Opinions on the SVT-40?

[barnbwt]

Hey ya'll, thought I'd ask about a rifle I don't see mentioned real often in the flurry of Mosins and SKS's out there. I'd like to include a unique Russian to the growing milsurp portion of my gunsafe, and the SVT 40 seems to fill the niche of "powerful-plinker" beautifully.

-What are their pros/cons as a fun plinker and their proficiency at hunting and target shooting?

-Are they sturdily built, and with a safe action, or are they "one of those you have to be careful with?" Are they built to better standards of manufacture than other period Russian guns?

-Any wierd quirks or nit-picks a buyer should be aware of? Are there similar but "better" rifles out there I should look at first (not necessarily milsurp)?

-Lastly, what prices have you seen for these (looks like 800$+ is the going rate on GB, a bit high methinks for a rough-shod semiauto)

I ask because I am, unintentionally, filling my arsenal with pieces that seem to rate highly on the "Most fun ___ to ___" lists. Since I apparently have the same tastes as a lot of folks here, I thought I should ask ya'll for guidance

So far;
I have 2 K31's, which look to be the #1 or #2 best-made bolt rifles of the war (easily), and, ostensibly, crazily accurate (no range time yet)
The VZ-58 is next on my to-buy list and is highly regarded among semi-auto carbines as more "comfy," "ergonomic," and "controllable" than AK's
Lastly, my FNAR is a hoot for rapid, precise, (but expensive) paper-punching, though a tad too easy at 100yds

The High Road's wisdom is 3/3 for my rifle purchases so far, tell me what you think of the SVT-40

TCB

 

[56hawk]

I'm pretty happy with mine. Not the most reliable rifle, but a lot of that is due to worn out seventy year old parts. Still plenty accurate though. Here is a hundred yard group I shot with mine:

 

[firesky101]

Well I do think it is my favorite rifle (sorry to my AR-15 if it learns to use the internet), just take a look at my signature line. Sorry to say that if you live in the USA $800 is a going rate, cheapest I saw at the last gunshow was $690 without magazines (not fun to find or fit) and the highest for a grand or a garand (his words). If you want to live with our fine neighbors to the north you can get them for $300 all day long (5 round magazines). FWIW I would not have paid $800 for mine, but now that I own one I find that to be a fair price for a sweet rifle.

So to the quirks. Magazines can require some fitting and are very expensive. Use 147gr ammo the actions are strong, but the stocks can crack with abuse. Think of it like a garand (I am going to get flamed for this) that has a box mag, and can shoot really cheap ammo if you don't mind cleaning. If you can spend some time with the rifle before you buy, check the gas system for corrosion and the stock for cracks. Other than that enjoy comrade

 

[Buck Kramer]

Gun shows around here have them for $630-$730, I also think $800 is a little high. That being said I would LOVE to have one.

 

[Vaarok]

Do it, they're worth it. I've had as many as five, though that got a bit silly and I reduced down to just two.

Ten shot semiauto, same mechanism as a FAL, decent sights (which for all the chest-thumping about aperture sights being unconditionally better, work better in dim light), a simple enough mechanism to take down once you've field-stripped it a couple times, and generally a very fun and cheap rifle to shoot.

Drawbacks are price and variable condition. You might get a former Naval Infantry rifle that was maintained immaculately and killed hundreds of Germans, or you might get a rifle that was dropped in the snow in November and fished out in May.

Most of the whining about the design comes from people who get a rough rifle, are terrified of corrosive ammo, or don't bother to bear in mind they're shooting something designed in the early thirties and produced during a war by factories on the frontlines.

I love mine.

 

[451 Detonics]

They are good rifles, accurate, powerful, and reliable. Price is really the only downside to these rifles. my only other complaint about the one I owned was an occasional problem with the rimmed cartridges causing failures to feed.

Another great rifle that is similar in 8X57 is the Hakim, nice examples can be found for about half that of the SVT's and extended mags are easy to form. These have a great muzzle brake, low recoil, very reliable, adjustable gas system,and accuracy on par with the SVT.

here is a nice example at a very nice buy it now price...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=285756596

 

[Sam1911]

Are there similar but "better" rifles out there I should look at first (not necessarily milsurp)?

There's always the AVT-40. Betch can't guess what the "A" stands for!

I've only ever seen one, and the cost would be a little different. But hard to top for the COOL factor.

 

[Cosmoline]

Like the Garand they're an early attempt at a semi auto battle rifle. Good, but not perfect. I think a lot of the reliability issues come down to the wide mix of 54R surplus and a general poor knowledge base about these rifles. Imagine if we were shooting Garands with no veterans to give us pointers, no manuals to look at, and no instructional material. We'd have to learn all the little problems and tweaks as we went along, we'd be ill-prepared to judge the gunflesh at the shop, and the Garand would be known as a jam-o-matic. People would be running them with hot .30'06, running them with no grease, making improper mods to them, etc. If you go in for them, check out the various forums where this knowledge base has been painstakingly recreated. There you will find pointers on what to make sure to clean, lube and how to feed and care for the beast.

If you don't want to mess with that, there are later designs like the SAFN or PSL that will work well without as much fuss and that aren't banged up by the Ostfront.

 

[TurtlePhish]

I like this thread. I've been wishing for an SVT for a while.

 

[mesinge2]

I like this thread. I've been wishing for an SVT for a while.

Me too!

 

[CountryUgly]

I'd love to have one myself but I just can't make myself pay the going rate these days. But if I ever catch one in the 500 dollar range I'm all over it.

 

[Shadow 7D]

VZ 52
there is the unique rifle

 

[zoom6zoom]

I love mine, very fun to shoot.
Vaarok, that's a nice looking Navy rifle. (For those not familiar, the Naval Infantry version can be identified by the sling cut in the buttstock).

 

[barnbwt]

Thanks for the replies folks, glad some of ya'll could chase up some alternatives. Here's what I've come away with so far (tell me if I'm forgetting any or got my info wrong);

-SVT 40; seems like the ship has sailed on these as an accessible milsurp, 800$+ is just too much (for me anyway). Heck, I paid only 100$ more my .308 FNAR, an infinitely more refined rifle. Appears well made among Russian service arms of the era, but parts are basically non-existent these days. Light and handy, though long. Suprisingly accurate considering its manufacture quality.

-FN 49; looks almost as good as the SVT, prices are climbing on these, too (700$+). Seems word has gotten out about these under-appreciated rifles. Very well made, more sophisticated/perfected, but shoots a (slightly) less common round (8mm Mauser) than 7.62R (There is a 30-06 on GB for 1300$) Supposedly more accurate than the SVT 40 (more consistent gun-to-gun, too).

-Hakim; Plays a similar role to the FN 49, 8mm mag fed Semi-Auto. Again, very well made. Apparently Swede-designed (and made on their tooling by the Egyptians), so it would play well with my K31's. Much lower price than it's competitors at ~500$ (thanks for mentioning the Hakim, 451 Detonics, hadn't heard of this one)

-VZ52; I discovered this one a few months back after confusing my CZ 52 and the VZ 58 in a Google search . Seems to be the Czech version of the SKS concept, but, like the VZ 58, better executed than the Russian counterpart. Seems the 7.62x45 ammo is quite sparse, and the rifles available aren't in the greatest condition

The Hakim, a rifle I hadn't heard of previously, seems to be my favorite thus far. If they ever made these guns (of equal quality) in more common calibers, I think I'd be all over one for 500$. Were any variants or conversions made?

Gosh, but those SVT's look pretty, though... a handsome Naval-Issue on GB is already bid north of 800$, with 6 days of bidding left...

TCB

 

[Sam1911]

The Hakim, a rifle I hadn't heard of previously, seems to be my favorite thus far.

You might be able to get a good deal on one from a confused looking man missing a thumb.


They're cool rifles. Really cool. They have a loading and charging operation that can only be described (generously) as perplexing. And they make the infamous tendency of the good ol' Garand to nip the thumbs of the uninitiated seem like a playful nuzzle from a lab puppy!

An Hakim would make a mighty good home-defense rifle. Just leave it out where the burglars are likely to enter. They'll stop, totally derailed by their curious inability to make it work, and then awaken you with their screams.

No, seriously...they're very cool rifles!

 

[barnbwt]

"You might be able to get a good deal on one from a confused looking man missing a thumb (or with a hole in his hand)" amended it for ya...

Yeah, I'd heard the thumb thing mentioned a few...dozen times in the course of my brief research. Lots of horror stories and Frankesteined thumbs. You're right though, it appears have the most inscrutable semi-auto action I've seen, and I'd need some stick time to get things down pat. Ugly, too.

As you alluded to, the same could be said of the Garand, though. I'm honestly more concerned with the "fun" offered by the rifle than the "cool factor" or pure novelty.

"Fun" for me is a mix of;
-Good handling/feel (i.e. no annoying ergo issues, but I can't always handle guns ahead of time :banghead
-Sufficiently accurate (relative to similar class guns)
-Inexpensive/available ammo
-Low or fair price for what I'm getting (condition, quality, consistency, availability)
-Interesting, unique, or innovative mechanical design (yeah, I'm an engineer...)
-Doesn't cover the same bases as another rifle I own (until I cover all the bases, that is)

If the FN49's would come down in price a little (or the Hakims's go up before I get off my rear) my decision would be easier

TCB

 

[Shadow 7D]

Well consider somemore in the Hakim's family
the Rashid (or Rasheed) a carbine in x39
or the Ljungman the 6.5 Mauser, Swedish predecessor, BTW the Swedes build the first couple orders of Hakims I do believe.

Oh and the Vz. 52, was rechambered into .39 when the soviets forced the Warsaw pack to adopt a common caliber, if you can find a 52/57 no need to learn to reload. you can also purchase glue in chamber adapters. But they tend to be rare as the Czechs adopted the Vz. 58 in response.

Oh, and you forgot the French Mas 49
Personally I'd like to find a Colombian FN 49 in 30.06 or one in 7mm

 

[Vaarok]

MAS-49/56 is another. Fairly common, superb weapons with very low popularity due to herp-derp French-bashing. Which is fortunate, because it keeps prices down on an otherwise superb rifle.

My opinions of the two alternates of the SVT - the Hakim and FN-49, are that the Hakim is a sort of dead-end design that's fun and loud but not particularly great, and the FN is painful to handle considering the hamstrung features like a fixed box mag that differentiate it from the FAL.

The Vz-52, however, is a superb rifle in all regards if you can find a decent one that's also in 39. Just don't expect to.

 

[451 Detonics]

The Rasheed is a mini Hakim action...neat guns but the prices have skyrocketed. I love my Hakim...bought it when like new guns where selling for 80 bucks. I have shot cases of ammo through mine and it has always worked.

Currently is is sporting urban Hawaii camo and a homemade scope mount...

 

[zoom6zoom]

Some nice choices here. Almost any SVT under a grand can be considered a deal these days.
I've got most of the alternatives listed; SVT-40, Hakim, Rashid, vz-52 and 58... they are all fun.

 

[56hawk]

Since I think I have just about all the rifles you are thinking about I figured I'd give my thoughts.

My favorite is the G43. Might be out of your price range, but hard to beat in cool points. Also you can find 8mm ammo just about anywhere which is nice.

SVT-40 comes in second. One of the more common rifles, but still very cool.

FN-49s are great. Chambered in quite a few different calibers. Mine is an Argentine Navy model in 308. Also the only FN-49 model with detachable magazines.

Hakim is kind of a scary rifle until you get used to it. Super loud and draws a lot of attention at the range.

Rasheed is basically a baby Hakim. Being in 7.62x39 is really a bonus though.

MAS 49/56 is probably my least favorite. Ammo is hard to find, and being French isn't very cool. Sorry if I'm offending any French people here.

VZ 52 is a very cool design, especially with it's side folding bayonet. The problem is that 7.62x45 ammo is almost impossible to find. I should chronograph some of the ammo I have because it feels a lot hotter than 7.62x39.

 

[mookiie]

56Hawk - nice collection!

 

[m1dbob1944]

Great thread and awesome posts by everyone. I love my Fn 49 and AG 42B. Reload for them for quality control on the ammo. With the Ljungman, I was shooting old ball ammo dated 1946. Suffered a case-head separation and broke the extractor.
One of these days, will add a SVT-40 to the collection.

 

[Jeremy2171]

With the Ljungman, I was shooting old ball ammo dated 1946. Suffered a case-head separation and broke the extractor.

AG42's need lubricated ammo if you are using milsurp 6.5x55....otherwise with handloads you can use the correct powder to prevent ripping the case head off while the pressure is too high.

 

[m1dbob1944]

Thanks

Jeremy,
That makes a lot of sense and thank you for the tip.