Out Of Control Range Officers

[Rock185]

Unfortunately, Sometimes RSOs act like TSA employees. They may have minimal training and little understanding of the rules they are enforcing, but right, wrong or indifferent, they are in charge. You can complain all you want to. You will be considered a malcontent and the RSO's chain of command will support the RSO.........ymmv

 

[jmorris]

We were clearly unarmed and outside the area they require people to pay

If you were still on property they were responsible for and not wearing eye or ear protection, I would have politely ran you off too.

If you were on property that he didn't control, you could have politely told him no.

 

[Speedo66]

Westchester County in NY had a public county park range, Blue Mt. One of the rules at the high power rifle range was single shot only. I didn't like it, but could deal with it. The county employee range officer, however, made the range an uncomfortable place for everyone who shot there. If the range wasn't crowded, he would park himself on your shoulder and repeat several times it was single shot only.

After he did this a few times, I would tell him I understood. He did this with everyone, and he would continue to stand at your shoulder the entire time you shot. Extremely annoying, and all the shooters hated it. He grinned and seem to enjoy annoying the shooters. The other ranges there were fine, pistol, shotgun, etc.

I realized I wasn't enjoying shooting there at all, finally gave up after a few times and drove the extra distance up to the Wooster Mt. state range in Danbury CT where they had a much nicer attitude and no single shot rule. It was a shame because the CT range was only 60 yards instead of the 100 in NY, but it was worth it.

The way a RO runs the place can make or break it.

 

[C5rider]

Why not directly address the individual when it happened, as opposed to asking anonymous folks on the internet? Too late now.

Because many times, this is seen as a form of aggression. Like questioning an over-zealous LEO alongside the road. Probably not the best place to do so.

 

[ford8nr]

whose summary of training is composed of a 30 minute video, telling me how to shoot and be safe.

Actually I spent 2 long days in training, this after being an active competitive rifle shooter for over 40 years.
I think I've only raised my voice twice at shooters, both doing something blatantly unsafe, followed by a discussion. Otherwise corrections and discussions a done quietly and privately. It more about teaching then correctly. If I correct someone and they walk away not knowing how to do it right I've not done my job. Now I'm also a NRA Rifle instructor so that might slant my way of thinking.

 

[Tirod]

RO's are gatekeepers to the firing line and they exercise discriminatory powers over their clients in a manner to keep the owner from financial harm.

If you were attempting to practice draws with a horizontal shoulder holster on a range, what kind of issues would immediately spring to mind? Right - it's not going to happen on your watch. And yet it does, somewhere, as they are used. Food for thought - RO's aren't there to improve actual skills in tactical shooting and ranges aren't set up for that practice as it's all about distance precision. And yet if we read credible studies there are 3 million instances where guns were drawn and aggressive predators sent on their way using techniques that would never pass range safety muster.

We are being trained on ranges with all the wrong parameters and yet we still manage to do it right more often than not when actual confrontations on our property or city streets occur. That's why I don't support ranges with RO's and will not shoot at them. It's propping up an institutional system of government control and mandated restrictions where they intrude on our personal protection and how we actually have to fight.

Give me a range where everybody shows up armed carrying a gun rather than cases of empty rifles. That range is operating the way real life works. If you don't think that can possibly be safe then may I direct your attention to the thousands of young soldiers who less than 6 months before never handled an M4 but who are now on patrol with a loaded gun in close proximity to their teammates hunting down terrorists.

I don't need an RO giving me the once over to see if I meet their standards of dress and deportment. For the most part it's institutional discrimination - as we have so clearly seen spelled out. I can shoot at a state sponsored range where there is never an RO and enjoy it. We all cooperate and the sessions have been enjoyable. However, at any time I have been shooting and an RO is on site, then restrictions, rules, and site liability are the norm. Not self defense training or how to handle firearms when you are out in public.

3 million a year are reputedly using firearms to suppress an aggressors attack - yet we train so many on ranges set up for long distance precision shooting and impose range safety rules on them that can't be used out in our front lawn. There is an institutional bias against actual self defense handling of firearms - and for the most part it's hampering how we actually have to carry and use firearms on us where ever we might encounter predators.

Seems those who would be tempted to yell first need an attitude check.

 

[ford8nr]

WOW

We are being trained on ranges with all the wrong parameters and yet we still manage to do it right more often than not

NO, we are actually being trained correctly - SAFE GUN HANDLING.
In a SD situation all bets are off, I still don't want to be muzzle swept with finger on a trigger though.
I was at the range shooting one day, guy in the lane next to me wanted to practice draw and fire with a small of the back holster. After the seconded time he muzzle swept me, finger on the trigger and MISSED his target I told him he was done with that drill !
There is NO reason to practice unsafe. He can practice draw and fire all he wants in private. If I'm shot as a bystander in a SD situation it's bad enough at a range it's inexcusable.

Tirod I suggest you purchase a range apply for insurance and see what your restrictions will be. When you realize what you'd lose in a lawsuit due to YOUR'E lax policies you'd change your tune.

 

[Jack B.]

There were 5 Different ranges that I have done some shooting at. One them is off my list of ranges to use. I gave them 2 tries figuring I caught the head RO on a bad day. Went back about 2 weeks later same thing. It's a shame that a public range allows a total rude RO to work for them. I thought maybe he just didn't like me but after having talked to many other shooters who have used that range , ever one agrees that that range is off their list for the same reason I don't go. It's a shame , the county has spent a lot of money building a nice range and one person who is in a position of authority is extremely rude and ruins what could be a good shooting experience. I just hope people new to shooting don't run into this guy. Probably sell their guns and go buy some gulf clubs.

 

[Hokkmike]

My initial take is that there is insufficient evidence posted to comment or give advice. Let it go. Investigate further if you want to satisfy your understanding of events. But otherwise don't let the angst of how you were treated color your view of the range or Range Officer bother you.

My range has no officers. We self police. The only "incident" I personally witnessed was a dad and his boy shooting at the rifle range. The lad had the bolt closed on his .22 pointed downrange on the bench while people were checking their targets. As I watched he did appear to have fired his rounds and the gun was likely unloaded. My bad that I didn't say anything.

Most of the time when I go shooting no one else is there. Ah...country living.

 

[armoredman]

A view of our overbearing RSOs.



Another pic of the officious little so and sos...




Oh, wait, there nobody there... The city runs this range and maintains it, cleaning every morning, keeping it locked during night time hours, with no supervision, no range fees, and somehow they manage to afford the insurance. Maybe they are self insured? Dunno. I try to go when nobody else is there, weekday mornings or so, but I have been there when idiots are acting the fool, and I leave. 99% of the time, everyone is quite OK self policing, and I have had to speak to someone maybe one or twice in the years I've been going here.
I've been to some other ranges where there are RSO's everywhere, and I have seen what some are like. I'll take my chances.

 

[Hanzo581]

I really hate seeing all the awesome places some of you guys get to shoot. So jealous. Only place within decent driving distance for me to shoot outdoors is busy as hell and $17 an hour.

 

[9MMare]

Sometimes people in charge are multi-tasking. They may have had others under observation as well, trying to determine compliance, safety, etc. Sometimes 'abruptness' or being loud is just a matter of getting the job done so you can attend to the next possible issue, not worrying about how it comes across.

Seems a bit overly sensitive to worry about this to me, unless there is a pattern.

 

[Sunray]

"...walked up to the fence..." Exactly where said fence is matters. 20 yards from the firing line doesn't say much. If it's along the side of the range or anywhere near the butts, you're at fault. Armed or not is irrelevant. The RO could have been more polite though. Lot of RO's are appointed with little or no training because they know somebody.
"...They dislike and prevent us from watching..." Don't want the public to see how bad and unsafe they are. Cops are the worst firearms users when it comes to safety. Lot of cops have been shot by other cops playing 'quick draw'. Mostly the SWAT types who should know better. Lot of 'em think their mommy follows 'em around cleaning up after them too. Opened a CF range, long ago, to find thousands of 9mm empties all over the range. Found out the OPP(like the State Police) TRU(Tactical Rescue Unit. SWAT.) had been there the day before and left the mess. Talked to the Sgt. I knew at Range Control, had my guys clean it up(got me 2500ish cases. All of which had lacquered in, I think, primers. Useless.) and carried on. Toronto ETF(SWAT, as well) caused the one and only public range near TO to be closed due to their irresponsibility. "Training" with SMG's and fired a round that landed next to a guy shingling his roof miles behind the back stop.

 

[ATLDave]

While overbearing/aggressive RO's/RSO's are a very real thing, do bear in mind that they quite reasonably assume that everyone around them is wearing hearing protection. And some will be wearing muffs over plugs. And some of them will be hard-of-hearing/deaf even without hearing protection on. And there's often a lot of loud noise in the background!

Now, remember that the RO/RSO has to communicate in a way that the most deaf and hearing-protected imbecile can hear and understand, even if there's gunfire in the area. This is naturally going to lead their "tone of voice" to be very loud and typically sharp-ish. If you're not used to that, and are expected normal social customs regarding tone and volume of voice to apply, almost anything they say to you (particularly in a "corrective" vein) is going to feel like being "yelled at."

It takes a thick skin to have a "conversation" with some RO's/RSO's! Try not to take it personally.

 

[Sav .250]

I would not take it personally. It`s all about safety!

 

[Deaf Smith]

Our local range is shared with LEO's doing training. They dislike and prevent us from watching.

That is usually cause they are so bad a shot! I've ran police qualifications before. A few are ok shots, most mediocre, and a few really are Barney Fifes.

As for range rules, were I shoot, a private range where you have your own key to get in, there is no RO. I prefer it that way. Yes I still have to keep my head up more just in case I see some poor safety techniques use by others but still I really don't like range Nazis.

Deaf

 

[armoredman]

That is usually cause they are so bad a shot! I've ran police qualifications before. A few are ok shots, most mediocre, and a few really are Barney Fifes.

As for range rules, were I shoot, a private range where you have your own key to get in, there is no RO. I prefer it that way. Yes I still have to keep my head up more just in case I see some poor safety techniques use by others but still I really don't like range Nazis.

Deaf

Dept range is the only range I attend wearing body armor. No, that is absolutely not a joke.

 

[bangswitch]

Why would anyone want to be a RSO at a public range?

I wouldn't go to a public range that didn't have one. To modify a Forrest Gump quote, "Public ranges are like a box of chocolates, about half of them have nuts, and you don't know which ones they are". RSO is a rather thankless job, you're going to piss somebody off no matter what you do, but if done in the spirit of safety for all, so be it.

I couldn't say whether the OP was in the right or wrong, I wasn't there. Maybe the RSO's 'yelling' or behavior was a matter of perception. Whatever the case, I'll bet he's never screwed up on a military range, where the RSO there will hand his ass to him in pieces.

 

[mnrivrat]

Someone once said "a person who has lost his temper, has lost his mind" . If hostile is your temperament, than I suggest the jobs of RO , or LEO should be left to others.

Go kick the dog, or beat up the wife like other mean folk do.

 

[jmorris]

Except we weren't in the range area for any range rules to apply. It's a situation more like standing on a public sidewalk and being told you need to move into the street.

Simple at that point. "No, thank you."

Sometimes less is more. If you are in fact somewhere you don't belong someone else will be along shortly to let you know.

FWIW there are folks that when they tell you to move into the street, even if your standing on a public side walk, you should listen.

 

[Wisco]

RSO: "Go to the parking lot."

Me: "Say please." "Or what?" "No." "Why?" "Now?" "Say hi to your wife for me."

Quite literally anything would be more assertive than just doing what you're told if you feel it's out of line and then asking strangers about how to hem up the RSO at a later time. The time for hemming was right then.

 

[grampajack]

I would report him. His behavior is not conducive to drawing non shooters to the sport. Whether we like it or not, we're all ambassadors of the 2nd Amendment, and anyone who can't handle that shouldn't be working in the industry.

 

[Bill50]

Somewhat wide range of replies. All of which are interesting.

 

[hdwhit]

Bill50 wrote:
Out Of Control...

I read the account in the OP and I don't get a sense of the RSO being "out of control" simply because he yelled at you and ordered you out of the area.

I would follow the advice from Buckhorn_Cortez and C5rider and first verify that you were not doing something wrong. If you were not then you can approach the RSO's supervisor with an attitude of "how can I learn from this encounter" and see where it goes.

 

[stonecutter2]

I took a new shooter to the shotgun range today. We shot clays for an hour or so. When we were done, I took her to check out the other clay sports and the rifle range.

At the rifle range, we walked up to the fence during a cease fire. I didn't finish explaining what a cease fire was before a range officer told us to get back to the parking lot.

All the guns and ammo I had were in my trunk, so it's not like we were wandering around with unsafe firearms. Every time I've been in the rifle range, they make non-shooters stay outside the fence. The fence was about 20 yards from the firing line.

I left after he yelled at us. Is there a nice way to report a range officer? It was on a public state park, so rules aren't arbitrary.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Could've had a bad day, might have been dealing with a squib and wanted everyone clear, you might have inadvertently done something, too.

I'd let it go. If it becomes a constant thing with only that officer, bring it up.

Move on and have a great day.