Orlando Sentinel: 'Guns are everywhere,' Orlando police chief says

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Flame Red

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More Orlando Slantenal propaganda bull crap: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-armed1208oct12,0,4724483.story

The husband of the Orlando Chief (Val's husband) is also running for Orange County Sheriff. Let's make sure that we vote appropriately!

Many of America's best-armed criminals call Orlando and the rest of Florida home.

AK-47s, other military-style assault weapons and expensive handguns have become so common that cops across the state routinely encounter suspects equipped for urban warfare, complete with 75-shot magazines and bulletproof vests.

In Orange County alone, the number of crime guns seized last year -- 3,333 -- was only 500 weapons fewer than the total seized in all five boroughs of New York City, which has eight times the population.

Another indicator is the sound of gunfire. Orlando police responded last year to 477 calls about shots fired. Orange County deputy sheriffs handled 10 times that amount -- 4,883 "discharge weapon" reports. In just those two jurisdictions, that adds up to more than 14 shootings a day.

The killers of two men slain in Pine Hills last week fired 58 rounds from two AK-47s during a furious gunbattle, detectives said. Investigators still are tracking a shotgun, a revolver and a stolen pistol found at the scene.

Such events, along with guns seized at a rate of nearly 10 a day, suggest a community at war with itself.

"Guns are everywhere," Orlando police Chief Val Demings said. "We are looking for guns in places where we never looked before. . . .

"When we're making drug arrests, nine times out of 10 there's going to be a gun nearby in the bushes, around the corner or in the house."

In March, the Orlando Sentinel began to collect public records on every firearm seized by Florida's largest police agencies, spurred by a surge in murder and gunfire locally since the end of the federal assault-weapons ban in 2004. The idea was to see whether what is happening in Orlando and Orange County was part of a larger trend.

The reports disclosed that the police agencies surveyed had removed nearly 60,000 guns from the streets during the past five years -- an arsenal better suited for combat in Afghanistan than the streets of Fort Lauderdale, Miami or Ocoee.

The actual number was much higher because several departments kept only partial records from 2003 through 2007.


9 mm pistol dominates

However you count it, Florida is synonymous with firepower.

Compare one year's take in "The City Beautiful" to those in much larger U.S. cities.

In Orlando (population 200,000), police seized 1,160 firearms last year. Police in Las Vegas (population 1.5 million) seized 601. Police in San Francisco (population 744,000) seized 1,091.

Florida law makes it easy for any adult without a criminal record to buy a gun. Yet many legally purchased guns end up being used by criminals. The state routinely turns up in law-enforcement surveys as one of the top three sources of firearms that turn up in crimes elsewhere.

All the 60,000 guns tracked by the Sentinel involved criminal charges or had been abandoned at crime scenes. None of the guns came from police buyback programs in which citizens trade firearms for sneakers or store credits. Gun busts occasionally turned up machine guns and other illegal oddities, but handguns were the most common.

Of them all, the 9 mm pistol reigns as the state's most-popular crime weapon: 10,297 seized from 2003-07.

Firing up to 32 bullets without reloading, it's the same handgun that persuaded U.S. law enforcement in the 1980s to abandon six-shooters forever to keep from being outgunned by criminals.

As a sign of their popularity, confiscations of 9 mm pistols have more than doubled in Orlando, Jacksonville and Hillsborough County in recent years.



They turn up everywhere, even in tourist bags.

Last year at Universal Studios in Orlando, security guards found a 9 mm pistol, two 30-shot magazines, two 16-shot magazines and 69 bullets in a patron's backpack outside the City Walk nightclub complex.

The patron, an electrician from South Florida, didn't feel comfortable walking unarmed in the crowd of thousands. His choice cost him two days in the county jail, but a plea bargain let him go home without a criminal record for carrying a concealed weapon.

His gun was a $500 Czech import. The most popular seized 9 mms in Florida are made by the venerable U.S. company Smith & Wesson, followed by Glock, both in the $450 to $600 range. Only in Jacksonville was Hi-Point, an economy brand selling for $200 or less, confiscated more often than much-higher-priced competitors.


'So many guns'

Expensive brands also dominated the rising numbers of confiscated .40-caliber and .45-caliber semiautomatic pistols.

"Criminals are equal-opportunity types who think the same as consumers: You get what you pay for. They're going to go for the weapon that's most proficient and concealable," said Orange sheriff's Cpl. John Park, a member of the Tactical Anti-Crime Unit that targets high-crime areas. "We're pulling so many guns off the street."

Seizures of military-style weapons have skyrocketed since the end of the 10-year ban on assault weapons, which prohibited or severely restricted sales of the most deadly firearms on the market, along with magazines holding more than 10 bullets.

Those weapons included AK-47s and many others with two or more military-style features.

In Orlando, officers seized seven AK-47s and similarly high-powered AR-15s in 2003. Orange County deputies seized eight that year. Four years later, those numbers jumped more than 400 percent -- 31 in Orlando, 48 in the county. Total for the five years: 321.


Deadliest on the street

Cops consider assault weapons the deadliest firearms on the street. Their high-velocity bullets hit with three to four times the energy of a 9 mm pistol -- enough power to tear apart brick walls and human bodies.

The five-year total includes AK-47s, AR-15s and Tec-9 machine pistols but does not include 72 SKS carbines seized by the two agencies. Those weapons fire the same bullet as the AK-47 but were not included in the federal ban.

On New Year's Eve in 2005, a bullet fired from an SKS killed an Orlando man more than a mile away.

"What is the need?" asked Orange-Osceola's Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Jan Garavaglia, who autopsies the victims. "If you can shoot through the wall of a house, it's not for self-protection. . . . Why anybody has these types of rifles is probably not to do good."

Drug dealing was the most common crime connected to assault weapons in Orange County.

The confiscated weapons were linked to 148 drug-related cases; 120 home invasions, burglaries and acts of violence; and 39 domestic-violence injunctions, according to court records in each case.

Several suspects arrested in those cases bought AK-47s within days of turning 18.

One riddled a girlfriend's car for jilting him. Another robbed a gas station, leaving behind his home address on a receipt for the just-purchased assault weapon. A third, who went shooting near his home, simply described himself as angry.


'It's just crazy'



"When it happens to you, it's amazing," said William Bolden, recalling how a group of young men in three vehicles stopped in his Pine Hills neighborhood this summer and fired at least 66 shots. "I started running. That's when I got hit."

It was July 7 -- the day William and his twin brother, Willie, were celebrating their 52nd birthdays. Each twin was wounded: William in his right foot; Willie in his right ear.

Crime-scene technicians recovered:

*A dozen .22-caliber shell casings.

One of the suspects turned out to be 17. The oldest was 25.

"It's just crazy," William Bolden said. "I don't understand these young people."

Yet rage and recklessness are not age-restricted.

In 2004, a 70-year-old Winter Park homeowner with a .223-caliber carbine was arrested and convicted for threatening to shoot a tree surgeon for trimming limbs that shaded his yard.

Looking over the data, Orange County Sheriff Kevin Beary said that Florida has become much more dangerous -- for residents and police officers -- since the end of the weapons ban.

"There should be a huge concern not just here locally but across the nation about the huge increases in the numbers of assault weapons and high-power semiautomatic pistols that our deputies and police officers are coming across," he said. "This shows that without the ban, the criminal element has definitely taken advantage of the market."
 
Two words: "dope", "stupidity"....

Apply them to whichever party(ies) deserve them in your mind.

RMD
 
"On New Year's Eve in 2005, a bullet fired from an SKS killed an Orlando man more than a mile away."

This has to be a fabrication. SKS? 7.62x39mm? >1760 yards? I didn't know they made the SKS in .338 Lapua Magnum now.
 
A known left leaning rag and office seeking (rather than work for a living) politicians ... what more can you expect.

With all of the "warfare" ... would you be interested in unmanipulated statistics about how many times legally owned guns were used to prevent/stop a crime in the same time period.

Figures don't lie but people that do sure spend a lot of time figuring. :cuss:
 
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This is why statistics, and raw numbers, are regarded so suspiciously in peer-reviewed papers. They can be twisted to exemplify anything.

An SKS round is easily deadly at one mile. Even the lowly .22 long rifle carries a warning of dangerous to 1 1/3 mile. You can't AIM and hit at one mile, but a bullet addressed to "whom it may concern" will be deadly.

Drug smuggling and dealing is becoming a really violent market. As new players attempt to invade older groups turf, they are met with violence. Many of these players are criminals from South America and Asia, where military weapons, and training, have long been necessary.

It seems pretty stupid to compare the seizures of a city in Florida to NYC, which isn't a drug trans-shipment point, and which has had a century of gun control. Differing laws in both areas will also have to be taken into consideration, as well.

Georgia has easily as liberal a possession requirement as Florida. Yet, with the exception of the cess-pool of Atlanta, crime rates, and gun crime, are markedly less. Why weren't other cities in the same area added into the consideration. How about we add in D.C. and Baltimore? Or Detroit and Oaklands? Or Los Angeles?:neener:
 
Makes perfect sense to me. Everyone knows a bullet from an AK is much more deadly than a bullet from a 30-06...the bayonette lug and flash suppressor adds to the killing power...
 
I read this article sunday (I live in Orlando) and about blew my breakfast over the table. What a piece of carp this was. They only thing that rang partially true are the reports of gunfire - I was in the nice part of WinterPark (east of downtown0 treadny/yuppie) and my wife buddy and I, walking out of Whole Foods heard several shots. MY buddy (ex- ARMY EOD) and I looked at each other and said- "gunshots" - no doubt crime has increased last few years but this story is about as overblown as they come. :cuss:
 
I live about 40 miles east of Orlando. All of the local news stations we get are out of the area.

Here are some FACTS about what is going on:

1) Virtually all of the shootings are gang related and centered in an area just west of downtown. Pine Hills and Paramore are the two big neighborhoods.

2) The entire city is being taken over by illegal immigrants moving up from South Florida. I suspect a lot of the violence is due to the hispanic gangs trying to get a piece of the black gangs' business.

3) Crime is on a huge upswing NOT because of the ban expiring, but because of the rampant inflation that has taken place in the last few years. There is no affordable housing. Food prices are going way up. Gasoline costs 3x what it did just 4 years ago. These people who grow up in these neighborhoods have no hope to ever better their lives in these economic conditions. They can work all day and not even buy a tank of gas for their car! It is no wonder that these kids turn to selling drugs. Not only is it in their nature due to the way they were raised, but it's an economic necessity as well. Orlando, like much of Florida, is definitely a city of the haves and have-nots.

The bottom line is that the guns are a SYMPTOM of the real problem. And that is an economic system where there is little class mobility, coupled with no immigration laws or enforcement. This leads to a seething, angry lower class that sells drugs, commits crimes, and fights amongst themselves.

My solution to it is just to stay the hell out of Orlando. I hate that place with a passion. Not only is crime bad, nobody speaks English, and you have to pay TOLLS to go anywhere!!! :cuss:
 
This has to be a fabrication. SKS? 7.62x39mm? >1760 yards? I didn't know they made the SKS in .338 Lapua Magnum now.

This is true, it was a celebratory fire death. (new years, I think)

The shooter wasn't shooting straight up, he was shooting at an angle and it was an arked shot that hit the victim at just the wrong spot on the body, and penetrated just enough.

The police actually had the gun because they arrested the guy for celebratory fire, so they could positivelly match it to the bullet that killed the guy, and charge the guy with murder, or maybe it was manslaughter.
 
assault weapons - ~600
handguns - 11,000+

something makes me think that beneath the sensationalism, the same old stats from DoJ from so long ago - that assault weapons don't make or break crime either way - is still quite accurate. Nice try Bloomberg Jr

perhaps Richmond's project: exile should be applied in Florida.
 
Ah Orange County strikes again. I'm in Seminole county tend to have a rather unkind opinion of Orange County. Orange County is a good place to find all kinds of strange folks by me and mine's opinion. A lot of Orange County folk look on us Seminole County folks as 'Rednecks', 'Crackers'(okay a bunch of us own horses, and we have small domesitc farms a plenty out our way largely in Sanford) and backwards but when we Seminoles look at Orange County we see Carpet Bagger fools, brainless politicians, LEOs who do not genuinely hail from the south and tend to have some deficiencies in comparison to our Seminole LEOs, and folks who are just too yuppie and materialistic for their own good, when we're not amazed at the poverty(it's a real blight and drain on Orange County's resources) and welfare mindset that plagues so much of Orange County.

The areas keenly mentioned are....to call a spade a spae.... are largely populated by individuals whom are not middle class God fearing folks of Anglo-Caucasian descent. When I helped my fiancess Grandma move out of Jacksonville I jestfully asked her about what folks did for fun out that way as we drove onto Casselberry, she morosely remarked "shoot at cops" in reference to a one-sided race associated past time as I understand it.

Pinehills, is popularly known as Crimehills, in college when I did my ride along four years back for my Crim. Minor, I was with an officer whose job it was to routinely patrol and deal with matters in Pinehills. He told of an event one time where there had been a running gun battle between individuals in cars that went on for ten miles before the cops got and chased them apart.

Paramour is another lovely area, LOL, it's ten square blocks that have been said by local experts to be responsible for 70% of the violent crime in Orange County.

For those who have lived and worked in Downtown Orlando, where I interned in the Public Defender's office during college can tell you, you can shot not more than fifty feet from the courthose at night. You get a quarter of a mile from the courthouse away in one direction and you are walking into the 'ghetto', if you are going that way at night you are taking your own life in your hands.

Let's not forget OBT (Orange Blossom Trails), an area of AIDS infected prostitutes en masse, trust me I was doing charity work for the resume with an agency that handles AIDS care and such and there was 200 women on the list that had their work address off of OBT.

If Orlando wants to cure the problem as has been said before so many of us Seminoles, redevelop the area so tax rates push out the cheap welfare housing, clamp down on the Section 8 handouts that fund the drug dens that have popped up, and get with the reality that Pine Hills and Paramour (East Orange county) are a blight and go eminient domain. If they were to destroy all the houses and build parks and plant trees Orange County's drain on resources would drop immensely, some have said by sixty percent as far as social workers, public defender use, jails, and hospitals.

Now in turn to that many have said, where will they go <shrugs shoulder> well first they should get jobs (most of them don't unfortunately and those who do work jobs that don't require professional skills or higher education backgrounds), raise their kids instead of letting ten year olds being out at two in morning (it happens) dealing drugs. It's one of those sad commentaires that the illegal alien population in Orlando seeks employement with Olympically greater ferocity (landscapping and construction) than these suppossed American citizens.

When I briefly worked with the ACLU (unfortunately thought, they all can't be bad) and went on walk around out in Paramour to survey a site to setup an overnight setup (place for homeless people to leave their clothing and money, get a shower) I spoke with a couple dozen denizens and found three repetitive statements "Get a Job? Getting my check is my !Job!", "How am I supposed to work, look where I live, I'm not doing no day labor when I can get a check from the Guv (even though the day labor would pay twice as much)", "I have kids to raise, I can't work, these kids father's need to pay their child support, I can't feed my kids off of stamps" (says the nineteen year old mother with four kids ranging in age from six months to five years old, and yes they each have different fathers.

When you compare Seminole County our crime rate isn't even eighth of Orange County, but hey we're rednecks, crackers, folks whom are the range of lower to higher middle class with sprinklings of lower class hardworking folk, granted Orange County lower class folks have been immigrating into our area and bringing troubles with them but our LEOs by and large have been quick to stamp out the troubles.
 
In Orange County alone, the number of crime guns seized last year -- 3,333 -- was only 500 weapons fewer than the total seized in all five boroughs of New York City, which has eight times the population.

Obviously a fabricated number; there are no guns in New York City, as we all know.
 
I like the part about Tec-9 being labeled as an assault weapon 4 to 5 times more powerful than a 9mm pistol...when it is a 9mm pistol.
 
I love the I heard "shots fired" calls they receive that equals 14 "shootings" a day. 99% of these "shots fired" calls are the result of A) fireworks B) construction C) any other number of loud noises that can be mistaken for gunshots

"Why anybody has these types of rifles is probably not to do good." - - - - -> holy crap..........."probably" is not a fact to base anything on
 
"What is the need?" asked Orange-Osceola's Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Jan Garavaglia, who autopsies the victims. "If you can shoot through the wall of a house, it's not for self-protection. . . . Why anybody has these types of rifles is probably not to do good."

Obviously this person doesn't realize that any gun can shoot through the wall of a house. (facepalm)
 
"Another indicator is the sound of gunfire. Orlando police responded last year to 477 calls about shots fired. Orange County deputy sheriffs handled 10 times that amount -- 4,883 "discharge weapon" reports. In just those two jurisdictions, that adds up to more than 14 shootings a day."


Are they suggesting that there's only one phone call per shooting episode?
What if 5 people call on one shooting? That would change the "14 shootings per day" statistic.
 
Well there we have it... We ain't going to Florida Kids !

Stuck here in the sticks up north an lovin it!

-2sigs
 
1) Virtually all of the shootings are gang related and centered in an area just west of downtown. Pine Hills and Paramore are the two big neighborhoods.

We call it Crime Hills. In the 60's when the only major business was Martin, Pine Hills was THE place to live. If you dare drive thru there you will find old mansions back in that now getto.

2) The entire city is being taken over by illegal immigrants moving up from South Florida. I suspect a lot of the violence is due to the hispanic gangs trying to get a piece of the black gangs' business.
+1
3) Crime is on a huge upswing NOT because of the ban expiring, but because of the rampant inflation that has taken place in the last few years. There is no affordable housing. Food prices are going way up. Gasoline costs 3x what it did just 4 years ago. These people who grow up in these neighborhoods have no hope to ever better their lives in these economic conditions. They can work all day and not even buy a tank of gas for their car! It is no wonder that these kids turn to selling drugs. Not only is it in their nature due to the way they were raised, but it's an economic necessity as well. Orlando, like much of Florida, is definitely a city of the haves and have-nots.

What? Obamanation is not going to fix class mobility? Oh right - I forgot, he is going to move the few of us that are holding on to the middle class and lower us into the non-working poor.

Remember the ACORN & Chicago montra, Vote Early and Vote Often! Local elections are important too!
 
Makes perfect sense to me. Everyone knows a bullet from an AK is much more deadly than a bullet from a 30-06...the bayonette lug and flash suppressor adds to the killing power...

Sarcasm I hope.

I know I am stating the obvious, but why won't officials understand that crime is not caused by guns but by social factors such as poverty?

Also, where can I get a square definition of assault weapon. As far as I'm concerned, the rock I picked off the ground or my fists can be assault weapons.:scrutiny:
 
Blah... Blah... Blah...

More mindless drivel from media and cops. People whose intellects I respect, like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and Thomas Paine saw gun ownership as not merely a right, but the duty of free men.

Tell anti-gun media nitwits and cops to kiss my heavily armed ass.

If the presence of guns created a dangerous environment then the homes of THR members would be the most dangerous places on Earth.

Here are some of my "weapons of war."


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And here are a few of my "expensive handguns." (Damn right they're expensive. Just see what it will cost you to try to take them away from me.)


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Drug dealing was the most common crime connected to assault weapons in Orange County.
Well, their War on Drugs hasn't done a thing but cost money. Let's all wait 30 years and see how their War on Guns goes. There can't possibly be a better way to solve this problem. :rolleyes:
 
Quote:
"What is the need?" asked Orange-Osceola's Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Jan Garavaglia, who autopsies the victims. "If you can shoot through the wall of a house, it's not for self-protection. . . . Why anybody has these types of rifles is probably not to do good."

Obviously this person doesn't realize that any gun can shoot through the wall of a house. (facepalm)

The socio-political aspects of the ME's comment's aside, most Florida homes are made with concrete block exteriors. So he's probably got something stronger in mind than 9mm handguns.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot6.htm
 
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