Open carry vs. Concealed

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I look at it as a question whether I want to lay a trap or carry a repellant.

Do I want to spend my time slapping misquitoes or just walk through the swarms?

The "You will get shot first" responders are speculating. Linky?

Those that claim to have a tactical advantage by ccw also should be aware that when they whack the bg, there is a good chance that they will get to defend themselves in court.

Me, I choose the repellant.

Let somebody else go to court.
 
as to concealed carry, on American Hunter they posted a story about a man who was grabbed by two guys from in front and one from behind, they opened his car and robbed him. as the two criminals were walking away the third one decides to pull a gun out and aims it at the victims head.... well the guy had a CCW and shot the man, instantly killing him, the other two guys ran off. the man with the CCW then went on to say something along these lines "i wasn't gonna do anything. i was just gonna let them leave. when he pulled the gun on me, i decided he wasn't gonna get that far."

maybe if they knew he was carrygin they wouldn't have robbed him, or maybe they would have just shot him from behind
 
I've had this discussion a few times and I just don't understand the position people take against open-carry.

I've got a CCW. I've tried open-carry a few times because I think it's the "right" thing to do.

But I quit because I don't like the way it makes me feel -- I feel like everybody is staring at me.

I just don't understand these people that say "bad guys will assume you're a cop and shoot you".

I don't get it.

Mike
 
I have to preface this by saying I am not a pshrink, nor am I any kind of FBI profiler, so this opinion may be worth just what you pay for it, but...

Let's discuss criminals for a second. On one spectrum, you have the drug-addicted petty criminal. He's in it for a quick score. He doesn't plan his crimes in advance, he doesn't care much about leaving evidence behind (including witnesses who can give detailed descriptions)... he's mostly a "crime of opportunity" kind of guy. He's going to see an openly carried gun, and go the other way. He's not going to look at the bearer, and try to decide if that perrson is an off-duty cop, or not. He's just going to scram.

On the other spectrum is the professional thief. He plans out his robberies carefully, makes sure he doesn't leave any evidence behind, and he's going to make sure that his target is worth his effort. You won't see him coming, or going. He'll hit your house while you're away.

Somewhere in between are the guys you have to worry about. They're career criminals. They rob people every day. It's how they make their living, so they have a lot of experience. They choose their victims carefully, and choose their moments to strike so that they have every advantage, and their victims are at a total disadvantage. One of these guys may see an expensive gun carried openly, and figure the bearer might have more valuable items on his person. If not, at least there's the gun to be stolen. This guy will try to figure his odds, and if he can make a situation happen where he can take you by surprise, he may figure it's worth it. You may turn a blind corner and walk straight into a brick.

I know there have been stories posted here of people carrying openly being robbed. I did a quick search on "open carry", but I got so many hits that I just didn't have the patience to go through them all. These facts are true, though: In prison interviews, convicts have made it plain that they fear armed citizens more than being caught by the police. Also, one of their biggest worries is not knowing if a potential victim is armed or not.

If you're ever involved in a situation like a violent robbery, the criminal chooses all the factors so that he has the advantage. He chooses the time, the place, and the method of approach. All you can do is react, and as is axiomatic, "action is faster than reaction". If you're carrying concealed, you have a tactical advantage over the criminal, in that he doesn't know you're armed, so he can't take that into account when making his plans. Nine times out of ten, or 99 times out of a hundred, carrying openly may deter a petty thief from trying to rob you. That last time, though... carrying concealed will be the only tactical advantage you have. I just don't know why you would want to give it up.
 
Nine times out of ten, or 99 times out of a hundred, carrying openly may deter a petty thief from trying to rob you. That last time, though... carrying concealed will be the only tactical advantage you have.
Click to expand...

Okay, so carrying Open kept nine thieves from robbing me, but if I carry concealed I'll have to draw my gun to deal with 9 of them in a row?

What if thief #6 outdraws me and shoots me before thief #10 gets a chance to sneak up behind me and bludgeon me IOT steal my open-carry gun?


Now if we go to the "99/100" odds, I'd imagine that at least one of the 99 thieves that the Open Carry repelled would've messed me up good.

These Open Carry odds are looking far better than the alternative!

-MV
 
Open carry = Ricola, Ridiculous

Lose element of surprise.
Increased concerns/issues with weapon retention.
Maybe deter some but make you a target for others.


A number of years ago there was a ranch worker, in Eastern Oregon, who was shot (in the back), killed, and had his truck and handgun stolen. Later on the 2 perps were caught and during the trial one struck a deal for a reduced sentence. What came from that testimony was that his partner had decided to shoot the rancher because he carried a firearm and he didn't want to risk getting shot himself. Had the rancher been carrying concealed - it may have turned out differently with either a dead perp or maybe just a stolen truck.

I can understand if you are hunting, fishing, hiking and/or even "ranching" and your threats are 4 legged animals and quick accessiblity to a firearm is needed............

However

Open carry, for self defense against 2 legged predators, has too many disadvantages and definitely qualifies you as potential Darwin award winner.
 
Personally, I think that folks should be allowed to carry as they see fit. What is convenient for them. Were that more commonplace, then sheeple wouldn't react so vigorously upon discovering that their fellow citizen is armed.

Personally, on a day to day basis, I'd prefer to keep my carry piece out of the direct line if view. However, if I print or it gets exposed, I shouldn't have to worry about legal repercussions for an innocent slip. Some days it might be more convenient for me to be openly carrying and then that is how I wold want to do it - without hassle.

Carrying a gun, to me, is not making a statement. It isn't intended as a "bad guys better look for someone else to attack" sign. It is a tool and as commonly worn as my watch, wallet, keys, pocket knife, and sunglasses. It really is beyond me as to why some folks really get highly upset over someone carrying the means to defend their family.
 
Element of surprise

Being familiar with the Tueller drill, I can't understand why anyone feels they will be able to overcome an attacker by drawing from concealment without being injured by their assailant who would presumably already have the drop on them while threatening deadly force. I think I would prefer criminals to steer clear or me because I appear armed, then to have to try to beat them on the draw. I agree you could be attacked first for open carry but realistically how often does this happen to civilian carriers? Its a hypothetical scenario without much track record in reality.
 
Open Carry

I think that folks should be allowed to carry as they see fit
Click to expand...

That is my take. Another advantage of open carry-if you're carrying concealed and your gun shows, no problem in an open-carry state. ;) If you're not, you better cover that gun quick ! :eek: No "failure to conceal" nonsense. :rolleyes:
 
As far as LAW goes, I think open carry should be allowed just so you aren't prosecuted for showing a bit of handgrip...cough, Texas, cough... or if carrying concealed (whether complete or in whole) is impractical due to attire, like dockers and a tucked in button down shirt.

As far as tactical sensibilities, I think most bank robbers/muggers/etc. don't use their guns to kill, they use them to scare. Criminals are generally dumb, yet they're smart enough to know the difference between armed robbery and murder. They want cash IN their hands, not blood ON their hands. Therefore knowing that people in a bank may be carrying concealed discourages the robbery and seeing people open carry reinforces the idea that robbing the bank may be a bad idea.
 
For those who think that open carry is a sort of liability for one reason or another - why are these supposed liabilities not apparent where open carry has been the norm for so long?

How many people carrying pistols on a belt have been mugged, robbed or disarmed in these states? I have never heard or read of a single instant, and I would venture that if the numbers could even be stretched to even give the appearence of significance lobbyists for gun control would be all over them. Why are they not doing so?

While statistically some cities in open carry states might have some street crime at higher levels than some towns in the most tightly controlled states - how many of the actual street crime victims in the open carry states are among those victims?

----------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
Now if we go to the "99/100" odds, I'd imagine that at least one of the 99 thieves that the Open Carry repelled would've messed me up good.

These Open Carry odds are looking far better than the alternative
Click to expand...

Obviously, my stated "odds" are just illustrative of why I think carrying concealed is more tactically sound. There are no statistics that I know of to show how many potential robberies were avoided because the robber was "repelled" by open carry of a weapon.

I do think the option should be left up to the individual. I just don't understand why you would want to give up your only advantage. I mean, if you're at a retirement picnic for an out-going Texas Ranger, and all the other Rangers there have their BBQ guns on, then there's no advantage lost. But if you're in a bank, and you're the only person there showing a gun, and the robbers happen to choose that day to rob the bank, what is the robber's first likely course of action? Disarm or kill the only armed person they see. OTOH, if you're carrying concealed, you have the choice of whether to bring yourself and your gun into play, or just let the event happen while being a good witness.

Now, I'm sure you can think of just as many scenarios where open carry is best as I can think of scenarios where concealed is best. Each situation is different. That's why I think the option is best left up to the individual. I also think I know what's best for me, though.
 
Being a crime victim myself a few times I have a unique perspective.

The vast majority of criminals are not looking for a gunfight or any type resistance. They are seeking your possesions. If a mugger is casing potential victims, or a thief casing houses, they generally take the path of least resistance. There are exceptions to this rule, but not many.
 
don't overreact. and he makes a very good point, with a bit of flare. in this country we consider ourselves to be born with the right to keep and bear arms. his point is that we have no reason to hide something, the right of which, we are born into.
Maybe I did overreact, my apologies. I just didn't really get his point and to be honest, I still don't. NBD, time for the next series of posts...
 
Longwatch,

You make some good points. Let me qualify what I am about to say by stating that Open Carry should remain legal with no restrictions (about where it is now in VA). However, I just don't see any real point to it.

I haven't seen anyplace where open carry has resulted in a backlash against gun rights. If anything open carry helps our numbers to grow.

I don't see any backlash either... yet. I feel that it's going to happen and the less "in your face" perceived behaviors we project the better. As for helping our numbers grow, that's up for debate. I haven't seen any real evidence anywhere that can be shown how Open Carry makes our numbers grow. However, I am very interested in seeing that as it lends a credence to our cause.

As for scaring people, doesn't happen, and police interactions are pretty rare. Have to agree and disagree here.
It does scare people, not all the time and not in every place, but it does scare people. Have to agree that police interactions are rare, but when they do happen they are a doozy: http://www.newsleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061029/OPINION01/610290325

I'm beginning to think the tactical advantage of concealed carry are overstated. I mean drawing on someone who is already presenting a threat or has the drop on you seems to be a desperation move. Sure if you life is in danger you do what you must but few people could draw from concealment and beat someone who already has a gun or knife drawn.

I disagree, Concealed Carry holders have a much better tactical situation than someone Open Carrying. They have surprise. Open Carriers don't. I agree with your point on drawing on someone who is already presenting a threat, would I draw on someone pointing a gun at me? Probably not. If it was a knife, depends on the distance. The advantage of a Concealed Carry is obvious, the bad guy doesn't know you have a piece on you and doesn't know that the tables can be turned. There are methods to preventing being a victim of something happen too: Don't be in Condition White, be aware of your surroundings, and be ready to draw, point, and shoot in under 2 seconds if your life is in danger.

There are few cases of civilian open carriers being attacked for their gun. Until we have evidence that open carriers are victims of crime at a greater rate than the general public or CCW's it is a gratuitous assertion that can be gratuitously denied.

Granted there are few cases of attacks, but you can't stick your head in the sand here and state that it's a gratutitous assertion. There can't be that many people open carrying compared to the number who do Concealed Carry. I bet if there were statistics available on how many people open carry and then compare that with the amount of published attacks on people open carrying, I think you might find a rate that's startlingly high. Perhaps statistically insignificant from the 50K foot level, when compared to attacks vs little old ladies, but to the members who make up that statistic, it's vitally important.

I appreciate your points and you make some good arguments for Open Carry. I agree it needs to be kept legal and nothing further needs to be done to restrict it (I tend to be "no compromise" on gun rights). I just don't see the point of it.

Thanks again for the post, I will add it to my list of THR posts that got me thinking!
TJ
TJ
__________________
 
cetee, A few problems with that report.

1) It is an extremely small sample group.

2) If one were to seach hard enough they could find a report to prove anything they wish. Just as the anti-gun groups come up with reports all the time assigning the violent crime in this country being the exclusive fault of gun ownership.

3) They fail to mention, or ask the question, if those same 80+ criminals would approach or attempt to rob someone who they knew was armed.

Not much of a thrill being shot in the chest by a .357.

BTW- I saw the new Bond flick lat night. Best 007 movie in a long time.
 
cetee, A few problems with that report.

1) It is an extremely small sample group.

2) If one were to seach hard enough they could find a report to prove anything they wish. Just as the anti-gun groups come up with reports all the time assigning the violent crime in this country being the exclusive fault of gun ownership.

3) They fail to mention, or ask the question, if those same 80+ criminals would approach or attempt to rob someone who they knew was armed.

Not much of a thrill being shot in the chest by a .357.
Click to expand...

True. That said, none of the criminals I've ever met (and I've met quite a few) hated their chosen profession so much that they quit stealing and found jobs. No matter who you are, no matter where you go, the potential exists for you to become a victim. It's up to you to determine what factors are going to weigh in your favor. It's up to you to not walk around in Condition White, and it's up to you whether you want to carry open (if legal) or concealed (if legal).

My choice, generally, is concealed.
 
100+ years ago...Open Carry.
Given today's society and the low percentage of the total population are handgun owners and even less CHL holders ... Concealed ... (I'd rather keep the BG's guessing.)
 
one tactical advantage of carrying open rather than concealed is a slightly faster draw...

i carry concealed because most people feel weird about guns and i would rather not have them feel like im a "gun nut", cant walk into an engineering firm with a gun showing, i never see anyone in the mall, or the grocery store...I wonder why? because the reality is 95% of people will never use the gun they carry.
 
If I had the opportunity to open carry I would do so when the situation required it. I make night deposits after I close my stores and i would love to have a nickle plated .45 (or some other high visibilty gun) in plain view. A big nickle plated .50 Desert Eagle would do the trick :D . I dont think the criminals would respect the subtle beauty of my Sig.
 
Up Onus, I dont have a calculator handy, but what would would the numbers be in 5% of CCW holders actually had to use their gun at some point. You cant convey sarcarsm on keyboard so i assure you I am jerking your chain a bit...:neener:
 
Statistics

Tinygnat
I really don't think you can say either way that open carriers are attacked at a higher percentage than concealed carriers. While you bet that they are I bet the opposite. I base my wager on the statistic I read that stated 56% of felons would not attack someone who is armed. Right there open carry reduces my chance of victimization by more than half. I think that when actually faced with an armed potential victim the percentage of criminals choosing easier prey is higher. There is a question if open carry makes you an attractive victim to criminals. I think the answer to that is not by itself. If the open carrier is alert and wary, I think a criminal would pass. If he is in condition white maybe not. I think we can agree though, that if one is in condition white you have no business carrying concealed or openly.

As for LEO encounters, they are rare here in Virginia. I have open carried around LEOs several times and they never made any indication that they cared. The Casi Di Scottos incident was unfortunate but the open carriers still left with their weapons. Personally knowing one of the participants involved, it was an unpleasant ordeal but not so bad that he won't continue OC. Interestingly in that situation (in a restaurant) the only way to be legally armed is to open carry. Now if you are afraid to OC you can leave your weapon in your car but I will choose to OC and be armed should the need arise. Anyhow time will tell if will happen again with that department but if previous experiences with other localities is any guide probably not.
 
Open carry, for self defense against 2 legged predators, has too many disadvantages and definitely qualifies you as potential Darwin award winner.
Click to expand...

Wow, considering that the Darwin awards are awarded to people like criminals who look down the barrel of their gun and then pull to trigger to see if that works, I don't see how you can call open carriers Darwin award winners.

Despite all of the open carrying that occurs in the states of Arizona and Virginia, I've only have heard of two people who have either been beaten and their gun stolen or shot for their gun. One in Phoenix about 5 years ago, and one in Virginia earlier this year. That's it.

You know, I think it interesting to note that that it seems that only concealed-only carriers bash open carriers, but it's never the other way around. Here's a clue: Us open carriers DO conceal sometimes, which is why we'd never bash the practice.

Considering that I'm doing what I can to restore open carry in the Seattle and Portland metro areas , these sort of comments are suprising. It was only in the last 30 to 40 years has open carry been a lost art. We're bringing it back.

-Lonnie
 
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