Outside the box barrel idea.

[Nuclear]

So I have a friend who is good shooter, but not a gun guy. He inherited an 1885 in 25-06 from his father, and decided he would like to shoot long distance. His first idea was to have the 1885 rebarreled in a tighter twist so as to shoot the longer, heavier bullets. I did some research and didn’t find any DIY videos on how to replace the barrel, or anyone who made replacement barrels, or gunsmiths who could do the work if he found someone to make the barrel.

His next idea is actually intriguing. Would it be possible to thread the muzzle of his existing barrel, and then machine an extension to screw on the threaded muzzle. This extension would have a transition from the slower twist to a faster twist (we have a few ideas on how to possibly do this). Would this stabilize the longer bullets, and how long would it need to be to do so? Is this just a theoretical machining option or could it be practically done? And of course you would have to secure the extension to the existing barrel.

My suggestion is that he buy a bolt action rifle in some 6mm caliber.

 

[jmr40]

Tell your friend to leave the 1885 as it is. I don't know what he calls long range, but I'd shoot the rifle as it came from the factory at longer ranges and see how it does. If it doesn't meet his expectations changing the barrel to a faster twist 25-06 isn't going to change much. He will spend less money and get better results by simply buying another rifle.

If he doesn't handload I'd suggest either 308 or 6.5CM depending on what he calls long range. With factory loads 308 will be good to 800-maybe 1000 yards. The 6.5CM well over 1000 yards.

There are better cartridges, but not by much, and they are only viable if he handloads.

 

[12Bravo20]

I will second the notion to leave that rifle as is and just try shooting it at long distances to see how it does. I also agree that he would be better off leaving the 1885 alone and just buying a new rifle. While 6mm cartridges are great, they are not as common as 6.5CM or 308. Though the 6CM is definitely gaining ground with more factory ammo available.

 

[jmorris]

If he had the ability to do it, it might be a fun project.

He would have to have a lot more money than sense to pay someone to do that much work.

By the time he was done, he could have probably just bought outright a benchrest rifle, optics and other gear with the money and the rifle he ends up with probably won’t be even close in accuracy.

That said, gain twist barrels have been made before, I have several.

A gain-twist or progressive rifling begins with a slow twist rate that gradually increases down the bore, resulting in very little initial change in the projectile's angular momentum during the first few inches of bullet travel after it enters the throat. This enables the bullet to remain essentially undisturbed and trued to the case mouth. After engaging the rifling at the throat, the bullet is progressively subjected to accelerated angular momentum as it gets propelled down the barrel. The theoretical advantage is that by gradually increasing the spin rate, torque gets imparted along a much longer bore length, allowing thermomechanical stress to be spread over a larger area rather than being focused predominantly at the throat, which typically wears out much faster than other parts of the barrel. Gain-twist rifling was used prior to and during the American Civil War (1861–65). Colt Armyand Navy revolvers both employed gain-twist rifling. Gain-twist rifling, however, is more difficult to produce than uniform rifling, and therefore is more expensive. The military has used gain-twist rifling in a variety of weapons such as the 20 mm M61 Vulcan Gatling gun used in some current fighter jets and the larger 30 mm GAU-8 Avenger Gatling gun used in the A10 Thunderbolt II close air support jet. In these applications it allows lighter construction of the barrels by decreasing chamber pressures through the use of low initial twist rates but ensuring the projectiles have sufficient stability once they leave the barrel. It is seldom used in commercially available products, though notably on the Smith & Wesson Model 460 (X-treme Velocity Revolver).[27]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifling

 

[N555]

To shoot "long range" it really helps to have High ballistic coefficient bullets.
25cal just doesn't have a great selection of high BC bullets.

 

[Varminterror]

Gain twist barrels have to have gradual transition, and the transition (twist acceleration) needs to happen earlier in the barrel than what you’re describing.

So what will happen if you build this as described: the bullets will gain speed in the original barrel, then slam into the faster twist of the “brake” and skid/deform/foul like crazy… nothing to be gained here.

 

[Beck]

Gain twist barrels have to have gradual transition, and the transition (twist acceleration) needs to happen earlier in the barrel than what you’re describing.

So what will happen if you build this as described: the bullets will gain speed in the original barrel, then slam into the faster twist of the “brake” and skid/deform/foul like crazy… nothing to be gained here.

^^^ This precisely !

 

[Varminterror]

To shoot "long range" it really helps to have High ballistic coefficient bullets.
25cal just doesn't have a great selection of high BC bullets.

131 Blackjacks, 133 Elite Hunters, 134 ELD-m’s, 135 LR Hybrids.

 

[N555]

Wow options for a 25 call match rifle suck more than I thought.
Looks like 25cal bullet production is even lower priority than 8mm.
With 8mm I see my prefered bullets briefly once every 2 or 3 years.

 

[LoonWulf]

Wow options for a 25 call match rifle suck more than I thought.
Looks like 25cal bullet production is even lower priority than 8mm.
With 8mm I see my prefered bullets briefly once every 2 or 3 years.

You only need one that works lol.

Out of curiosity what 8 mm VLDs are there? It's something I've never looked into.

 

[N555]

Assuming someone shoots matches they probably going to be using up a lot of them.
I was able to buy up 500 .323'' nozler 180gr ballistic tip boat tails before the plandemic kicked off. Haven't seen them in over 3 years, aside from occasionally showing up on gun broker at gouge prices and I don't need them that bad.

 

[LoonWulf]

Assuming someone shoots matches they probably going to be using up a lot of them.
I was able to buy up 500 .323'' nozler 180gr ballistic tip boat tails before the plandemic kicked off. Haven't seen them in over 3 years, aside from occasionally showing up on gun broker at gouge prices and I don't need them that bad.

Nice, ive been waiting on .375 260gr accubonds to come available been about the same time line lol.
I do need to snag a few more .257s balistics if i see them also, im down to just a few boxes.

 

[N555]

Someone was selling a pile of various 375 bullets in the for sale section with in the last few days.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

So I have a friend who is good shooter, but not a gun guy. He inherited an 1885 in 25-06 from his father, and decided he would like to shoot long distance. His first idea was to have the 1885 rebarreled in a tighter twist so as to shoot the longer, heavier bullets.

Winchester 1885 right???

I did some research and didn’t find any DIY videos on how to replace the barrel, or anyone who made replacement barrels, or gunsmiths who could do the work if he found someone to make the barrel.

Huh ??? the barrel screws in after the forearm is removed with a action wrench and barrel vise. IF someone calls themselves a gunsmith and can't perform this basic task they are not a gunsmith. There is probably at least 10 or more in Arizona that has a lathe. And ability to order a barrel blank, profile, thread the barrel for the action, and caliber the rifle to the intent of your friend. If they are a "gunsmith" and don't have a lathe then they need to get out of the title and call themselves a armorer.

The 25-06 is a fine caliber but I would recommend before doing anything , give it a try at range with the loads he thinks he might need.

And for the idea of threading a extension to the barrel to try a gain twist for a faster twist is
1. a butcher job.
2. is unsafe and will probably split the barrel all the way back to the action maybe.

and yes he would probably spend more than he would by just buying bolt gun to shoot long range. Even though I have done that exact thing because I loved the action or as a quirk, or to prove a point that it could be done.

 

[Varminterror]

Wow options for a 25 call match rifle suck more than I thought.

If you can’t shoot long range with one of those options, you can’t shoot.

 

[Nuclear]

Ok, thanks for the help(?)

To address some comments;

He has shot it with the available 25-06 commercial loads, such as is available. I’d say it is minute of bunny at 100 yards, and minute of deer at 200 yards. Haven’t shot it past that distance, because what would really be the point? It isn’t going to get more accurate at longer distances.

He isn’t a hand loader yet, and would need to start from ground zero. If it is only accurate enough for hunting with 90-120 grain bullets, how likely is it that it will be more accurate with the longer 130+ grain bullets? It is about 45 years old, and the barrel twist isn’t going to be up to VLD bullets.

Thanks to Varminter for addressing whether my friend’s oddball idea would work or not.

Changing out the existing barrel does seem simple enough, I do wonder about how expensive a one off custom barrel in a less than popular caliber & cartridge would be.

And again, I did already suggest that he just buy a bolt action rifle in whatever is the new hotness for long distance shooting.

 

[12Bravo20]

After rereading the OP it sounds like the rifle might have some sentimental value since your friend inherited it from his father. The best course of action in this case is to leave it alone. As myself and others have said, he would be better off buying a new rifle in a different caliber.

Now if your friend is set on keeping and using that action, then the best thing is a complete barrel swap. Do not try putting an extension with a different twist rate onto the end of the current barrel for reasons already explained.

Please don't be "Bubba the back yard gun wrecker" and ruin a firearm and/or make it unsafe to shoot.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Aside from having to get the transition perfect in terms of both concentricity and timing the lands & grooves (that had better be dimensionally identical), trying to instantaneously increase the rotational speed of a bullet already doing ~3,000 FPS is unlikely to give good results. Bullet deformation and lots of copper fouling in your extension are the likely result.

Why not just try some of the heavies with the existing barrel that's likely 1:10? They might stabilize just fine. If not, it ain't like the 117 or 120 gr boat tails have low ballistic coefficients.

 

[N555]

If you can’t shoot long range with one of those options, you can’t shoot.

It looks like any given time one of those bullets might available. What if the rifle just doesn't like the bullet that happens to be available?

 

[Jim Watson]

I wrestled with a Ruger 77 .25-06 and never did get the accuracy of a .223, .22-250, or .308.
There are better bullets now, the 115 gr Berger will probably be ok in the stock 10 twist.

But there are reasons that modern target rifles are bolt actions. My Browning/Miroku 1885 is accurate... for a .40-65 with cast bullets and black powder. I would not want to try to tame one in a smokeless caliber.

 

[halfmoonclip]

What kind of sights does your friend use? What is the actual vintage of his '85?
It seems a shame to bugger a neat old rifle, although a barrel swap could be cleanly done.
PPs have noted the challenge of adding a gain twist chaser to an existing barrel...ow.
Moon