Our Troops in Iraq,just on Fox
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Eleven Mike
Member
Why are we talking about Hathcock's thirty calibers?
Boy, this whole thing went FUBAR.
Boy, this whole thing went FUBAR.
mustanger98
Member
I don't know. I thought we were talking about Barrett's and Ma Duce's being .50BMG and who's got AK's. All of a sudden, somebody brings up Hathcock's rifles and they got it all wrong at that.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
gabeusmc said:
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The Ma Duece is a 50 cal. MACHINE GUN. It is Fully automatic and has no other setting. Its belt fed. The Berret is a 50 cal. sniper rifle that is SEMI AUTO 5 round mag.
gabeusmc, you are absolutely wrong about the M2 .50 cal BMG. As 11Mike points out, that machinegun will only fire in fully-automatic if the gunner turns the bolt release catch clockwise the capture the bolt release lever. Far from being ONLY fully-automatic, its default position is single shot mode, and the gunner has to make the gun capable of fully-automatic by performing this action.
I have to wonder what it was you actually did in Falluja, because it wasn't acting as a machine-gunner. Or, you can tell me I'm full of crap . . . Point out where the safety is on the M2 .50 cal to prove me wrong and that you actually know something about that weapons system . . .
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Eleven Mike
Member
I just want to say that I was quoting someone else in another thread about the M2. The link is in my earlier post. I manned M2's for several months in Bosnia, but only fired them for a familiarization course. I had forgotten the specifics until I found that quotation.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Well, my experience on the M2 goes a little further than a fam-fire . . . but you got it right.
SamTuckerMTNMAN
Member
I was just eating sushi
and the fox channel in the corner had a big thing about TROJAN HORSE AMBUSH. I went to the website and there's nothing about it. They mentioned it was an 'inside' job or something but I couldnt hear, plus it was a date
, so I didn't invest too much time on it. What was that all about?
ST
and the fox channel in the corner had a big thing about TROJAN HORSE AMBUSH. I went to the website and there's nothing about it. They mentioned it was an 'inside' job or something but I couldnt hear, plus it was a date
, so I didn't invest too much time on it. What was that all about?ST
CarpenterCrack
Member
Hathcock did some sniping from a hilltop enplacement with a 50 BMG. They mounted a scope on it. If I recall correctly from his book, it was a Lyman scope.
marksman13
Member
deleted
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gabeusmc
Member
BULLFROGKEN
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gabeusmc
Member
BULLFROGKEN
I never said anything about being a gunner. I was a Radio Operator with a line Company. I never said I was an expert. People are wrong and I can admit I was wrong. You got my Private message so thats all Im going to say.
I never said anything about being a gunner. I was a Radio Operator with a line Company. I never said I was an expert. People are wrong and I can admit I was wrong. You got my Private message so thats all Im going to say.
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Dr. Dickie
Member
(gabeusmc)
The only believable reports I've heard about US troops using AKs (other than various small military units), have been from support troops who were not issued rifles.
(gabeusmc)
Well, I'm no expert on the M2, but, as has been pointed out, you're incorrect about the FA only. As far as the "Berret", it has a 10 round magazine.
(gabeusmc)
But still felt the need for more firepower than your M16...
Maybe you should start over?
Hi, I'm John. We've got lots of folks here, with varying degrees of expertise on nearly every aspect of shooting imaginable. Unfortunately, in both the gun world and military circles, there seems to be a segment who needs to dramatically exaggerate their experiences, even when what they actually did was worthwhile and interesting. Forgive us if we're jaded by such fools. My best advice would be to listen a lot, and only give "factual" information that you actually know. FWIW,
John
The only believable reports I've heard about US troops using AKs (other than various small military units), have been from support troops who were not issued rifles.
(gabeusmc)
Well, I'm no expert on the M2, but, as has been pointed out, you're incorrect about the FA only. As far as the "Berret", it has a 10 round magazine.
(gabeusmc)
But still felt the need for more firepower than your M16...
Maybe you should start over?
Hi, I'm John. We've got lots of folks here, with varying degrees of expertise on nearly every aspect of shooting imaginable. Unfortunately, in both the gun world and military circles, there seems to be a segment who needs to dramatically exaggerate their experiences, even when what they actually did was worthwhile and interesting. Forgive us if we're jaded by such fools. My best advice would be to listen a lot, and only give "factual" information that you actually know. FWIW,
John
gabeusmc
Member
JOHN
I am aware of the people in these circles. I am speaking from my own experience. The Berret 50 cal I was using had a 5 round mag. and that was it. I also restated that I did not get issued an AK I stated I PICKED it up. I also have already admitted the fact I was wrong. I only shot the weopon, had a small class on it and then didnt mess with it after that. As far as exagerrating I hope your not talking about me. I will try to get my pics from home and post them on here. Then we'll see if Im exaggerating.
I am aware of the people in these circles. I am speaking from my own experience. The Berret 50 cal I was using had a 5 round mag. and that was it. I also restated that I did not get issued an AK I stated I PICKED it up. I also have already admitted the fact I was wrong. I only shot the weopon, had a small class on it and then didnt mess with it after that. As far as exagerrating I hope your not talking about me. I will try to get my pics from home and post them on here. Then we'll see if Im exaggerating.
XDKingslayer
member
Absolutely wrong. The M2 has a semi-automatic setting. If you look at the butteryfly handles in the rear between them in the middle is a round knob with a latch. You push the center trigger down and then rotate the knob so the latch holds that trigger down and you're in full auto. Undo the middle trigger and your in semi. The gun can either be fired with the center trigger or the butterflies at that point.
Eleven Mike
Member
Ya know, we were just talking about that. (Read the thread.)
mpmarty
Member
Yeah, well
I hate to add fuel to the fire but while wandering around in country back in the mid sixties, I used to covet the AK as I was usually alone or nealy so and the single shot rifle I packed was not designed for cqb, and an M14 or M16 drew too many interested charlies to my immediate area. I could do half a mag or so of 7.62X39 and boogie (di di mou) to some other place and leave charlie wondering what happened.
I hate to add fuel to the fire but while wandering around in country back in the mid sixties, I used to covet the AK as I was usually alone or nealy so and the single shot rifle I packed was not designed for cqb, and an M14 or M16 drew too many interested charlies to my immediate area. I could do half a mag or so of 7.62X39 and boogie (di di mou) to some other place and leave charlie wondering what happened.
marksman13
Member
Radio Operators with Barretts, huh? I smell smoke. Seems like someone is blowing it up my tailpipe. I wanted to defend you Gabe. I really did. Just don't know how to get around all the smoke and mirrors to help you out now.
I can say from experience that picking up an AK is not all that uncommon. Certain situations make it nescessary improvise, adapt, and overcome. I can also say that it is not all that uncommon for soldiers and marines to be thrown onto a weapon system that they don't know much about, but radio operaters with .50 cal sniper rifles. That one is just a little bit outrageous. Not saying that maybe someone around didn't have one that you got to shoot once, but I highly doubt that any radio operator, in any branch of the service has ever been issued such weapons. Hell, the marines we were stationed with were drooling over my Vietnam era M21.
I don't know your situation, so I won't make assumptions about your service, but I sincerly hope that you are not a poser. It would truly be unfourtunate for an American hero to feel the need to exagerate his actions to prove himself.
I can say from experience that picking up an AK is not all that uncommon. Certain situations make it nescessary improvise, adapt, and overcome. I can also say that it is not all that uncommon for soldiers and marines to be thrown onto a weapon system that they don't know much about, but radio operaters with .50 cal sniper rifles. That one is just a little bit outrageous. Not saying that maybe someone around didn't have one that you got to shoot once, but I highly doubt that any radio operator, in any branch of the service has ever been issued such weapons. Hell, the marines we were stationed with were drooling over my Vietnam era M21.
I don't know your situation, so I won't make assumptions about your service, but I sincerly hope that you are not a poser. It would truly be unfourtunate for an American hero to feel the need to exagerate his actions to prove himself.
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
Hey, as a former Gyrene, I also have humped my share of Radios, because I was a tech and could fix 'em I was a 2814, acting as a 2822 and a 2831/41 and spent a bunch of time breaking the PRC25s and 75s along with some of the old MUX units. I hated the 134s, They could really reach out and touch someone.
What is the Corps using now.
What is the Corps using now.
Eleven Mike
Member
.
I can't tell what gabe is saying about the Barret, other than he once fired one with a five-round magazine. Maybe he fired it on his own dime while off-duty somewhere in the States?
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
I'm not sure what he means either, Mike. I'm guessing he meant he had a familiarization class and fam-fire with the M2.
Gabe, this board is a lot more civil than others, but as you've seen, the other members here who have military experience are having a hard time with some of your assertions. The mistakes about the weapons systems, which certainly is a honest mistake, bring some to then look closely at the rest of your experiences. As I said, this is a civil board, and had you made that mistake on another, the subsequent pile on that typically occurs on those other boards would have been vicious.
In the interest of keeping that from occuring, the Moderators do proactively step in and stop that kind of behavior here. But, it would be a good idea to not let questions like those to go unresolved simply because its unfortunate for someone who had given good and honorable service to our country have his credibility undermined by misunderstandings.
I certainly was led to believe you had more than a passing familiarization with the M2 by your characterization with it. There's nothing wrong with being an RTO. Plenty of folks serve in all sorts of capacities, and its not any less honorable to be a cook, or a clerk, or Motor T to us. Most folks don't ever serve our country in such ways, and some who'd like to simply cannot for various reasons; a military life is hard and demanding.
For the record, I was a Marine infantryman, and my job was 0331, a heavy machinegunner in 3/2 when I was in the Fleet. So, I spotted the faux pa right away. And, when I posted something that I erred on because I'm not familiar about it, I've been corrected as well. As John suggests, the membership here is big and wide enough to have experts in all sorts of endeavors. If someone posts an inaccuracy, its usually gets noticed.
Gabe, you wouldn't mind clearing some of this up for us, would you?
Gabe, this board is a lot more civil than others, but as you've seen, the other members here who have military experience are having a hard time with some of your assertions. The mistakes about the weapons systems, which certainly is a honest mistake, bring some to then look closely at the rest of your experiences. As I said, this is a civil board, and had you made that mistake on another, the subsequent pile on that typically occurs on those other boards would have been vicious.
In the interest of keeping that from occuring, the Moderators do proactively step in and stop that kind of behavior here. But, it would be a good idea to not let questions like those to go unresolved simply because its unfortunate for someone who had given good and honorable service to our country have his credibility undermined by misunderstandings.
I certainly was led to believe you had more than a passing familiarization with the M2 by your characterization with it. There's nothing wrong with being an RTO. Plenty of folks serve in all sorts of capacities, and its not any less honorable to be a cook, or a clerk, or Motor T to us. Most folks don't ever serve our country in such ways, and some who'd like to simply cannot for various reasons; a military life is hard and demanding.
For the record, I was a Marine infantryman, and my job was 0331, a heavy machinegunner in 3/2 when I was in the Fleet. So, I spotted the faux pa right away. And, when I posted something that I erred on because I'm not familiar about it, I've been corrected as well. As John suggests, the membership here is big and wide enough to have experts in all sorts of endeavors. If someone posts an inaccuracy, its usually gets noticed.
Gabe, you wouldn't mind clearing some of this up for us, would you?
tanksoldier
Member
Two tank commanders in my platoon almost got court-martialed for using AKs in a firefight. They had confiscated several AKs and were driving back to the FOB with the AKs stacked on the turret. They got ambushed, and were firing M16's from the hatch at second story targets and such... and ran out of loaded M16 magazines... so they grabbed AKs and started shooting back with those.
Our tank company was attached to an mech infantry Bn with a worthless moron for a Bn commander. The Inf Bn was attached to 173rd Airborne Bde... but was ordered by the Bde commander NOT to wear the 173rd insignia as a combat patch because they didn't deserve it. Rumor has it that the Bde commander wanted to relieve the Bn commander but couldn't because he still belonged to his parent brigade and was only attached to 173rd.
Anyway, this idiot Bn commander threatened to relieve and court martial the two tank commanders who used AKs even though they didn't have anything else available (targets were too close and too high for the coax MG to engage).
Our tank company was attached to an mech infantry Bn with a worthless moron for a Bn commander. The Inf Bn was attached to 173rd Airborne Bde... but was ordered by the Bde commander NOT to wear the 173rd insignia as a combat patch because they didn't deserve it. Rumor has it that the Bde commander wanted to relieve the Bn commander but couldn't because he still belonged to his parent brigade and was only attached to 173rd.
Anyway, this idiot Bn commander threatened to relieve and court martial the two tank commanders who used AKs even though they didn't have anything else available (targets were too close and too high for the coax MG to engage).
gabeusmc
Member
I am a RO, and was attached attached to 3/5 for an operation. I know this is going to sound a little off but I will try and have my wife send me pics as soon as she can scan them. I have pics of me on the barret. I got mixed up with the M2. I got a short class on the M2 and the class did not cover the way to shoot it single fire. I was not in the turret of a 50 cal. I did not carry a Barret, I had an M16 like every other Marine, Soldier, Sailor. I was attached to the sniper platoon for 2 weeks for some reason. I am not saying I am a sniper nor did I go out on cloak and dagger missions. I was on our firm base with them. I was privey enough for them to let me sit at one of the guns which happened to be the Berret. I was on the gun for 2 days and then went with a line company. If there is any other way I can pull my foot out of my mouth let me know. I am not lying nor am I trying to glorify myself. Thank you.
wingnutx
Member
Picking up an AK and using it for the duration of the firefight is not unknown. For example, the amazing Captain Chontosh:
Anyone who says GIs are picking up AKs as a replacement for their M16/M4 is full of it, however.
The Chontosh story is pretty amazing, btw. The Navy Cross may not have been enough, imho.
Anyone who says GIs are picking up AKs as a replacement for their M16/M4 is full of it, however.
The Chontosh story is pretty amazing, btw. The Navy Cross may not have been enough, imho.
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