You ever notice that online gun ads such as gunbroker and gunsamerica always say the price displayed is a cash discount and you should add 3-6 percent for credit cards. Not to mention some of my local gun stores also charge a credit card fee. Why is this? I do notice that during this shortage several gun stores/dealers are being incredibly greedy but what is with the credit card fee no other buisness charges credit card fees.
Why are gun stores/dealers the only business to charge credit card fees
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coloradokevin
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Yes, I have noticed this, and I find it a bit agitating.
Many of the gun stores around here will upcharge you a few percentage points if you use a credit card. No other business that I'm aware of has such a practice. Someone once told me that this is blatantly against the terms of the agreement that a business signs with the credit card providers, but I have no way of knowing whether or not that rumor is true.
Still, I hate getting the sour looks when I pull out a debit card a gun store. Give me a break, it is the way society is these days... If I can use a debit card at Mcdonalds I ought to be able to use it at the local gun store (when they are setup to take cards)!
Many of the gun stores around here will upcharge you a few percentage points if you use a credit card. No other business that I'm aware of has such a practice. Someone once told me that this is blatantly against the terms of the agreement that a business signs with the credit card providers, but I have no way of knowing whether or not that rumor is true.
Still, I hate getting the sour looks when I pull out a debit card a gun store. Give me a break, it is the way society is these days... If I can use a debit card at Mcdonalds I ought to be able to use it at the local gun store (when they are setup to take cards)!
Hungry Seagull
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All Credit Card Transactions such as VISA etc are a percentage of the total purchase price.
Some businesses pass the cost onto the customer, baking it into thier sticker price.
Other businesses ignore it and write it off as part of taxes each year. An expense.
Some businesses dont allow credit cards because these fees eat em up.
Even more businesses will ask you to stack everything onto the counter and swipe that VISA or MASTERCARD One time so that the fee is paid once.
If you buy the stuff with a credit card on the net without taxes (Excepting NY state and some others) what do you care about a few percent in fees?
That is how VISA and similar electronic transaction processors make thier living. Collecting these small fees millions of times per day.
Some businesses pass the cost onto the customer, baking it into thier sticker price.
Other businesses ignore it and write it off as part of taxes each year. An expense.
Some businesses dont allow credit cards because these fees eat em up.
Even more businesses will ask you to stack everything onto the counter and swipe that VISA or MASTERCARD One time so that the fee is paid once.
If you buy the stuff with a credit card on the net without taxes (Excepting NY state and some others) what do you care about a few percent in fees?
That is how VISA and similar electronic transaction processors make thier living. Collecting these small fees millions of times per day.
SpecialKalltheway
Member
yeah the title of this thread should be "Why are gun stores/dealers the only buisness up front about charge credit card fees"
I prefer stores that will give you the option to save a lil by using cash instead of marking everything up to cover the cost they incur for the convenience of taking credit cards.
Hungry Seagull
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I never noticed.
Ive spent 3000 some dollars so far this year cold hard cash and a few hundred of that went to charges, taxes etc.
To be honest the numbers were not high enough to matter or be noticed.
Ive spent 3000 some dollars so far this year cold hard cash and a few hundred of that went to charges, taxes etc.
To be honest the numbers were not high enough to matter or be noticed.
General Geoff
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Because they apparently like to disregard their legal contract with the credit card companies. It is against the terms of said contract to charge extra for processing a credit card transaction as opposed to check or cash.
It is also against the terms of the contract to have a minimum charge for credit transactions (as many convenience stores and other small-ticket items stores do, such as a $10 minimum order). If you call VISA and report them, VISA can and will revoke their merchant account.
It is also against the terms of the contract to have a minimum charge for credit transactions (as many convenience stores and other small-ticket items stores do, such as a $10 minimum order). If you call VISA and report them, VISA can and will revoke their merchant account.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Was in a discussion with a club owner just a week ago. VISA, e.g., charges 3% of the transaction $$$. And, just to swipe a card is a $0.25 fee. A buddy of mine watched a liquor-store customer have five cards swiped through the reader before the sixth card had enough remaining credit for a bottle of whiskey. Profit?
I know one major gunshop which makes roughly 15% gross profit on firearms sales. The VISA fee is thus 20% of his profit, right off the top.
Many of the online sellers work on high-volume, low-margin. The VISA fee is thus too much of a hickey for them to not do a two-tier pricing structure.
I know one major gunshop which makes roughly 15% gross profit on firearms sales. The VISA fee is thus 20% of his profit, right off the top.
Many of the online sellers work on high-volume, low-margin. The VISA fee is thus too much of a hickey for them to not do a two-tier pricing structure.
spyder1911
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The Real Mags said:
I was told that some credit card companies charge an extra fee for firearm purchases.
It has to do with who owns the gun (i.e. you bought in on a credit card but haven't paid off the card yet) if a crime were to occur.
May be complete BS but that's what I herd
SpecialKalltheway
Member
I know plenty of gas stations around here in Colorado that will give you so much off per gallon if you pay with cash not credit. It is not common practice for all gun shops either though. I buy my guns with a credit card at one shop cause I like getting hte points for big purchases. At that shop you don't save by paying cash either, so I might as well get the reward points.
KarenTOC
Member
I've heard that credit card companies may not allow their merchants to offer a "cash discount" as part of their terms. If a store wants to give a cash discount, they have to do it backwards - by charging a credit fee instead. Stores have a choice: charge credit card customers an extra 3% or charge everybody the extra 3%. Obviously your gun store wants to charge the credit card fees to the credit card user only.
Few other stores do that. So maybe you should really be asking "why are gun stores the only stores to allow cash customers to pay less instead of charging everyone the credit card fee?"
Besides, it's not *ONLY* gun stores. My gas station charges a different price for cash vs credit. And I"m sure there are other stores that do the same. Probably just not places you shop
Few other stores do that. So maybe you should really be asking "why are gun stores the only stores to allow cash customers to pay less instead of charging everyone the credit card fee?"
Besides, it's not *ONLY* gun stores. My gas station charges a different price for cash vs credit. And I"m sure there are other stores that do the same. Probably just not places you shop
daniel1113
Member
Two things should be noted here.
First, while retailers are not allowed to charge customers extra for the use a credit card, there are no provisions against cash discounts. Ultimately, they accomplish the same thing, but they are different. This is why many gun shop owners offer a 5% discount to customers who pay using cash.
Second, like any cost, the retailers always pass the extra cost associated with using a credit card to customers. Of course most stores don't charge an explicit fee when a customer pays by credit card, but you better believe that cost has been passed to the customer through a similar increase in prices.
First, while retailers are not allowed to charge customers extra for the use a credit card, there are no provisions against cash discounts. Ultimately, they accomplish the same thing, but they are different. This is why many gun shop owners offer a 5% discount to customers who pay using cash.
Second, like any cost, the retailers always pass the extra cost associated with using a credit card to customers. Of course most stores don't charge an explicit fee when a customer pays by credit card, but you better believe that cost has been passed to the customer through a similar increase in prices.
ScareyH22A
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At least they give us an option of a cash discount! What the heck is wrong with that?!
Art's got it right. In normal times the profit margin on guns is barely enough to keep the doors open.
It affects other businesses too. I have a friend who owns and operates a full service gas station. A two man operation, just a mechanic and my friend. Often he has to sell gas at 3 or 4 cents a gallon profit to compete with the other station in the small town. When someone buys gas on a credit card he often makes less then a penny on the gallon after the fees.
It affects other businesses too. I have a friend who owns and operates a full service gas station. A two man operation, just a mechanic and my friend. Often he has to sell gas at 3 or 4 cents a gallon profit to compete with the other station in the small town. When someone buys gas on a credit card he often makes less then a penny on the gallon after the fees.
Hungry Seagull
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Hopefully that 8000 gallons of gasoline at 2.00 a gallon for the next two days makes him able to sell all of it when the price holds steady or rises.
If prices fall, he's gonna be stuck with what is left of the 8,000 gallons of gas he paid 2.00 for and forced to sell at 1.95 because everyone else is asking that price on that day.
Guns are issued a price a MSRP and some guns are more in demand and will rise in pricing as much as the market will bear.
If prices fall, he's gonna be stuck with what is left of the 8,000 gallons of gas he paid 2.00 for and forced to sell at 1.95 because everyone else is asking that price on that day.
Guns are issued a price a MSRP and some guns are more in demand and will rise in pricing as much as the market will bear.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I run into this with many Ham Radio places I do business with.
It's more common than you'd think.
It's more common than you'd think.
"All prices include a 2% cash/check discount"
I'm not charging 2% for credit card use... I'm discounting prices 2% for cash. I don't own a gun shop, but I do own a business. If you would rather pay by cash, you get the 2% discount. If my customer pays by credit card, I get charged extra so I'm passing on the extra cost to the customer.
I think thats fair...
I'm not charging 2% for credit card use... I'm discounting prices 2% for cash.
I don't own a gun shop, but I do own a business. If you would rather pay by cash, you get the 2% discount. If my customer pays by credit card, I get charged extra so I'm passing on the extra cost to the customer.I think thats fair...
johncantiusgarand
Member
The first time I encountered that, I didn't like having haggled the price down to what I was willing to pay, only to be told at the point of sale, "Oh, you're using a credit card? I have to charge you 3% more for doing that." BUT, my disappointment over that was unreasonable though. Gun stores are one of the few places where haggling over the price is still commonplace. Bargaining isn't completely fair to the seller if, after he's agreed to the lowest profit he can accept, the buyer opts to pay with something that will cost the seller a surcharge. It is much easier for the seller, who knows how much he has invested in the firearm, to calculate his possible profit margin during haggling without trying to figure how much the surcharge percentage will be for each proposed amount. In a lot of small gun stores like the ones I frequent, the profit margins are pretty small. So I am more than willing to incur a 3% fee for using a credit card if that allows gun stores to continue to dicker a little over the prices.
You really want to know?
I was in the buisness for several years and I offered a cash discount for customers that wanted to save a little money. You act like they are just trying to make more off of you but they are not.
The gun buisness is about the only retail buisness that only has a 10-15% mark up. Jewelry,clothes, furniture, ect all sport up to 200% mark up so a 3% credit card fee means nothing to them. When you are only making $100 on a $1,000 gun the $30 credit card fee takes a bigh chunk of your profit. This is the true reason so next time you whine about a convenience fee think about the profit margin. How would you feel about a gun shop that doubled it's prices so you didn't have to pay a credit card fee?
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rbernie
Contributing Member
Look to other low-margin vertical market consumer goods markets (photography equipment, to example) and you'll see a similar approach.
Bottom line is that the fees need to be paid, and bundling the fee into the advertised price simply gives a marketing advantage to the guy who doesn't.
Bottom line is that the fees need to be paid, and bundling the fee into the advertised price simply gives a marketing advantage to the guy who doesn't.
trickyasafox
Member
its phrasing. ever go to a gas station that gives a couple cents discount when you pay cash? it is usually referred to as a 2% cash discount and not a 2% processing fee for credit- sounds better that way.
Working Man
Member
Car dealers do as well.
Salesman kept calling it cash, I said no I'm putting it on my cc. He said it is the
same thing as I was not financing it. We agreed on a price and I went back to
sit down with the guy that does the financials. He looked at the paperwork
and said I see you are paying cash I handed him my cc and he stated there
will be a 3% (IIRC) additional charge.
My response was less than High Road and I did not pay the 3%.
Salesman kept calling it cash, I said no I'm putting it on my cc. He said it is the
same thing as I was not financing it. We agreed on a price and I went back to
sit down with the guy that does the financials. He looked at the paperwork
and said I see you are paying cash I handed him my cc and he stated there
will be a 3% (IIRC) additional charge.
My response was less than High Road and I did not pay the 3%.
Hungry Seagull
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We went into a dealer for a car with a check, same as cash.
Whatever number we hammered out, we filled those numbers in and that is that.
Oh the warrantry? We declined it.
I think the entire transaction took 30 minutes flat including test drive.
Whatever number we hammered out, we filled those numbers in and that is that.
Oh the warrantry? We declined it.
I think the entire transaction took 30 minutes flat including test drive.
22-rimfire
Member
Most gun shops are small buisinesses. Cash price on purchases such as guns is frequently a few percenage points less due to the fee that credit card company charges them for the service. If I accepted credit cards, I would offer a cash price and credit card price.
daniel1113
Member
Or, gun shop owners could increase their prices by a meager 3% or so and not worry about it anymore. Hell, I bet most gun shops could get away charging 10-15% more if they provided better service and a warmer atmosphere than the big box retailers. For some reason, most of the gun shops I visit think they need to compete with these retailers in terms of price, when that simply is not the case (at least not as often as they seem to think). I routinely pay more for purchases simply because I prefer one shop over another.
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