Now that a number of years have passed since steel shot was introduced, is there compelling evidence that it is indeed dangerous and/or damaging to use in older guns? Somewhere down the line, I seem to remember reading about some regular shotgunners that were saying it was not at all harmful. My 12 GA is a Winchester Model 12 modified that I haven't used for other than HD in many years.
Old Shotgun and Steel Shot
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A few things:
Steel shells are much better than they used to be, so the wads protect the barrels better.
Steel is much more sensitive to choke constriction than lead, and old guns made for vegetable wads tend to be choked really tight. So, if an old gun has a fixed Full choke, it's probably not safe, and definitely won't pattern as desired, with steel. That's probably true of Modified, also.
Most steel shotshells are 3". Not all are, but you really have to look for 2 3/4" shells.
Finally, there are modern non-toxic shells you can get that choke like lead and are perfectly safe with even 100-year-old SxS guns -- but those shells are not cheap.
That's a start.
Steel shells are much better than they used to be, so the wads protect the barrels better.
Steel is much more sensitive to choke constriction than lead, and old guns made for vegetable wads tend to be choked really tight. So, if an old gun has a fixed Full choke, it's probably not safe, and definitely won't pattern as desired, with steel. That's probably true of Modified, also.
Most steel shotshells are 3". Not all are, but you really have to look for 2 3/4" shells.
Finally, there are modern non-toxic shells you can get that choke like lead and are perfectly safe with even 100-year-old SxS guns -- but those shells are not cheap.
That's a start.
On a classic gun like that I would not risk damage. I would either use a more modern gun with steel shot or try the non steel waterfowl loads. Chances are a few rounds may not cause any damage with a modified choke. But if it were a gun I cared about I wouldn't do it.
Not here, 2 3/4" are everywhere. Of course, we have a lot more waterfowling around here than many places up country. I shoot 'em, they're cheap, about 8.50 a box for 1550 fps 2 3/4" Xpert. That fast steel stuff is great, too, but I will NOT feed 'em to one of my older guns. I retired a couple of guns when steel was mandated, traded for an old Mossberg and bought a new accuchoke barrel for it. I later sold that and bought a new Mossberg. The problem is bulging at the choke. I've never seen this damage, just read about it, but I'm not going to find out with MY guns. I also hunt doves and if I wanna shoot 'em, I can shoot doves with lead shot like the old days.
I've read that a doubles barrels can actually split from the bulging at the chokes. Like I say, I never wanted to witness this on my own guns.
Steel shot laws came along in 1980. If the gun is a mid 80s gun, it's fine. If it's 70s or older, get a new barrel for it or a new gun.
I think steel shot was mandated in 1989 and anything made since then should be fine. Most anything with interchangeable chokes should be OK as long as chokes labeled for steel shot are used. Even a lot of older guns work fine, but if in doubt I would get a gunsmith's opinion before firing steel shot in something of any value.
The problem is that many of the older guns have very thin barrels near the muzzle. They may split right at the end of the barrel, especially if they have a tight choke.
MCgunner and I were typing at same time.
I don't think steel shot was mandated nationwide until 1989, it was the law in many other places prior to that. But I'm working from memory and could have my years mixed up.
The problem is that many of the older guns have very thin barrels near the muzzle. They may split right at the end of the barrel, especially if they have a tight choke.
MCgunner and I were typing at same time.
I don't think steel shot was mandated nationwide until 1989, it was the law in many other places prior to that. But I'm working from memory and could have my years mixed up.
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This is all true but I don't know about you guys but I dont want to spend $30+ on a box of "non-toxic" shot. even if it does pattern like lead. Ive used 2 3/4" Winchester expert steel in my 1st gen Winchester 1400. Now thats not as old a gun as yours but I would still think it would be fine. Plus I would rather buy $8.99 a box steel than $35 a box bismuth. If you ask me the "non-toxic" shot laws are stupid anyway.
Yah on second thought i'd listen to MCgunner. He knows his stuff and has helped me out on some of my threads. In that case id get a newer gun and stick with steel. Its an excuse to get a new gun and steel will still kill ducks and costs less.
Ive heard bismuth is fine because it is soft like lead. The drawback is its like $39.99 a box of 25. No duck is worth that.
There is, Punisher. My first, shot with Dad's vintage Ithaca.That's the one duck I want, and it would be sooo worth it.
Thanks, y'all. My Model 12 was made in 1952 IIRC and it's probably 95%, so guess I'll just keep it by the bedside.
Well reckless for that nostalgia i guess bismuth is in order. You can get it at any cabelas or bass pro shop for $30-40 a box, and ive read its fine for the oldies. I may get a box for my grandpas A5 now.
Would you run bismuth in the A5? How old is she? "Ethel" is a 1960 M37 12ga. Too bad I live so far away, we could take the old gals out.(Ships, cars and guns are all called she)
Nah, that's 30 bucks for a box of 10 most places. Kent offers tungsten matrix suitable for older guns at around 4-5 dollars a shot, no bargin there either. I pay less than 9 bucks for 2 3/4" Winchester Hi Speed Xpert and that's a box of 25. Don't take long at that rate to buy a new gun if you're doing more than one duck hunt. Me, I hunt 'em all season long. On a good hunt, i'll average around 15 rounds plus or minus for a 6 bird limit. I'll hunt dozen and a half days a season for ducks and geese on an average year. You do the math.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=10480_14626_14517_17100
WOW I thought they were 25rd box. Holy crap looks like the A5 will stick to meat shoots. As for her age im not really sure If I had to guess Id have to say mid to late 50's. It has a fixed Mod barrel. It was my grandpas main hunting gun. He hunted everything with it. Too bad I never got to go with him. I got into hunting after he passed away.
I have two old Winchester Model 12s. One in 12GA IC and the other a 20GA Full choke. I haven't fired either weapon since lead shot went the way of the dodo bird. It's a shame too, they belonged to my grandfather and my father. They've seen their share of birds and rabbit over the years.
The Bismuth shot is too expensive to shoot on a regular basis but I have an old SXS that my dad liberated from a German village in 1945 just before the war ended. Cost him $1.50 to mail it home. I make it a point to take it out once each duck season. It is worth the cost to duck hunt with my dads old gun once in a while.
I have seen a lot of old gun barrels bulged in the choke area by steel shot. I just plain don't like it, so I shoot one of the tungsten alloys and damn the cost. I love Kent Impact when I can find it anymore. It probably isn't twice as effective as steel, but I know it is a lot more effective, especially at range. I didn't like Bismuth too much either when I tried that.
ON STEEL thru an A-5 , as I have posted before. The steel law came in, I read about bulging or spilting barrels and a begged my dad to not shoot steel out of his 1957 A-5 with a 30 inch full choke barrel. Well , hard headed dad did not listen. He shot severl boxes of 2 3/4" #4 steel and it DID NOT HURT the barrel. I think he was lucky and the A-5 was just made of tuff metal IMO.
My .02 cents. Don't shoot steel out of an old shotgun made before the steel law. Get a new gun or atleast a new barrel!!!!!!!!
My .02 cents. Don't shoot steel out of an old shotgun made before the steel law. Get a new gun or atleast a new barrel!!!!!!!!
Yeah, no doubt, the fancy stuff made for old guns is good for "I want to take grandpa's gun out for a duck hunt in his memory, and I don't want to F it up", not "I want to go duck hunting three times a week for the season".
It depends on what you want.
AFAIK you can get a modern barrel for a Model 12, too. At the price of those high-tech non-tox rounds, it ought to pay for itself in the first five minutes, too.
It depends on what you want.
AFAIK you can get a modern barrel for a Model 12, too. At the price of those high-tech non-tox rounds, it ought to pay for itself in the first five minutes, too.
chas08
Member
I beg to differ. The warm and fuzzy feeling I get when I shoot a limit of Ducks with Grandpa's Model 12 16ga is worth way more than $60. I had a reputable gunsmith tell me that it would'nt hurt to shoot steel in mine with its modified choke. The improvements in shotcups gives steel more compressability than the shells of 20 years ago. But I've been reluctant to try it. I've been using Kent Impact #5 tungsten matrix for my nostalgia hunts. A hundred round case cost $300 at Macks PW two years ago. As for brands that are safe for older guns there is;
Kent Impact, Bismuth, & Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles all run between $30-$40 abox of ten rounds. Best wishes.....chas
That's some mighty expensive duck meat, there. LOL I don't have anything I really have that much emotion tied up in, myself. I'd like to use the old SxS now and then, but simply aint worth the cost of the ammo. And, hell, I like my Mossberg. I'm really out there to hunt, not to reminisce. BUT, the choice is there if it's worth it to ya.
I'm really out there to hunt, not to reminisce. BUT, the choice is there if it's worth it to ya. I have a 1946 Winchester model 12 that was my grandfather's and it is not worth the risk to me to shoot steel shot through it. I bought a Mossberg for waterfowl hunting. That old model 12 just means too much to me to take a chance of ruining it with steel. Still shoot some lead through it occasionally.
chas08
Member
Aww heck, MC, it's only money. It ain't no good if you don't spend it and it makes lousy toilet paper (LOL) I only take it on one or two hunts a year. I know folks who's Scotch bill is more than that a month (I'm not one of them) I enjoy my nostalgia hunts. No camo clothes allowed and no outsiders. Just me, Dad and Grandpa. May they rest in peace.
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