Optic or no optic on your defense handgun?

A 3 MOA dot is a lot smaller MOA than an iron sight, but does that matter at typical handgun distances? Not much if any.

The beauty of a red dot for me is I can focus on the threat, not the front sight. No blurry targets.
 
No thank you. I carry handguns concealed. This means I like a smaller handgun (I have a S&W shield 9). Adding a optic to my gun that I want to conceal makes it bigger and more difficult to conceal. The same can be said of a mounted white light, but I would mount a light on my carry piece way before a red dot, because I think a light is more useful (I carry a small rechargeable LED light ). Most (I know, most doesn't equal all) of these urban attack scenarios tend to happen at such short distances that the sights on a pistol are irrelevant. For the rest, good iron sights with tritium inserts are what I prefer to use. Additionally, the red dots are electronic, so there is at least some potential for the sight to fail in some way. Finally, there is a cost analysis where all of these other factors are weighed against the monetary cost of the RDS. Once all of this data was assembled and scrutinized, the solution for me was to opt out of using an optic on handguns.
 
part I'm having trouble visualizing is how does the large dot relate to the different hit zones of an IDPA target at 25 yards
Not sure, but the diagram posted definitely helps. The 9moa dot at 25 yard steel plates should cover roughly 2.25", but the 4" plate is really hard to see. Something like 2.25" of actual dot surrounded by .75" of fuzzies due to astigmatism. I mostly just use it for 25' bowling pins which is more forgiving.
 
No optics for my defense guns. Just something that could get damaged or bumped, and when I need a defense gun I want it all working.
 
I'm a grumpy old codger in general, and have been fine with irons for decades. (I actually was an early adopter of red dots, back in the eighties, when it became apparent that I could no longer win my particular gun game without one. I never would have carried the big old tube concealed, though.) I actually think most of the "pros" and most of the "cons" for today's dot sights are without merit. For example, I don't really see that they are unreliable, or that they are too big for carry, or that they are significantly faster or more accurate.

For my money, there are a few niches they really fill. One is aging eyes: if the front blade is becoming blurry, then a dot might be your savior. Another is speed and accuracy for someone not willing to learn irons. It does take significant effort to learn irons well. I think every handgunner should put in that effort, but admit that today's young and/or new concealed carrier may not really be into shooting as a hobby. For them, the much-easier-to-learn dot might be a good plan. (I remain convinced that the more experience a fellow has with irons, the less speed/accuracy benefit is produced with a dot. By the time someone is shooting at Master level with irons, any speed/accuracy benefit with a dot is measured in such small increments as to be irrelevant in a self-defense scenario - with the following exception.)

My particular niche is long-distance accuracy with a short sight radius. With the rise of rifle-equipped fruitcakes shooting up the public square, I decided I wanted to be better prepared for that "70 yards across the food court" kind of shot. But the relatively large notch and blade found on most defensive guns, along with the short sight radius typical of something concealable, makes those shots harder than they need to be. A dot sight can be a very good answer to that dilemma, and that's why I put such a gun together.
 
I am like many here that trained on iron sights for quite a while before being exposed to a red dot on a rifle. I believe it is a big improvement over iron sights. Faster in both sight acquisition for most people and training for new shooters. I’ve seen it in the Marines and at my current job.

I waited a while before buying a red dot pistol, a Sig P320RX compact. I liked it but wanted my usual carry gun to have a red dot, a M&P 40 Compact 1.0 that I had the slide milled for a RMR. I am very pleased with it. It is the same for me as with the rifle, it speeds up acquisition and I can focus on the target instead of the front sight.

I bought the RMR because I wanted a reliable, mature design. The only downside is that the sight must be removed for a battery change.

There is a good white paper that Sage Dynamics did on pistol red dots. He found that Duracells handled the stress of being in a slide-minted optic better than other brands, and the RMR was very dependable.
 
Pocket carry 380: No

Micro-9 carry: No

3.6” 9mm carry: Enclosed Green circle/dot + weapons light/red laser + option for hand held tactical light (preferred). Light on my M&P makes holstering and shooting a better experience.

House Guns 4.0”-5.0” 9mm: Enclosed Green circle/dot and weapons light/ red laser. Hand held tactical light stored with each.
 
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i find that optics on a handgun used for my protection are a distraction. as a retiree and civilian my ccw is the ultimate tool to get me away from danger. if i ever must shoot, my ccw must come out quickly, and be discharged close and fast, because i am boxed in and unable to put distance between the predator and me. optics deter from my practiced employment. ymmv.
 
Many people have discovered that once they learn how to correctly use an optical dot sight on their pistol that their skill and quickness with iron sights improves.

The dot requires a shooter to exercise more consistency in one's shooting form to quickly see and use the dot. Once the improved consistency is developed it carries over to an improved skill with using iron sights.
 
Im seeing just that.

My iron sight presentation is shifting more towards how I present the gun when I use the dot or point shoot, and where in the past my focus was on picking up the front sight as the gun was coming up, and alignment came with the lock into presentation, Im now seeing more or less aligned sights as one as the gun comes up.
 

Optic or no optic on your defense handgun?​


No I have no optics on any defensive handgun. I carry concealed and that can get difficult when adding optics to any gun.

Ron
 
I carry concealed too, and havent had any problems, optic or no optic. Same exact type gun, and same holster, with either. No difference at all in carrying them.

Not saying that's the case with everything, but with guns carried in a typical belt type holster, its a non issue.
 
I carry concealed too, and havent had any problems, optic or no optic. Same exact type gun, and same holster, with either. No difference at all in carrying them.

Not saying that's the case with everything, but with guns carried in a typical belt type holster, its a non issue.
What gun?
 
No, I don't want to have to retrain myself on something new. All of my handguns have a variation of a red fiber optic front sight or a night sight front sight. I can use any of them and am looking for the same thing...the same as my work pistol.

If I switch over to an optic, I've first got to go through the learning process to become proficient and then continue to practice with both unless I convert ALL of my handguns to optics (except the one at work because it's not "my" handgun to modify). That's going to be a massive capitol investment when I could just use that money for ammo and get faster/more proficient with the sights I already have.

Use what you're proficient with and train consistently.
 
No, I don't want to have to retrain myself on something new. All of my handguns have a variation of a red fiber optic front sight or a night sight front sight. I can use any of them and am looking for the same thing...the same as my work pistol.

If I switch over to an optic, I've first got to go through the learning process to become proficient and then continue to practice with both unless I convert ALL of my handguns to optics (except the one at work because it's not "my" handgun to modify). That's going to be a massive capitol investment when I could just use that money for ammo and get faster/more proficient with the sights I already have.

Use what you're proficient with and train consistently.

Im finding that the more I use the optics the faster and easier the irons are, and thats probably more to the constant fooling around with the red dots and doing endless repetitions/presentations in a way that brings the dot right up every time.

Not that they are "added" repetitions either really, Im just doing what I normally do anyway, but lately most all of it has been with the guns with the red dots on them. Im still doing a couple of other different guns every day as well and they don't have dots on them.

What I am seeing with the irons though is, Im not tracking the front sight on its own as much as Im getting pretty much complete alignment with each presentation. So my brain seems to be making a slight modification of how things go on its own.
 
This is an interesting thread. Particularly the comments saying that practicing with an optic teaches one to align iron sights quicker. I have never owned or used an optic on a handgun. I did get to shoot a fellows competition gun that had an optic on it. I expressed an interest in handgun optics & he told me the before he competed with that pistol he had to spend time practicing picking up the dot. He said that one should either go all guns with optics or all guns with irons & not try to go back & forth. It is interesting to read different opinions. One of these days I'm going to have to get one to work with to figure out whether I like it or not.
 
Thats really the only way to actually know whats what. And like it took time to learn to shoot well with irons, it takes time to do the same with other things, No matter what, you have to put in the time and work to figure things out.
 
You folks are much swifter than I am.
I use a S&W 19 for ultimate self defense. Why am I slower? Adrenalin kicks in, tunnel vision takes over. All I can remember is PULL THE TRIGGER.
Oh yea, I have a Glock w/competition sights ready too. ;)
Stay safe,
Max
 
Im finding that the more I use the optics the faster and easier the irons are, and thats probably more to the constant fooling around with the red dots and doing endless repetitions/presentations in a way that brings the dot right up every time.

Not that they are "added" repetitions either really, Im just doing what I normally do anyway, but lately most all of it has been with the guns with the red dots on them. Im still doing a couple of other different guns every day as well and they don't have dots on them.

What I am seeing with the irons though is, Im not tracking the front sight on its own as much as Im getting pretty much complete alignment with each presentation. So my brain seems to be making a slight modification of how things go on its own.
I'm glad it works for you. I have a Burris Fastfire II or III (can't remember) on a Ruger Mark III 22/45. I'm VERY familiar with the ergonomics on a 1911 pistol as I use a 2011 for 3-gun competition, so I'm not unfamiliar with the grip angle, safety and everything else on a 1911. When I present the Mark III to shoot, I am always having to tilt and/or rotate the gun to find the dot in the window. I also understand it may not be the best example of a red dot, but I've also shot other's handguns with red dots and I always end up having to move the gun to find the dot. I don't like that. It's a HUGE delay and I'm not interested in having to learn a new system. I tried a red dot on a .22 lr to learn it, but it has shown me that it will take a lot more repetitions than I am willing to do to learn a new system.

My experience does not mirror your experience.
 
Anything new you do will take some time, doesn't matter what it is.

You shouldn't have to move the gun around looking for the dot, and you shouldn't wait to look for the dot until the gun is at full extension. With your focus on the target, you want to bring ithe gun straight up, pick up the dot as it comes up in the periphery in front of your face and push out.

Took me about a month of daily presentations from anyway I could think to do it, and shooting a couple of times a week, before I was comfortable enough to carry the gun. Once you get over that initial "find the dot" hump, things go quicker and easier. There is a bit of a learning curve, but it's only as difficult as you want to make it.

I switch back and forth between a couple of different Glock models and a SIG P320 with dots, and the difference in grip angle you're always told is, or will be an issue between the different guns, isn't. Dot or irons, if you're familiar with the different guns and handle and shoot them regularly, it's not a problem either way and they all point naturally.
 
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