years in a state penitentiary in the general population as an example to his peers.
Lonnie Jaycox,
Nah, most all cops carry knives. Spydiecos, Benchmades, what-have-you.
As you may have gathered from the responses of the various TFL LEOs, however, this Detroit officer may be kinda unique in what he thinks it is supposed to be used for.
Nah, most all cops carry knives. Spydiecos, Benchmades, what-have-you.
As you may have gathered from the responses of the various TFL LEOs, however, this Detroit officer may be kinda unique in what he thinks it is supposed to be used for.
Let's see......
I have used my Spyderco to cut fingerprint tape, packing tape, rope from a hanging victim, rope from a robbery victims and a few other items.
I don't recall any body parts.
I have not seen the need to cut the clothes off of someone I am trying to arrest.
I'm just not seeing it happening. Nope, wouldn't be prudent.
I have used my Spyderco to cut fingerprint tape, packing tape, rope from a hanging victim, rope from a robbery victims and a few other items.
I don't recall any body parts.
I have not seen the need to cut the clothes off of someone I am trying to arrest.
I'm just not seeing it happening. Nope, wouldn't be prudent.
*snort*
One of my back-up weapons is a five-inch push dagger from Cold Steel, Defender 1, I think.
Anyhoo, I was shucking my arsenal into a lock-box prior to entering the jail, and a veteran officer sees the blade, turns to his rookie partner and says, "A lot of officers carry those kinds of knives because you can grab a suspect with the same hand you're holding the knife in."
After shooting coffee out my nose, I quietly took the veteran aside and kind of hinted that he might not ought to pull the rookies leg like that.
I will spam thee not, the next day he comes into the office and shows me a Cold Steel catalog with an article in it saying that officers could grab a suspect while holding a push knife between the fingers.
I about spit. Are they nuts?!
Folks, a sharp instrument has no place in a handcuffing officers hands during the handcuffing phase of an arrest - no more than a pistol belongs in the same officers hands.
Some peoples kids, I swear.
LawDog
One of my back-up weapons is a five-inch push dagger from Cold Steel, Defender 1, I think.
Anyhoo, I was shucking my arsenal into a lock-box prior to entering the jail, and a veteran officer sees the blade, turns to his rookie partner and says, "A lot of officers carry those kinds of knives because you can grab a suspect with the same hand you're holding the knife in."
After shooting coffee out my nose, I quietly took the veteran aside and kind of hinted that he might not ought to pull the rookies leg like that.
I will spam thee not, the next day he comes into the office and shows me a Cold Steel catalog with an article in it saying that officers could grab a suspect while holding a push knife between the fingers.
I about spit. Are they nuts?!
Folks, a sharp instrument has no place in a handcuffing officers hands during the handcuffing phase of an arrest - no more than a pistol belongs in the same officers hands.
Some peoples kids, I swear.
LawDog
Whoa. If there have been double and triple tap responses, the last one was a Bill drill!!
I'm still trying to figure out just what doofus had his knife out for anyway.
I can't think of any scenario where you would draw a knife to arrest someone.
I also can't think of any scenario where you would have to cut someone's clothing to apply restraints.
I won't even try to guess--but it sounds like some of the same "big-city" policing techniques that I saw while growing up in the City of Chicago. And I do mean "in".
I'm still trying to figure out just what doofus had his knife out for anyway.
I can't think of any scenario where you would draw a knife to arrest someone.
I also can't think of any scenario where you would have to cut someone's clothing to apply restraints.
I won't even try to guess--but it sounds like some of the same "big-city" policing techniques that I saw while growing up in the City of Chicago. And I do mean "in".
Also, kinda by definition, if you're handcuffing him, he's not handcuffed yet. Do I really want to put a bladed weapon down by his hands?
I mean, forget the possibility of him getting cut. I'm worried about ME getting cut.
Like I said before...absent some bizarre circumstances, this one ain't gonna fly.
Mike
I mean, forget the possibility of him getting cut. I'm worried about ME getting cut.
Like I said before...absent some bizarre circumstances, this one ain't gonna fly.
Mike
Disclaimer: I have never handcuffed a single person.
What I don't understand is this, you believe this person is armed, you have both of your hands engaged in the struggle, and you are going to LET GO with one hand to get a knife? Lacking verisimilitude me thinks.
The story did say there were other officers there. It will be intereting to hear what they say about the officer ID and the "struggle".
What I don't understand is this, you believe this person is armed, you have both of your hands engaged in the struggle, and you are going to LET GO with one hand to get a knife? Lacking verisimilitude me thinks.
The story did say there were other officers there. It will be intereting to hear what they say about the officer ID and the "struggle".
From another board
http://www.huntchat.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25227
From another board
Always good to hear both sides, right?
Well, funny as it may be, I also know the cop that was ON THIS CALL. Here is his take on it, word for word:
"I was working along side Officer Anthony Johnson (AJ) on the night of this now infamous "finger" incident. Here is what TV and the papers do not tell you:
AJ had the woman's right hand cuffed. She was prone on the ground but refused to give Johnson her left hand. She retracted her left hand into her long coat sleeve and placed her arm underneath her body. She ignored several orders to surrender her left hand for handcuffing.
Johnson grabbed the end of the coat sleeve and used it to pull her arm from underneath her. He then made a decision to cut off the end of the sleeve, hoping to speed up the cuffing process. In doing so, he cut her fingers accidentally. The portion of her ring finger that was severed was about ¼ inch in length (It was the pad of her fingertip, about half way down the nail). From what I could tell, the bone in her finger was not cut. The laceration on her middle finger was slight.
It was an accident, and yes, it was a mistake. There were better options to get this woman cuffed. Although it takes several minutes to tell the story, the entire incident was over in seconds. As soon as we realized what happened, I uncuffed her and applied a pressure bandage. I recovered the piece of flesh and placed it in a plastic bag, later turning it over to the responding EMS.
No one feels worse about this than AJ. We made no effort to hide the truth in our reports (a common strategy for officers who face irrational and political witch-hunts from an Internal Affairs Bureau that cares no more for the truth than do criminals).
The woman was intoxicated (.15 BAC) and will be charged with OUIL. As with most incidents where citizens end up injured through police action, this debacle started when a hostile drunk refused to submit to lawful arrest.
AJ admitted to what he did and is very sorry. This was an unfortunate accident that has been exaggerated to a ridiculous degree. Anthony Johnson is a treasure to the Detroit Police Department. He is probably the best cop I have ever seen. He is well respected and highly talented. He is a natural leader, a devoutly religious man, and is known for his high degree of character. AJ works at Detroit’s harsh 9th Precinct and leads the Special Ops squad, which is tasked with proactive operations against street robberies and B&Es.
As far as this past incident where AJ was forced to shoot to death a “decrepit, feeble, old lady,†this is another example where the media presents only one side of the story. This woman, although elderly, somehow was quite mobile when she lunged at another officer with a knife. It was a crowded house with many people fighting and screaming. The uniformed officer in her sights was in no position to retreat, and he credits AJ for saving his life.
The shooting incident WAS investigated fully. AJ was cleared, and not because of lack of evidence or a police conspiracy! He was cleared because he did nothing wrong. The family was paid a $350K settlement. It is the policy of the City of Detroit to pass out money to avoid litigation. AJ has a sterling discipline record. He is not known for excessive force as the media has implied. Given that AJ has worked nearly ten years on Detroit’s worst streets—and has done high-felony police work with extreme effectiveness, his lack of disciplinary history is a testament to his professionalism and integrity.
What people see on television and in the papers is so far removed from reality, it is hard to believe that anyone calls it news. I call it “info-tainment,†and it is designed not to inform, but to simply sell advertising. Nor can we believe criminals who refuse to stand accountable and admit that they may have contributed to their own misfortune."
http://www.huntchat.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25227
From another board
Always good to hear both sides, right?
Well, funny as it may be, I also know the cop that was ON THIS CALL. Here is his take on it, word for word:
"I was working along side Officer Anthony Johnson (AJ) on the night of this now infamous "finger" incident. Here is what TV and the papers do not tell you:
AJ had the woman's right hand cuffed. She was prone on the ground but refused to give Johnson her left hand. She retracted her left hand into her long coat sleeve and placed her arm underneath her body. She ignored several orders to surrender her left hand for handcuffing.
Johnson grabbed the end of the coat sleeve and used it to pull her arm from underneath her. He then made a decision to cut off the end of the sleeve, hoping to speed up the cuffing process. In doing so, he cut her fingers accidentally. The portion of her ring finger that was severed was about ¼ inch in length (It was the pad of her fingertip, about half way down the nail). From what I could tell, the bone in her finger was not cut. The laceration on her middle finger was slight.
It was an accident, and yes, it was a mistake. There were better options to get this woman cuffed. Although it takes several minutes to tell the story, the entire incident was over in seconds. As soon as we realized what happened, I uncuffed her and applied a pressure bandage. I recovered the piece of flesh and placed it in a plastic bag, later turning it over to the responding EMS.
No one feels worse about this than AJ. We made no effort to hide the truth in our reports (a common strategy for officers who face irrational and political witch-hunts from an Internal Affairs Bureau that cares no more for the truth than do criminals).
The woman was intoxicated (.15 BAC) and will be charged with OUIL. As with most incidents where citizens end up injured through police action, this debacle started when a hostile drunk refused to submit to lawful arrest.
AJ admitted to what he did and is very sorry. This was an unfortunate accident that has been exaggerated to a ridiculous degree. Anthony Johnson is a treasure to the Detroit Police Department. He is probably the best cop I have ever seen. He is well respected and highly talented. He is a natural leader, a devoutly religious man, and is known for his high degree of character. AJ works at Detroit’s harsh 9th Precinct and leads the Special Ops squad, which is tasked with proactive operations against street robberies and B&Es.
As far as this past incident where AJ was forced to shoot to death a “decrepit, feeble, old lady,†this is another example where the media presents only one side of the story. This woman, although elderly, somehow was quite mobile when she lunged at another officer with a knife. It was a crowded house with many people fighting and screaming. The uniformed officer in her sights was in no position to retreat, and he credits AJ for saving his life.
The shooting incident WAS investigated fully. AJ was cleared, and not because of lack of evidence or a police conspiracy! He was cleared because he did nothing wrong. The family was paid a $350K settlement. It is the policy of the City of Detroit to pass out money to avoid litigation. AJ has a sterling discipline record. He is not known for excessive force as the media has implied. Given that AJ has worked nearly ten years on Detroit’s worst streets—and has done high-felony police work with extreme effectiveness, his lack of disciplinary history is a testament to his professionalism and integrity.
What people see on television and in the papers is so far removed from reality, it is hard to believe that anyone calls it news. I call it “info-tainment,†and it is designed not to inform, but to simply sell advertising. Nor can we believe criminals who refuse to stand accountable and admit that they may have contributed to their own misfortune."
Well, that makes it all ok then. I mean, she was drunk, so it's her fault that she got her finger cut off. The guy is obviously a hero for shooting the old woman. "She's coming right for us!"
Clearly, Tony Johnson is not only blameless in both episodes, but should be decorated for service above and beyond the call of duty. The city would be well advised to consider promoting him to Chief of Police, if not Commissioner. I hope that you cop-bashers feel properly chastened now that the truth about this hero has finally been revealed.
They weren't in a marked squad car. With a spotlight in her eyes the woman said all she could see was an outline of someone coming at her. The article didn't say if they were in uniform or not.
If I was standing around and a regular car pulled up, shined a bright light in my face and then was advanced upon menacingly, I would be fighting back too.
Greg
Also from the first page of the thread:
Plain clothes, unmarked car, I would be thinking carjack too.
Greg
Plain clothes, unmarked car, I would be thinking carjack too.
Greg
Plainclothes, unmarked car, Detroit... Yup.
Did you know that in Georgia it is a law that any vehicle doing traffic enforcement must have the name of the operating agency clearly marked in letters of a contrasting color no less than six inches high along both sides and the decklid? Makes plenty of sense to me.
Have any of you considered the legitimate needs of law enforcement in your blind opposition to authority? All perps are routinely fingerprinted. This perp refused to submit to the officer's lawful authority. He was simply making sure it would be possible to fingerprint her despite her criminal resistance to his commands.
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