Old Model Blackhawk frame size question

[high country]

I have a strong hankerin' for an old model Blackhawk in .357. Before I go bidding on anything, I wanted to confirm something about frame sizes.

My understanding is that all old model (3 screw) .357s are built on the smaller cylinder frame, of a similar size to the SAA. The change from the flat top to the ears in the .357 was just that modification to the top strap and a change to the grip frame (XR3 to XR3-RED). The larger frame was used for the .44 and .45 cartridges.

That all changed with the changeover to the new model, but I am specifically interested in the old model.

I know we have some Blackhawk experts here, would someone mind confirming that or setting me straight if I am wrong on that? It would be greatly appreciated.

 

[RKRCPA]

You are correct, all old model 357's are on the small frame.

 

[CraigC]

Your post is 100% correct. For me, I have a strong preference for the XR3 grip frame so that gets swapped onto all my Old Models. Which is still cheaper than buying a flat-top.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Three Centerfire Three Screws. The one on the left is a Flat Top 44 Magnum. The other two are 357 Magnums with a Flat Top on the right.

The larger cylinder of the 44 Mag should be obvious in this photo. The frame is larger to accommodate the larger cylinder.

 

[bannockburn]

Love my 3 screw Blackhawk! With the 4 5/8" barrel it balances perfectly in my hand!

 

[high country]

Thanks all for confirming that. I was 95%, but there is so much garbage on the interwebs I thought I would double check with a source I trust.

Thanks also for the great pictures!

The hunt is on for a decent shooter grade example that I can tune up and use for field carry. Even better would be a basket case one that I could bring back to life. I know things are a bit nuts at the moment, and it can range a lot, but what is a reasonable value for a decent example (doesn't need to be super nice, it'll get used)? I feel like if I could put my hands on a mechanically solid one with moderate finish wear one around five bills I would be content, not sure if that is high or low.

 

[greyling22]

Man I wish you were local. I happen to have a three screw 357 I need t sell. Tagging because I want to know a value range as well.

And as you know, an unconverted 3 screw will be worth more than a converted one.

 

[Rich1939]

Just for imterest, I have a 3 screw (1968) model (unmodified ) with a REDesigned frame which seems to be atypical as I have yet to purchase grips for it that fit correctly. The gripes are all a bit large and need to be reduced at the front and shortened a tad. I'm guessing the fgrip frame ion this is smaller than if it were to spec.

 

[CraigC]

Thanks all for confirming that. I was 95%, but there is so much garbage on the interwebs I thought I would double check with a source I trust.

Lord, you got that right!

The hunt is on for a decent shooter grade example that I can tune up and use for field carry. Even better would be a basket case one that I could bring back to life. I know things are a bit nuts at the moment, and it can range a lot, but what is a reasonable value for a decent example (doesn't need to be super nice, it'll get used)? I feel like if I could put my hands on a mechanically solid one with moderate finish wear one around five bills I would be content, not sure if that is high or low.

There's a lot of variation because some guns are more collectible than others. The 4 5/8" guns tend to be higher than the more common 6 1/2" guns. A real nice flat-top is going to be at least $600 and up. For example, I paid $750 for this 1958 model in near-new condition. I added the grips and color case hammer.



The top gun in this picture is a 1961 model that cost me $550 3yrs ago. It's probably a 95% gun.

The middle gun is something of an anomaly with regards to pricing. It is from the Jeff Quinn collection and it went to nearly $800, bidding against a known Ruger collector. The frame has been refinished, the grip frame is nickel plated and it wears custom mesquite grips.

The bottom gun is a more common "eared" Old Model from 1970. It was $300 but that was 16yrs ago.

 

[high country]

And as you know, an unconverted 3 screw will be worth more than a converted one.

Agreed, a conversion would be a deal breaker unless all of the original parts were included.

There's a lot of variation because some guns are more collectible than others. The 4 5/8" guns tend to be higher than the more common 6 1/2" guns. A real nice flat-top is going to be at least $600 and up. For example, I paid $750 for this 1958 model in near-new condition. I added the grips and color case hammer.

View attachment 999035

The top gun in this picture is a 1961 model that cost me $550 3yrs ago. It's probably a 95% gun.

The middle gun is something of an anomaly with regards to pricing. It is from the Jeff Quinn collection and it went to nearly $800, bidding against a known Ruger collector. The frame has been refinished, the grip frame is nickel plated and it wears custom mesquite grips.

The bottom gun is a more common "eared" Old Model from 1970. It was $300 but that was 16yrs ago.

View attachment 999036

CraigC, thanks for the summary there, that is a nice collection you have. I am guessing that the days of $300 old models may be behind us unless a person is luckier than I tend to be. But, that suggests that my initial guess isn't too far off that with a little legwork and waiting it should be possible to find a decent example for around $500 especially if I can live with a 6.5" barrel. I am not necessarily against that, although the shorter barrel looks a little more proportional and it seems like a 6.5" barrel would be a bit muzzle heavy without a .45" hole through there. As long as I start with something a little beat up without much collector value, the barrel length can be changed if push comes to shove.

 

[CraigC]

Afraid so. The $300 guns are now $400 and $500 guns. Even when they shouldn't be. A lot of guys in gun shops know just enough to get in trouble. So many eared Old Models are thought to be collectible "flat-tops". For me, even for the base gun for a custom, it's sometimes better to pay a little more for a flat-top. Because it's $100-$150 to get a nice XR3 grip frame. Which is the reason I bought at least two of those four guns.

 

[Slamfire]

The frame size may be similar, but the Blackhawk has a thicker top strap, and probably some other areas were beefed up compared to the Colt SAA.

 

[1KPerDay]

To be clear; are most 3 screw flat top .357s XR3 grip frame and the “eared” 3 screws XR3-RED? Is the XR3 smaller? I just handled a new model .357 and the grip felt blocky and huge to me. What grip frame does the new model have?

 

[CraigC]

To be clear; are most 3 screw flat top .357s XR3 grip frame and the “eared” 3 screws XR3-RED? Is the XR3 smaller? I just handled a new model .357 and the grip felt blocky and huge to me. What grip frame does the new model have?

Correct, not most but all.The transition to the ears, XR3-RED and aluminum ejector housing was made at the same time in 1963. I don't like to characterize the XR3 as "smaller". The XR3-RED has more room behind the triggerguard. The grip was essentially stretched backward, before curving down. All the New Model Blackhawks, Vaqueros and short barreled Supers have the XR3-RED pattern. Only the New Model flat-tops and the New Vaquero have the steel version of the XR3, which wasn't introduced until 2005.

 

[murf]

Ruger SA Grip Frames - 1953 to Present (gunblast.com)

murf

p.s. rip jeff quinn