Suggestion to the moderators... how about a sticky on use taxes? We've got bunches of folks here willingly admitting that they are tax cheats because they don't know or understand the law...
Online "discount" gun dealers
- Thread starter TenRingGuns.com
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Suggestion to the moderators... how about a sticky on use taxes? We've got bunches of folks here willingly admitting that they are tax cheats because they don't know or understand the law...
ok i will pay up for all my ebay and amazon purchase as soon as the police show up at my door. but i will request them bust the meth lab down the road first. who care look at how many people dont pay taxes every year just becauswe there rich enough to hire a accountant to get around it. personaly i think i pay enough taxes every year.
FourTeeFive
Member
To TenRingGuns:
You said:
Since I live near you I went to your website and found this:
So what service are you providing that is any different than me buying online and having it shipped to an FFL for transfer?
You said:
Since I live near you I went to your website and found this:
So what service are you providing that is any different than me buying online and having it shipped to an FFL for transfer?
Black Butte
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- 888
I doubt big government is concerned about what you "think." As it wastes more money, it will be looking to us to make up the difference. Somebody please tell me why the US has to pay every oil-rich country in the Middle East a billion dollars annually in "aid."
From my perspective, the problem is that the traditional retail sales model is failing. We live in an era when you can get better selection, better price, and (often via customer reviews at places like Amazon) better purchase guidance from online retailers than from a local store. Not only can they buy in bulk and leverage their purchasing power into lower costs of goods, but taxation authorities haven't caught up with the Internet yet so most people get an additional immediate 6-10% discount because sales taxes aren't being collected by online retailers.
Local book stores are dead and dying, unless they can develop a local following that transcends the traditional general interest bookstore (being the local comics/gaming shop works; being the local gay/lesbian hangout would probably work too.) You just can't compete unless you offer services that can't be purchased online at a cheaper cost, because there are tons of people who are happy to fondle your inventory, make up their mind, then go to Bud's and buy from the local guy with the cheapest transfer services. That's just how it is.
I make a habit of buying something every time I go into the local gunstore. I won't waste money on poorly priced items ($36 for 20 rounds of 9mm Golden Sabres? Not on your life), but I'll buy other essentials there (targets, reasonably priced ammo, gunsmithing services). I also tend to look there first to see if they have something in inventory that's similar to what I'm looking for, and they will sell new firearms that they order directly for ~ 5% markup which I think is fair. Unfortunately for them, I tend to go used.
It's really a business question rather than a gun question. "What can Best Buy do that would make customers spend money there rather than Amazon or NewEgg?" is the late 20th century/early 21st century problem. Figure that out for your niche and you'll do fine. Fail, or ignore it, and you'll find yourself hanging on by your fingernails and after 10 years you'll realize you'd been better off working for minimum wage instead.
Capitalism can be a *****.
TITAN308
Member
As someone already pointed out and businesses continue to fall into the same pit trap every single time.
In this day and age it would do you well to hop onto the online/digital market. If they can do it - you can do it. I don't think anyone minds paying a few bucks extra as long as the store has CS orientated staff (haha I know right?) and are just nice to be around in general.
Hey who remembers beepers? How about home telephones?
Yea, learn from history - everything changes.... everything. Keep up and adapt or fall to the way side.
In this day and age it would do you well to hop onto the online/digital market. If they can do it - you can do it. I don't think anyone minds paying a few bucks extra as long as the store has CS orientated staff (haha I know right?) and are just nice to be around in general.
Hey who remembers beepers? How about home telephones?
Yea, learn from history - everything changes.... everything. Keep up and adapt or fall to the way side.
mortablunt
Member
A lot of gun stores overcharge. You pay in other ways by buying online. Shipping charges, transfer fees, credit card interest, and waiting.
Some definitions of my own:
FFL holder - a person who is named on a Federal Firearms License, allowing them to engage in the business of selling firearms. Kitchen-table, gun show, major national retailer - all gotta have it. Requires compliance with federal, state and local rules and regulations.
Transfer dealer - FFL holder who charges a fee to receive a firearm from another FFL holder or private party, process the transfer paperwork in accordance with the law, and release said firearm to the buyer after the appropriate check and waiting period.
Kitchen-table dealer - FFL holder who sells guns to friends and family as a sideline, has income from other sources. Usually has little or no new inventory on hand. ATF has really discouraged such in recent years. May also do transfers.
Storefront dealer - has a place of business separate from their living quarters, with regular hours and open to the public during those hours (although access may be controlled).
Stocking dealer - has inventory on-hand for examination and immediate sale.
Some folks delude themselves - a person who holds a FFL but has a job elsewhere, doesn't stock firearms, doesn't have a storefront, and is a part-time "dealer" shouldn't expect to charge the same prices as a person who invests in a storefront, inventory you can walk in and examine, employees and works there full-time (or hires a manager to do so).
Of course, delusions are not confined to kitchen-table FFL holders (I've been there, done that - twice!). Shops that don't stock guns but expect to charge MSRP up-front to special-order the gun you want are delusional. They are providing transfer dealer services in that instance, not stocking dealer services.
On the sales tax issue - California has finally realized how simple it is to collect sales tax on Bud's sales. The transfer dealer is now required to do so, and you have to have a transfer dealer. Those that don't will lose their CA resale permit, which will get their FFL pulled.
FFL holder - a person who is named on a Federal Firearms License, allowing them to engage in the business of selling firearms. Kitchen-table, gun show, major national retailer - all gotta have it. Requires compliance with federal, state and local rules and regulations.
Transfer dealer - FFL holder who charges a fee to receive a firearm from another FFL holder or private party, process the transfer paperwork in accordance with the law, and release said firearm to the buyer after the appropriate check and waiting period.
Kitchen-table dealer - FFL holder who sells guns to friends and family as a sideline, has income from other sources. Usually has little or no new inventory on hand. ATF has really discouraged such in recent years. May also do transfers.
Storefront dealer - has a place of business separate from their living quarters, with regular hours and open to the public during those hours (although access may be controlled).
Stocking dealer - has inventory on-hand for examination and immediate sale.
Some folks delude themselves - a person who holds a FFL but has a job elsewhere, doesn't stock firearms, doesn't have a storefront, and is a part-time "dealer" shouldn't expect to charge the same prices as a person who invests in a storefront, inventory you can walk in and examine, employees and works there full-time (or hires a manager to do so).
Of course, delusions are not confined to kitchen-table FFL holders (I've been there, done that - twice!). Shops that don't stock guns but expect to charge MSRP up-front to special-order the gun you want are delusional. They are providing transfer dealer services in that instance, not stocking dealer services.
On the sales tax issue - California has finally realized how simple it is to collect sales tax on Bud's sales. The transfer dealer is now required to do so, and you have to have a transfer dealer. Those that don't will lose their CA resale permit, which will get their FFL pulled.
TITAN308
Member
What I find sad is that my local Academy Sports retail store generally has a huge selection (in comparison) of both pistols and rifles over an actual "Gun Store". I still deal a lot with one of the local stores because he is a super nice guy and isn't a snob when I want to ask how to fix something or if he can locate something for me.
A lot of gun stores have the "lol noob" attitude when you are trying to educate yourself.
Edit: I think a majority of us have noticed that with the rise of weapon (and weapon related) sales we have discovered the local gun store industry was ill prepared for such a surge in new customers. This is apparent by their lack of social skills with newbies and customer service know-how in general.
A lot of gun stores have the "lol noob" attitude when you are trying to educate yourself.
Edit: I think a majority of us have noticed that with the rise of weapon (and weapon related) sales we have discovered the local gun store industry was ill prepared for such a surge in new customers. This is apparent by their lack of social skills with newbies and customer service know-how in general.
Last edited:
lobo9er
Member
Id say raising your prices for transfers is a bad idea, but your time and business. As soon as my LGS raised theirs I found a part timer that has a FFL to do transfers for me at the price I was paying. Nothing personal, but just like they are trying to make more money, I am trying to save more money. I still buy from them but they loose on my transfers. And they also loose on the box of ammo or whatever I would buy when I pick up the piece.
It never ceases to amaze me how businesses will spend dollars trying to attract NEW customers while trying to get an extra nickel out of their existing ones.
Back when I started in commission sales, an experienced salesman told me "You take care of your customers, and they'll take care of you." No truer words were ever spoken in that arena - give outstanding service and you get repeat business + all their friends.
Breakmyfootoff
Member
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- Jan 18, 2011
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- 107
When I'm going to buy something, I do call the local dealers. If they have it in stock, and the total price difference is within 50.00 of what it would cost me to get it online then I buy it locally. That being said, I dont waste their time if I'm not serious about buying from them. Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, I wont go ask them a lot of questions about a gun or ask to fondle it if I have no intentions of rewarding their customer service with a sale. If I'm going to buy a gun online, I research the gun online. Guns are one of the few things I dont mind buying without holding first. Even if I decide I dont like the way the gun feels, guns arent hard to sell with minimal loss of investment.
wojownik
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- 2,086
Well, hold on there ... there are at least 6 or 7 states that do not sales any sales tax or use tax.
Several states that do charge use tax limit that to cases where the on-line retailer maintains some form of presence in the respective state (whether warehousing, distribution, fulfillment, etc). Virginia, for example, just yesterday passed a bill (pending governors signature) along those lines.
Calling out people for being "tax cheats" is not correct in all cases, and is not high road as a blanket accusation.
To the residents of those states, I apologize... for the rest, I stand my ground.
If the company has a presence in your state, it's sales tax, just like you'd pay in bricks and mortar stores, it doesn't matter that it's being mailed to you.
TenRingGuns.com
Member
BREAKING NEWS*****
Cheaper Than Dirt, Buds Guns, and all the others will be in for a BIG surprise in a few days and will now be REQUIRED to raise their gun prices.
Honestly, I don't why this racket went on as long as it did. At least it's over and me and every other FFL will now be able to compete.
Cheaper Than Dirt, Buds Guns, and all the others will be in for a BIG surprise in a few days and will now be REQUIRED to raise their gun prices.
Honestly, I don't why this racket went on as long as it did. At least it's over and me and every other FFL will now be able to compete.
What are you talking about?
Bojangles7
Member
I've only bought one firearm online and will probably buy more online in the future. Sometimes the LGS just doesn't have what I want. Others, I won't do business with. For instance, we have a LGS with a nice range that I usually visit for shooting rilfes. The owner refuses to sell any AK pattern rifles because of some personal bias. When I asked what they would charge to transfer one, they said $100. 
I will never buy anthing from them except time on their range now. It's a shame too because they usually have quite a large selection, something the only other LGS does not.
I will never buy anthing from them except time on their range now. It's a shame too because they usually have quite a large selection, something the only other LGS does not.TITAN308
Member
How can you force an organization in a free country to charge more. The manufacturer sets the price when selling to them. So short of all the manufacturers bumping their price tag to businesses, I'd like to see how that would ever happen.
I've been pretty neutral so far, but this one statement makes you sound like a snotty brat. You are not entitled to anything. In this country a product is only worth what a customer is willing to pay. Get with the times or get run over by the times.
Man up. Your grand pappy's store isn't going to survive if you are still stuck on grand pappy's business plan.
My wallet tells you what to do, not the other way around. If you don't like what my wallet has to say - that is fine and your free choice to ignore Mr. Wallet - but my wallet will go talk to someone else.
I've been pretty neutral so far, but this one statement makes you sound like a snotty brat. You are not entitled to anything. In this country a product is only worth what a customer is willing to pay. Get with the times or get run over by the times.
Man up. Your grand pappy's store isn't going to survive if you are still stuck on grand pappy's business plan.
My wallet tells you what to do, not the other way around. If you don't like what my wallet has to say - that is fine and your free choice to ignore Mr. Wallet - but my wallet will go talk to someone else.
chevyman097
Member
I have a strong feeling....tenringguns is not a fan of free market.
TITAN308
Member
Well if he won't answer here, maybe we should all call his store and ask what he meant?
Edit: Granted I did not compare all the listings, but on their website under "Smoking Deals" are guns priced at....well...just about the same price as everywhere else I looked.
Honestly I think the buyer now a days is more informed and purchase savy. Probably does not play well with businesses that are use to making a good profit off the ignorance of the consumer.
"Smoking Deal" heh
Edit: Granted I did not compare all the listings, but on their website under "Smoking Deals" are guns priced at....well...just about the same price as everywhere else I looked.
Honestly I think the buyer now a days is more informed and purchase savy. Probably does not play well with businesses that are use to making a good profit off the ignorance of the consumer.
"Smoking Deal" heh
I checked his website and found nothing at all that relates to what he posted about. Just a blog going back to November 2011 and stuff he has for sale. hmm
http://www.tenringguns.com/
http://www.tenringguns.com/
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