open carry in Michigan

[fb]

I would appreciate any info anyone has on open carry experience in Mich. I realize it is legal, but have never heard of any one doing it. And if not why not?
I have carryed open while hunting with a license during hunting season but never met a conservation officer. I never carried open in a public place, wonder if anyone does?

 

[Agent_Iron]

I know some fellas do in IN. I think the issues you will face are a matter of prefference. If you carry, are you comfortable doing so, and are you ready to deal with situations where people may be very nervous in your presence. Some ignorant LEO may give you a hard time, as some are not aware of carry laws. You will also not take a crook by suprise, which may mean you will be the first to be disarmed or damaged if you are in the place where a crime is to be comitted.

My thought is, maybe you will deter some crime in the process just by deterent force, not to mention your actions may allow you to educate the masses of your legal gun rights. It is all up to you though.

Good luck

 

[Trebor]

I reccomend against open carry in Michigan. We don't really have a "tradition" of open carry here in Michigan and you are very likely to be arrested, or at a minimum harrassed, by local LEO's. You could be charged with a variety of offenses, ranging from "brandishing" to "disturbing the peace." Yes, you may win in court, but do you really want to go to court over the issue. And, if you lose, the penalties could be severe, depending on the exact charge. At the very least, you'd likely run up some serious legal fees fighting the charges and probably get your pistol confiscated and not returned.

The exception would be open carry while hunting, which is generally accepted, and in some more of the rural areas of the state where guns are more a part of every day life. But, if you want to see the inside of a jail cell, I can think of no quicker way then open carry in say, Ann Arbor.

 

[thumbody]

Another consideration is local ordinances may ban open carry.

 

[Antjo]

Another consideration is local ordinances may ban open carry.

Yes, definitely know the local laws well if you really intend on trying it. Most likely whereever you go it will be a "disturbing the piece" charge. I choose not to test the limits and just be happy MI finally issues CCWs.

 

[71Commander]

Another consideration is local ordinances may ban open carry.

We have peremption laws here in Michigan. No local law can be more severe than the state law. In other words, if it's legal by state law, it cannot be made illegal at the local level.

As to the open carry. I wouldn't try it.

 

[fb]

keep it covered up!!

Great responce, thanks alot for the advice.
I guess if there ever would be open carry here now is not the time.
I have lived in Mi most of my long life and never in my wildest dreams did I ever think we would have even concealed carry. Again thanks for your thoughts

 

[ACP230]

I've carried openly while fishing and hunting. Last year I wore a Smith M28 on my belt and carried a Smith 649 concealed while fishing.

Saw a guy riding a horse with a big revolver on his belt years ago, before concealed permits were as easy to come by. Evidently that was legal, as the horse was not a "motor vehicle."

In town, I'd rather carry concealed.

 

[Trebor]

Oh yeah, ACP230 reminded me of something I forgot. Even though open carry is legal in Michigan AS SOON as you get in your car, the gun is considered to be concealed. Doesn't matter if it's still in that same visible holster. If it's carried on your person in a vehicle, it's considered to be concealed. That alone makes open carry difficult to do since you'd have to get the gun out of the trunk, load it and holster it, go about your business and then unload the gun and secure it back in the trunk before you leave. Kinda a pain. (Of course, if you have a CPL you wouldn't need to do all this. But, if you have a CPL in the first place, why open carry?)

 

[jefnvk]

I do in the woods. Never tried it in the city, and it isn't worth it to me to push the law to see how people would take it.

But yeah, in a car it has to be encased and unloaded, so that would be a bg pain.

 

[Old Dog]

Ah, for the days when a small band of twelve-year-old boys all carrying their .22 rifles down through the neighborhoods or along the railroad tracks in the midst of a glorious Michigan summertime wouldn't cause any alarm whatsoever on the part of the citizenry. Nowadays, a groups of 12-year-olds or teenagers with guns anywhere will get the SWAT guys, Channel 7 news chopper and a multi-agency gang task force out within minutes.

Even when my good buddy Martin shot himself in the foot with his Marlin one day while we were on one of our plinking excursions (shooting at anything that struck our fancy, yet except for that one occasion, observing the 4 rules) on the outskirts of town, the ER staff and the local PD guys didn't give us too much grief (although our dads were another story).

 

[jefnvk]

Nowadays, a groups of 12-year-olds or teenagers with guns anywhere will get the SWAT guys, Channel 7 news chopper and a multi-agency gang task force out within minutes

I dunno. It wasnt more than a few years ago that me and my friends would carry BB guns down the shoulder of the road, and no one ever hasseled us for it. And you know the person making these calls isn't going to know the difference between a BB Gun and a .22.

 

[grampster]

Most incorporated villages and towns have ordinances regarding "Disorderly, by creating a disturbance." So if you are carrying openly in a populated area you are asking for trouble as you will naturally "disturb" someone and you may be arrested.

Personaly, I think carrying concealed has many advantages. The greatest of which is the fear of the unknown that this engenders in the criminal element. Shall Issue right to carry (concealed) laws are the greatest boon to a free society that we have as a result.

I have never actually understood why some folks would like to carry a firearm openly. (not counting hunting or trapping, plinking etc) The question of whether you can or can't is not the argument to me. I am a strict constructionist when it comes to the Constitution and BoR, but I also believe in discretion being the better part of valor. Carrying a firearm openly only causes folks to be uncomfortable and that isn't the reason one carries, is it? Or is the need to carry openly in places other than the range, woods, etc. somehow a ego builder? If it is, then I question whether that person really ought to go around armed.
Food for thought.

 

[Trebor]

I have never actually understood why some folks would like to carry a firearm openly. (not counting hunting or trapping, plinking etc)

I can give you a reason and a personal example:

My carry permit expires in about 45 days. The way the renewal backlog is going, I'm likely to be WITHOUT a valid permit for between two weeks and one month. It would be nice to be able to open carry during that time, even though I never would do so while I have a valid permit. (I think concealed carry is a better choice, tactically, but would open carry if that was the only option available).

I also know of people who are ineligible for a Michigan CPL under state law, BUT who ARE still eligible to own a firearm. Their only option would be open carry. (Certain misdeameanors can prevent you from receiving a CPL, but do not place you in the "prohibited persons" class where you can not longer own a firearm).

And, finally, it is a matter of "where do you draw the line" as to what is acceptable? You obviously think concealed carry is OK. But, an anti would say almost the same thing about concealed carry that you said about open carry. Just take out the references to "open carry" in your statement and it sounds like a quote from HCI.

"I have never actually understood why some folks would like to carry a firearm...Or is the need to carry ... in places other than the range, woods, etc. somehow a ego builder? If it is, then I question whether that person really ought to go around armed."

Not really trying to pick on you particularly, Grampster, just trying to show how blurry the line can get. (I do agree that open carry is generally tactically unsound. But, sometimes it may be the only option and I would like it to be a viable option. Unfortunately, in Michigan, it's not generally viable.)

 

[jerimiahjohnson]

Leo in disguise/or very bad info

trebor wrote : I reccomend against open carry in Michigan. We don't really have a "tradition" of open carry here in Michigan and you are very likely to be arrested, or at a minimum harrassed, by local LEO's. You could be charged with a variety of offenses, ranging from "brandishing" to "disturbing the peace." Yes, you may win in court, but do you really want to go to court over the issue. And, if you lose, the penalties could be severe, depending on the exact charge. At the very least, you'd likely run up some serious legal fees fighting the charges and probably get your pistol confiscated and not returned.

The exception would be open carry while hunting, which is generally accepted, and in some more of the rural areas of the state where guns are more a part of every day life. But, if you want to see the inside of a jail cell, I can think of no quicker way then open carry in say, Ann Arbor.
__________________
Rob Reed
NRA Certified Instructor (Pistol, PPITH)
SigArms Academy Certified Instructor (Pistol)
Graduate, LFI-1 & LFI-2
CCW classes and private instruction in the Metro Detroit and Lansing areas


There are so many things wrong your post it is not funny.
1: It is very legal to open carry in Mich. with out a permit. We have had a tradition of open carry it just has not been practiced in years.
2: You can be arrested for anything at anytime, and you may be stopped and question for OC'ing but you will not be arrested for disturbing the peace, & brandishing because certain criteria s have to be met in order to charge some one who is exercising a lawful and constitutional right.
3: You as instructor should know better than to recklessly say things to deter people because you may not agree, or you may not be informed.
4: We at M.O.C (opencarry.org) have plenty of members who have and would Open Carry in Ann Arbor, regardless of the population of liberals, yuppies, & hippies.

Last but not least as far as being harassed detained, arrested and visiting the inside of a jail cell, I would gladly go thru it because it is not an issue...IT'S A RIGHT WORTH FIGHTING FOR!!
I invite you and anyone who wishes to know the law and statistics to visit opencarry.org

 

[NavyLCDR]

+1 JerimiahJohnson!

Additionally, as to the "tactical advantage" of carrying concealed.... the "element of surprise" has long been regarded as an offensive strategic tactic, not a defensive tactic. On the other hand, visible deterrence is regarded as an effective defensive tactic.

However, JJ, we also have to acknowledge that Trebor is at least supportive of open carry in general!

 

[poor_richard]

Guys,

This thread is three years old. Your just digging up trash. At the time this thread was started, the comments by Trebor are pretty accurate. This topic has been covered in the past year on these boards, no need to bring up an old thread that is no longer applicable. Michigan OC has come a long way since then due the the courageous efforts of the MOC group who have been fighting for our rights.

Bringing up a three year old thread only gives the appearance of someone looking to stir things up.

 

[chris in va]

Thread necros.

 

[Trebor]

Jerimiah Johnson,

I stand by my post, even if it is three years old. (Thanks so much for digging up an old discussion just to belittle me, btw. Much appreciateed).


1. I never said open carry was "illegal" I just said I "didn't recommend it."

As to Michigan "having a tradition of open carry, it just not has been practiced in years," I still stand by my statement.

How much of a "tradition" is it, if it hasn't been practiced in years?

I don't see Michigan as having the same tradition of open carry as the states out west, for example. You can disagree, but just to claim I'm wrong because you say I'm wrong isn't going to get you very far.

2. You say, "You will not be arrested for brandishing...etc"

I say, THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE and will PROBABLY HAPPEN AGAIN.

Look at the guy who was arrested at the Grand Haven (I think it was Grand Haven) Maritime Festival.

Yes, ultimately, the charges were dropped. But, he was arrested and had to defend himself against those charges. While that consequence isn't as severe as being convicted of a crime, it is a consequence and should be realsticlly considered when deciding whether or not to open carry.

So, you're saying, "You will not be arrested" is wrong, as it obviously is a possibility.

Now, if someone is willing to take that risk, more power to them. But, you can't say the risk isn't there.

3. You call me "reckless." I don't see how giving conservative advice, designed to keep people out of legal trouble, is "reckless."

If anything, saying, "...you will not be arrested" and implying that open carry is now universally accepted through out the state and no one could *possibly* run into any problems while doing so is "reckless."

I do applaud your willingness to put your actions where your beliefts are. That is a mark of true activism.

But, don't give people advice that will make them "accidental activists" if that isn't what they intend.

Rosa Parks knew exactly what she was doing when she refused to change seats on the bus. I can agree that the open carry activists who risk legal problems are doing the same.

I'd just hate to see someone naively start to open carry, without intending to become an activist or test case, and get dragged into a legal fight that will eat away at their time, money, and energy for no good purpose.

 

[poor_richard]

Jerimiah Johnson,

I stand by my post, even if it is three years old. (Thanks so much for digging up an old discussion just to belittle me, btw. Much appreciateed).


1. I never said open carry was "illegal" I just said I "didn't recommend it."

As to Michigan "having a tradition of open carry, it just not has been practiced in years," I still stand by my statement.

How much of a "tradition" is it, if it hasn't been practiced in years?

I don't see Michigan as having the same tradition of open carry as the states out west, for example. You can disagree, but just to claim I'm wrong because you say I'm wrong isn't going to get you very far.

2. You say, "You will not be arrested for brandishing...etc"

I say, THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE and will PROBABLY HAPPEN AGAIN.

Look at the guy who was arrested at the Grand Haven (I think it was Grand Haven) Maritime Festival.

Yes, ultimately, the charges were dropped. But, he was arrested and had to defend himself against those charges. While that consequence isn't as severe as being convicted of a crime, it is a consequence and should be realsticlly considered when deciding whether or not to open carry.

So, you're saying, "You will not be arrested" is wrong, as it obviously is a possibility.

Now, if someone is willing to take that risk, more power to them. But, you can't say the risk isn't there.

3. You call me "reckless." I don't see how giving conservative advice, designed to keep people out of legal trouble, is "reckless."

If anything, saying, "...you will not be arrested" and implying that open carry is now universally accepted through out the state and no one could *possibly* run into any problems while doing so is "reckless."

I do applaud your willingness to put your actions where your beliefts are. That is a mark of true activism.

But, don't give people advice that will make them "accidental activists" if that isn't what they intend.

Rosa Parks knew exactly what she was doing when she refused to change seats on the bus. I can agree that the open carry activists who risk legal problems are doing the same.

I'd just hate to see someone naively start to open carry, without intending to become an activist or test case, and get dragged into a legal fight that will eat away at their time, money, and energy for no good purpose.
__________________

+1

Great post.

People who chose to OC in Michigan should be aware of not only the law, but also their rights, and (more importantly) how to properly assert them without escalating any potential encounter (be it LEO or private citizen).

The last thing the Michigan OC movement needs is this:

I'd just hate to see someone naively start to open carry, without intending to become an activist or test case, and get dragged into a legal fight that will eat away at their time, money, and energy for no good purpose.

 

[jerimiahjohnson]

Never said you said it wasn't legal. If your post wasn't the third search result on Google under "opencarry" I never would have seen it. So it is not like I went and dug it up. I just don't think some one certified by an organization who believes in the 2nd amendment as adamantly as the NRA would appreciate this kinda of agenda. Though I do respect your opinion. We will just have to agree to disagree. I know OC is Just. More so than cc. Actually if you wanted to get technical the second says Keep(to have) & Bear(to show) Conceal is a privilege otherwise you would not need a permit. That's the beauty of the Mich. Const. it's the reason there's no law that states you may open carry (it's assumed), but it's the reason there's no law against it. It's common sense how would you be able to keep and bear for self defense, & the security of a free state.

 

[Bezoar]

the only things that adress open carry are the DNR handbook for hunting with a handgun. and an attorney generals statement letter that open cary is legal in michigan for about 60 years.
However every municipality has the legal right to make its own rules on exposed handguns.

 

[Trebor]

However every municipality has the legal right to make its own rules on exposed handguns.

No, actually they don't.

Michigan has a firearms preemption law which means that no local unit of government can pass a firearms related law stricter then any state law.

That means that since open carry is legal state-wide, no local municipality can ban it in their local area. The preemption law is also why local cities can't ban concealed carry either.

The only real exception to the preemption law is that local units of goverment can still place restrictions on the *discharge* of firearms within city limits. That's allows them, for example, to restrict hunting within their communities.

The Michigan Firearms Preemption law has been on the books since 1990 (IIRC).

 

[NavyLCDR]

Dang it, Tebor, you beat me to it. +1 on the preemption laws.... seems like there is a lot of misunderstanding and misconceptions about open carry.

 

[fspitzdorf]

State firearms laws and pre-emption do not apply to Universities in the state such as U of M, MSU and Wayne State.. They are governing bodies unto themselves and AFAIK, all firearms, concealed or not are off limits from the moment you step foot on university grounds...

Open Carry has been and is thoroughly discussed, ongoing, at the Michigan Gun Owners website.. Quite a few open carry get togethers in various cities around the state are actually coming up.