Optic or no optic on your defense handgun?

[Ridgerunner665]

No

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

No bias just faster with a brilliant front post or dot iron sight. I use optics on my target range firearms and AR / derivatives.

 

[tdbmd]

Do use an optic on or defense handgun? I was thinking of trying one and see if I would like it or not. Suggestions on a optic for a semi auto handgun?


I tried to do a search, but couldn't find the Handguns: Autoloaders section.

Just started to move to an optic. Now have one on my Hellcat, still getting used to it.

 

[Zerodefect]

No bias just faster with a brilliant front post or dot iron sight. I use optics on my target range firearms and AR / derivatives.

Same. But my carbine optics are on a quick release.

Can't ditch a pistol optic. So won't put one on my ccw.

 

[westernrover]

I’m still undecided on the topic. I do see (pun intended) where they have their place, but each person‘s carry circumstances are different and should be studied critically.

97% of the time I carry a Colt Agent in my pocket because it’s the best tool for my daily lifestyle. An optic isn’t going to work for me. Furthermore, I tend to think that an encounter for me will most likely be at “bad breath” distance, so an optic would not be appropriate.

If I carried a pistol I would certainly take a hard look at an optic to see if it would work for me.

Optics work fine on revolvers. I think they work even better than on autos because they're fixed to the frame/barrel. No, they won't simply mount to an Agent, but they do work great on snub-nosed revolvers because they make the short sight radius irrelevant. I can't think of a better improvement for a snub's performance than an optic. While I'm sure a gunsmith can mount one on a fixed sight frame, there are simple bolt-on options available for guns with bolt-on or dovetail-mount adjustable sights. Optics also work great for pocket carry.

 

[westernrover]

Same. But my carbine optics are on a quick release.

Can't ditch a pistol optic. So won't put one on my ccw.

Why would you want to have it and ditch it?

 

[trackskippy]

Same. But my carbine optics are on a quick release.

Can't ditch a pistol optic. So won't put one on my ccw.

Just like the rifle red dots, no need to ditch it, just shoot through it using the irons.

My rifle optics are QR too, but it's quicker just to flip up the BUIS than it would be to ditch the dot.

 

[Zerodefect]

Why would you want to have it and ditch it?

Rain, snow, fog, grease, sweat, sun glare.

Just like the rifle red dots, no need to ditch it, just shoot through it using the irons.

My rifle optics are QR too, but it's quicker just to flip up the BUIS than it would be to ditch the dot.

My buis is nearly, always up.

Sorry, but pistol optics still aren't ready for prime time.

 

[trackskippy]

Optics work fine on revolvers. I think they work even better than on autos because they're fixed to the frame/barrel. No, they won't simply mount to an Agent, but they do work great on snub-nosed revolvers because they make the short sight radius irrelevant. I can't think of a better improvement for a snub's performance than an optic. While I'm sure a gunsmith can mount one on a fixed sight frame, there are simple bolt-on options available for guns with bolt-on or dovetail-mount adjustable sights. Optics also work great for pocket carry.

While not a revolver here, I've got a Glock 26 MOS incoming with one of the new Holosun SCS-MOM red dots, that's supposed to drop into the Glock slide cut without using a plate, which gets it a little lower on the gun.

Ive been fighting doing this as some guns you just want/need to be smaller. Still, it was bugging me, and Brownells recently had a sale on 26 RMR cut slides for a little over $100, so I grabbed one. Had bad luck with a cheap 17 slide from somewhere else early on trying to see how I wanted to go with all this. Had to send that back, but still had the red dot I had on it. Popped it on the 26 slide and sucked in again!

Takes a bit of handiness out of it, but at the same time, its a different gun and in positive ways. It still another option for a belt gun, but its not going to probably work in the Smart Carry or ankle holster I usually use with the 26.

If technology continues to get these things smaller and more viable for even smaller guns, that could/would be a good thing I think, as your hit probabilities will likely go up a good bit, especially at the mid to longer distances not considered their forte.

 

[trackskippy]

Rain, snow, fog, grease, sweat, sun glare.

My buis is nearly, always up.

Sorry, but pistol optics still aren't ready for prime time.

You need to get off of TMC and pop prime time on and have a look around.

 

[CDW4ME]

If someone replies "No" or "Iron sights are fine" without additional elaboration what could be omitted is they usually pocket carry.

A possible options to make replies more telling:
Do you have a optic on your carry gun?
-No, I pocket carry.
-No, I carry on belt but don't own a handgun with a dot, or that is dot ready.
-No, I tried a dot but prefer iron sights. <--This is the most curious No reply IMO.
-Yes, I carry a handgun with a dot.

I have carry handguns with a dot and a dot has some advantages; that said, I've been carrying fixed sights more than the dot lately.

 

[jmr40]

I have a couple of pistols with them. I shoot them at the range, but I'm not ready to use them as my primary defensive pistols. YET. As I get in more time with them, learn to use them and get more confident in them that may change one day.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

I was in the "no" camp as it was something other to go wrong and I didn't want to put in the reps, but I'm coming around. Mostly because I finally admitted I have middle-aged eyes and I can't see as well as I used to.

So with irons I'm better than everyone I shoot with at 7-10 yards, but I can't always see the front sight clearly. And The "watch your target, decide to shoot, refocus on front sight, presssssss" process isn't working as accurately or as quickly as it used to.

A few years back I bought a Shield 2.0 with a cheap red dot on it and hated it. Swapped that for a Holosun and still didn't like it - found I was faster with irons. Now with 1911s and 2011s with red dots I'm faster and more accurate with the red dot. I'm starting to pick it up consistently on the presentation as well. When I go back to that Shield I hated, it turns out I really like it.

So eventually some of us move to bifocals, and start to admit and we're no longer young, and finally adjust to these new tools that compensate for our infirmities...

In practice: it's one more thing to check when I put on the gun in the morning, and other than that it's no big deal. I just shoot better than I can without it. And I'll need to swap batteries sometimes, and clean the glass every week or so (I hate pollen season.)

 

[trackskippy]

At this point, I need some eye correction with my irons if I want to actually get a clean sight picture. I wear "top focal" shooting/safety glasses as sunglasses to deal with it.

I also use night sights on any gun I might carry, and most anything I can get them on anyway.

The red dot eliminates the need for both, as I can see the dot clearly with no correction, its a lot easier and faster to pick up, requires no alignment, and its a true, 24/7 sight that works in all lighting.

 

[Lo-Profile]

I have guns with them.
My EDC and HD guns don't have them.

 

[westernrover]

I would trust my red dot to stay on more than I would trust my eyeglasses to stay on. I've suffered violence in accidents (not crime) and sun glasses and eye glasses do not stay on. Even in relatively mild falls, they do not stay on. I've considered wearing a leash, but haven't found them to be satisfactory. Fortunately, I have 20/20 without glasses, but I need +2 for near field (presbyopia). Bifocals or progressives do it, but I hate them and just use reading glasses. The red dot is easier to use than a front sight, but I can still use a front sight even if it is blurry.

I recently shot my Vaquero at 25 yards and my group was 3 or 4 inches. When I shot my red dot, the group was the same size at 50 yards. In either case, I'm not concerned with my ability to use the sights. There are a lot of other things more concerning.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

A clearer "no" than my previous one...

I had a Leupold Deltapoint Pro on a Glock 40 MOS 10mm a couple years back, spent a good deal of time and money getting it set up and used to it... it was good for long range stuff at the range, I could hit 12x12 inch steel at 150 yards reliably with it (wouldn't dream of hunting at that range, just practicing)... everything went fine until the buck I was after came out about 9am (near 140 class 8 point) , the sun was just clearing the ridge and at my 1030 to 11 'o'clock... the glare through the optic obscured ALL view through the optic... there he was, 60 yards away... and I couldn't see a thing through that optic but glare.

Perfect storm... yeah, maybe... but it happened, and it told me everything I need to know about single lens optics on handguns... I'll stick with irons.

Then there is batteries... don't want to be dependent on batteries in anything, even my AR has a plain ole 1.5-5x scope on it.

I'm 51 years old, been shooting all my life, long range rifle, handguns, trap, skeet, etc... I'd have to unlearn a lot to get where I'd want to be for defensive shooting and I'm simply not interested in doing so... it ain't broke, so I ain't going to fix it.

 

[tarosean]

I have them on my HD guns, but not CCW

 

[rhino465]

I'm a recent convert, but my brother has been using slide mounted Trijicon RMRs since before most people knew it was even possible to mount a red dot in the slide. I delayed trying until I was satisfied that the technology had matured sufficiently to expect an optic like a Holosun to continue functioning after a a few thousand rounds. I watched a lot of rounds go downrange in USPSA from the Carry Optics shooters and haven't seen many problems in the last year or two. Most problems seem to arise due to improper mounting (failing to properly torque the screws, failing to apply a little blue LocTite) and screws either backing out or shearing. I haven't seen a lot of electronics failures.

After I felt the tech was acceptable based on observation, I waited until I could acquire a used copy of my carry/match guns, but either with the slide milled for a red dot or with one already installed. Once I did that, I used it in a several USPSA matches in Limited Optics division, a defensive pistol class, and a few thousand rounds of practice and drills. My benchmark for carrying it was when I was able to draw/present and the dot was visible when I reached extension and no "hunting for the dot" was necessary. I've passed that hurdle. I have learned from matches and practice that I occasionally have trouble seeing the dot when I have to shoot from an awkward position and I haven't yet learned to adapt my index to those situations, but it's getting better.

I'm to the point where my speed (which was never that impressive) is about the same with irons for 15 yards and in, but a little faster at 20-25 yards and out. I think it's because I am more confident about where the shot is going with the dot vs. aligning the irons and I don't take as much time between sight picture achieved to deciding to press the trigger. I'm also learning to track the dot and call my shots on Bill Drills and similar practice better than I could with irons, which was expected. Overall, the adjustment to the dot wasn't difficult or mysterious (you just have to present the gun with the slide horizontal instead of with the muzzle elevated as most iron sights shooters do, then rock the rear upward at fill extension) and then practice until it's your normal index.

Concerns over batteries and electronics failures are certainly valid, but I am satisfied that the tech is good enough "for realz" now. And, if the optic fails, I still have iron sights as well as years of learning to use alternate visual cues for sighted fire such as the appearance of the back of the gun when the sights are aligned with the target. The risks both real and perceived with red dots are outweighed by the performance enhancing benefits in my opinion. And this is coming from a guy who still uses a flip phone and thinks the Buck 110 is the ultimate folding knife.

 

[JDeere]

I have a dot on my carry weapon if it goes south no problem using sight to get hits. Train with it and you will learn to use it both ways. Even this old man has taken a liking to them. I shoot both with and without a couple of times a week. Better groups with a dot so I'm in...

 

[Anchorite]

Optics work fine on revolvers. I think they work even better than on autos because they're fixed to the frame/barrel. No, they won't simply mount to an Agent, but they do work great on snub-nosed revolvers because they make the short sight radius irrelevant. I can't think of a better improvement for a snub's performance than an optic. While I'm sure a gunsmith can mount one on a fixed sight frame, there are simple bolt-on options available for guns with bolt-on or dovetail-mount adjustable sights. Optics also work great for pocket carry.

Yes, optics do work for revolvers, but since I’m not handgun hunting but rather carrying concealed on a revolver that will go into a pocket, it’s already bulkier than a comparable pistol. I’m not sure I can agree how optics also work great for pocket carry, unless you’re talking about a pistol and not a revolver?

Were I carrying a pistol OWB, then sure, I can envision the utility of an optic.

 

[wanderinwalker]

I've got a Trijicon RMR with 9moa green dot. 9moa seems huge when you think about it, but it's not meant for Bullseye shooting. It's fast and I really like it for speed games. Lately I've been using some of the Holosun that have multiple reticle options built in. Large circle small dot, small circle small dot, small dot, bigger dot.

With my astigmatism, I use the 8moa circle/2moa dot combination and adjust brightness as low as possible. Without correction it's just a 8moa dot.

No doubt a 9-MOA dot sounds massive to somebody who considers himself more of a rifleman than a pistolero. My research has been pointing me the way you're describing though; a big 5-6 MOA dot for the handgun, prioritizing closer-in speed over longer distance slow-fire precision. I did look through an RMRcc with the 6 or 6.5 MOA dot a few weeks ago and my first thought was "wow, that's a HUGE dot". Maybe it's worth another look with a different mindset. The part I'm having trouble visualizing is how does the large dot relate to the different hit zones of an IDPA target at 25 yards? I know my 2-MOA MRO is supposed to subtend 1" at 50-yards, but in practice to my eyes it looks to fill a 3" round (6 MOA) bullseye with a little ring of target around the edge, like a large rim with a low-profile tire.

And I know that inside 50-feet or so, no pistol dot will subtend enough target to matter unless I'm trying to hit house flies.

 

[Buzznrose]

Yes for me. Most guns I’d carry have a dot. I have a G43X I had milled in 2018 (I think…pre COVID for sure) that has the same Swamp Fox Sentinel sight and is on second or third battery (I swap batteries every few years when I think of it).

Probably have 5K through that gun with the dot. Never had an issue.

I’ve bought a dozen Swamp Fox dots. I think they are every bit as good as most other brands except Trijicon and Aimpoint. I had a Leupold on an Sig P320. Didn’t like the optic nor the pistol so they have a new home.

I’ve presently got dots on 7 handguns…some were optics ready, three were milled. I definitely prefer milled.

I’ve had issues with a couple dots…sent them back and they were replaced quickly.

I’ve learned the workarounds of glare…no different than a rifle scope at the wrong angle and bright sun.

At 10 yards, I have a bit of an accuracy gain…past 20, they make me a way better shooter than iron sights and 60+ year eyes.

YMMV

 

[kidneyboy]

I have both and can go either way.

No doubt a 9-MOA dot sounds massive to somebody who considers himself more of a rifleman than a pistolero. My research has been pointing me the way you're describing though; a big 5-6 MOA dot for the handgun, prioritizing closer-in speed over longer distance slow-fire precision. I did look through an RMRcc with the 6 or 6.5 MOA dot a few weeks ago and my first thought was "wow, that's a HUGE dot". Maybe it's worth another look with a different mindset. The part I'm having trouble visualizing is how does the large dot relate to the different hit zones of an IDPA target at 25 yards? I know my 2-MOA MRO is supposed to subtend 1" at 50-yards, but in practice to my eyes it looks to fill a 3" round (6 MOA) bullseye with a little ring of target around the edge, like a large rim with a low-profile tire.

And I know that inside 50-feet or so, no pistol dot will subtend enough target to matter unless I'm trying to hit house flies.

Dot size comparison




As an aside regarding astigmatism - if you stay target focused all the astigmatism does is increase your dot size.

 

[kidneyboy]

Do use an optic on or defense handgun?

Yes and no. One of my SD carry guns has an optic, one doesn't. At point and shoot distances (inside 10 yards) it doesn't matter to me but I shoot/practice a lot.
The home defense gun has a light/laser combo and a red dot.