Opinions On Pistol Red Dots Requested

[wally]

For me, on a defensive pistol no batteries need apply! YMMV. No Trijicon competitor has this option yet!
I've a lifetime of infrequently used battery powered things that don't work next time I need them simply because the batteries are dead.

Sure they have "long battery life" and I'm very happy with my battery powered red dots on range guns, but I've extra batteries in my range bag which has salvaged an outing multiple times. Most recently my SIG P320 RX, which I haven't had all that long, but do shoot it quite a lot, the factory supplied battery went dead last time out, no warning, fortunately I had a spare in my bag. But if I'd needed it "for real" it'd be little better than "I fart in your general direction".

If the batteries are dead out of your holster, its very bad news! Sure you can set them up to have very high profile BUIS (which increase the possibility of snagging on the draw), but if I could still effectively use iron sights I'd not be bothering with red dots on my pistols!

 

[rpenmanparker]

The red dot on a defensive pistol can’t be considered rarely used. It has to be considered constantly used. Every minute you are carrying it, you are using it. The batteries must be considered expendable. They are so cheap on Amazon and eBay that you simply throw them away once a week if you are carrying a pistol every day. No chance of a failure.

It is a lot like smoke alarm batteries. You don’t wait for them to fail in the middle of the night and wake you up with the beeping. You change them twice a year on the daylight saving time change days. That way with their guaranteed long life there is no chance of a failure during the few months in between. Same for the red dot battery. Just change it on a regular schedule before it could possibly fail. Of course for a range gun, it isn’t a problem. Just carry a spare battery in your range bag. But for defensive carry the regularly replaced battery plan is the way to go. What? $1 a week?

 

[tarosean]

They are so cheap on Amazon and eBay that you simply throw them away once a week if you are carrying a pistol every day. No chance of a failure.

Not entirely true, a lot of the common failures is the batteries loosing their contacts. I would imagine that you would escalate wear changing so often too. New batteries won't exactly help that situation.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Not entirely true, a lot of the common failures is the batteries loosing their contacts. I would imagine that you would escalate wear changing so often too. New batteries won't exactly help that situation.

They do tend to lose contact if the cover loosens. I would think that changing the battery every week or so would result in the cover staying tight. But who knows?

 

[wally]

I would think that changing the battery every week or so would result in the cover staying tight. But who knows?

On my range guns with battery red dots, I've never had the cover come loose, specifically, the first thing I do when the dot is dead is tighten the cover and its never been loose or got the dot going again. Changing the battery has always done the trick except for the two Fastfires I returned to Burris and they replaced for free (I have six on various pistols). That is why I say they do honor their "no weasel words" guarantee. I consider the Fastfire III the best place to start with a red dot on a non-defensive pistol, not saying you couldn't use it on a defense gun, just saying I wouldn't.

For red dots I don't subscribe to the idea of "buy once, cry once" since not everyone's eyesight is conducive to using red dots -- things like myopia, astigmatism, or poor binocular vision can make tham not work very well for you. So I recommend starting with the the least expensive one that you can count on, which in my experience is the Burris Fastfire III.

It also takes some getting used to using them as you must look "thru" the dot and focus on the target which can be difficult after years of "focus on the front sight". But this is IMHO their biggest advantage, as I don't care who you are, its damn hard to focus on the front sight instead of the threat if the bullets might be flying both ways!

 

[tarosean]

It also takes some getting used to using them as you must look "thru" the dot and focus on the target which can be difficult after years of "focus on the front sight".

This is something that cannot be stressed enough. It is entirely different shooting a pistol with a RD. you have to commit 100% to the setup or don't bother.

 

[Havok7416]

What's the consensus (if any) on the size of a dot for use on a pistol? For example, the Fastfire has both 8 and 3 MOA models available. I assume other brands also offer similar models but I haven't fully researched all that yet.

 

[rpenmanparker]

What's the consensus (if any) on the size of a dot for use on a pistol? For example, the Fastfire has both 8 and 3 MOA models available. I assume other brands also offer similar models but I haven't fully researched all that yet.

Depends upon the application. For close defensive work where quick acquisition and holding acquisition are paramount, you use a larger dot. The larger dot is much easier to pick up especially in very bright conditions. For more precise range work, slower shooting, and more distant targets you want a smaller dot. The Vortex Venom comes in 3 MOA and 6 MOA for that reason.

Besides the acquisition speed think of the precision. A 6 MOA reticle results in a half inch dot image on the target at 10 yards. That's pretty darn good for an easy-to-pick up reticle and precise shooting at a defensive distance. The quarter inch dot image with a 3 MOA dot wouldn't be any better for necessary precision really, but would be harder to pick up. But at 100 yards for varmint hunting, the dot image looks like a 6-inch circle. Not so good. The 3 MOA dot would be a better choice giving a 3-inch circle. And in between? Well you just have to choose.

Another thought about this: for shooting defensively you are advised to shoot as fast as you can maintain a palm-sized spread of target strikes, no faster, no slower. Relative to the size of your palm the difference between a 1/4 and a 1/2 inch is negligible. But if the dot is much easier to acquire and reaquire, the speed you can shoot and still keep you shots within a palm spread is much likely to be a lot faster. It is entirely likely that the larger dot can result in a smaller shot spread than the smaller dot...at the same shooting rate. Or conversely that you can keep the same spread at a faster rate with the larger dot, not the smaller one.

 

[Walkalong]

For fast defensive use at the close range it will happen at, the larger dot is much faster, and as precise as you need it to be.

 

[straightshooterjake]

As others have stated, the best size for the dot is dependent on the intended usage. With that said, I will offer a couple of thoughts.

On all of the red dot sights I have used, when the dot is bright and visible, its visual appearance is quite a bit larger than its rated size. On many sights, a 3 MOA dot will mostly obscure a clay pigeon at 50 yards. So the appearance of the dot is much larger than the 1.5" that a precise 3 MOA dot would cover at 50 yards.

I personally have never thought "I wish the dot was larger," but I have had cases where the was dot too large for precise work. Of course, as the statement above implied, I sometimes shoot clay pigeons at 50 yards with a red dot on a pistol. Your results may vary depending on the distance, speed and precision that you require, but I prefer a smaller dot. When the small dot is bright, I do not find it is a hindrance in terms of speed.

 

[a2x4bbl]

Burris Fast Fire 3 is basically same width as a glock slide. I have several thousand rounds through this 17 with very hot Autocomp loads . Zero problems and never lost zero . Lifetime warranty
I will definitely buy another for an upcoming CZ P.O. 9 project.

.

 

[Havok7416]

Do pistol-mounted optics generally allow for a sight picture when a can is mounted? I found a killer deal on a threaded barrel for my G19 but it would end up being money wasted if I can't see my target.

 

[tarosean]

^^^^^^Edit... Are u talking about the RDS or "iron" sights???

No you will need higher sights or ditch them all to gether for irons. But most RDS sit high enough to change your hold so should be okay.

 

[HexHead]

Leupold Deltapoint Pro is a solid option at $399.

 

[a2x4bbl]

Do pistol-mounted optics generally allow for a sight picture when a can is mounted? I found a killer deal on a threaded barrel for my G19 but it would end up being money wasted if I can't see my target.

Well it depends , some cans are offset and work with factory sights . Most cans are not . I have suppressor sights on 2 Glock 17's . Ameriglo and Trijicon. The Trijicon' s are taller . The Ameriglo are on the 17 in the picture and are usable through the Fast Fire 3 . I would think a little research on the can will tell you .I have seen many Glock 19's with cans and tall sights. I like the taller sight because it just seems like I find it faster , red dot or not. But , I do not have a can , yet . Hope this was helpful.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Do pistol-mounted optics generally allow for a sight picture when a can is mounted? I found a killer deal on a threaded barrel for my G19 but it would end up being money wasted if I can't see my target.

You can mount the red dot on a riser mount to avoid the problem.

 

[Havok7416]

^^^^^^Edit... Are u talking about the RDS or "iron" sights???

No you will need higher sights or ditch them all to gether for irons. But most RDS sit high enough to change your hold so should be okay.

Well it depends , some cans are offset and work with factory sights . Most cans are not . I have suppressor sights on 2 Glock 17's . Ameriglo and Trijicon. The Trijicon' s are taller . The Ameriglo are on the 17 in the picture and are usable through the Fast Fire 3 . I would think a little research on the can will tell you .I have seen many Glock 19's with cans and tall sights. I like the taller sight because it just seems like I find it faster , red dot or not. But , I do not have a can , yet . Hope this was helpful.

I was indeed referring to RDS sights. Once I mount an RDS I have no particular use for irons or co-witnessed irons, although I may address that later. I will be looking for the shortest can I can reasonably buy if I go through with everything, so I may be limited on how the can clocks.

 

[wally]

It would be an awfully fat can to block the view with a red dot. But even with stock iron sights, give your suppressor a try first, you may be surprised how minimal the "blocking the sights" issue can be as you are focusing on the front sight so the target is a blur anyways. Surprised the heck out of me when I got a threaded barrel for my SIG P220 SAO. But then I mostly shoot steel plates where speed is king as long as precision is "good enough".

 

[rpenmanparker]

It would be an awfully fat can to block the view with a red dot. But even with stock iron sights, give your suppressor a try first, you may be surprised how minimal the "blocking the sights" issue can be as you are focusing on the front sight so the target is a blur anyways. Surprised the heck out of me when I got a threaded barrel for my SIG P220 SAO. But then I mostly shoot steel plates where speed is king as long as precision is "good enough".

Focusing on the front sight is well and good, but it doesn't mean you don't have to see the target. After all you aren't trying to shoot the front sight. The front sight has to line up with what you want to hit. I imagine some suppressors would block the line of sight from the sights to the target. As I said, it isn't a problem with red dots due to the availability of riser mounts.

 

[wally]

Its sort of like why the AR front sight tower doesn't generally interfere with using a scope. Like I said I was surprised when I tried it and decided I didn't need to buy taller supressor sights for my SIG P220 SAO. These old eyes much prefer red dots these days, but all I'm suggesting is to try it before deciding to change anything more that adding a treaded barrel.

 

[a2x4bbl]

I was indeed referring to RDS sights. Once I mount an RDS I have no particular use for irons or co-witnessed irons, although I may address that later. I will be looking for the shortest can I can reasonably buy if I go through with everything, so I may be limited on how the can clocks.

I was indeed referring to RDS sights. Once I mount an RDS I have no particular use for irons or co-witnessed irons, although I may address that later. I will be looking for the shortest can I can reasonably buy if I go through with everything, so I may be limited on how the can clocks.

Sorry about , was having a brain fart . Seems to happen more as I get older . My point I was trying to make ( and failed miserably at ) was if these taller suppressor sights work with the cans ( and they do) , then any red dot ( the dot itself ) will clear with ease regardless of how it's mounted. The tall front sight just helps me find the dot much faster.

 

[Havok7416]

I thought so, but it certainly doesn't hurt to ask.