overcoming flinch (novice notes)

[hbadger]

First off, let me say I am new at this, so I am more looking for helpful advice/criticism than suggesting that I have any tried and proven wisdom to offer.

Heck, all I really have is an idea which came to me yesterday at the END of my range session. I won't be able to test it until tomorrow.

Target shooting revolvers, either single or double-action.

I can hold it on target just fine. In dry fire practice, I have hit thousands of spots on my wall. But with live fire I flinch. I line the sights up on the target, but instead of a trigger squeeze I jerk the barrel.

So I have decided to "go with" the instinct instead of "overcoming" it. Turn the flinch response into a "poke" or thrust. Push the barrel forward into the target.

Along with this, changing my mindset. Previous was "My job is to hold the gun still while applying the trigger. The gun's job is to send the bullet through the target." I will instead make it my business to poke the hole, as though the barrel really was 25 meters long (or the target was much closer ).

Hoping for some better advice for more accurate shooting under slow fire conditions!

 

[Manson]

Let us know how it works for you. I would be concerned that the mental image of poking a hole at the target will cause a subtle movement and have the same result as flinching.

 

[xXxplosive]

1-Shoot a caliber that doesn't intimidate you....ie. .22, .38 spec.
2-When aligning the sights Concentrate on the Front Sight not the rear, not the target but where the front sight is on the target.....then align with the rear sight.
3- Use you index finger pad to PRESS the trigger, not squeeze, not jerk....PRESS.
4-Take a breath and let 1/2 out and hold it before you apply pressure and PRESS the trigger.
5- Object is the Surprise Shot....when the sear breaks and the hammer falls in complete surprise with no anticipation of the gun going off......the most accurate shot.

That's it..............

 

[Fred Fuller]

Somehow it doesn't seem to me that "going with" the flinch will really help matters much if at all. Flinching is basically a learned response to a stimulus (muzzle blast and recoil). If you can hold the pistol relatively still in known-to-you dry fire, then I can see nothing that says you shouldn't be able to hold it for live fire just as well.

The usual approach to learning not to flinch is surprising yourself by 'skip loading' a revolver or loading dummy rounds in a pistol magazine in different locations so that sometimes you get a 'click' and sometimes you get a 'bang.' See also various articles available online, like:

http://www.policeone.com/police-pro...coming-the-flinch-response-Let-recoil-happen/

http://corneredcat.com/How_to_Cure_a_Flinch/

 

[45_auto]

You may want to do a little basic research on stances and overcoming flinches as others have suggested. Shoving the gun around while trying to press the trigger is not very conductive to keeping the sights aligned on target.

If your pistol has 6" between the front and rear sight, every .001" (one thousandth of an inch, a human hair is about three thousandths) of sight misalignment will move the bullet about 3/16" at 25 yards. Jerking the sights .010" out of alignment will cost you a couple of inches at 25 yards.

If you hope to make any significant progress with your pistol, you're going about it the wrong way. Get some decent training.

 

[beatledog7]

One of the best cures for flinch is a never-before-fired gun with a surprisingly clean trigger break.

The shooter sets up his stance and sight picture, presses the trigger rearward without knowing exactly when that trigger is going to break, fires off the first round, and sees the bullet hit his POA.

"Wow! So that's what happens when I don't flinch."

 

[conw]

I don't agree with your approach...here's what has helped me with flinch and similar issues:

-Ball and dummy, or with the revolver, just don't load certain chambers and then spin the cylinder

-Hard front sight focus (watch the front sight rise). Having an orange or red front sight can help this.

-Don't target glance - instead, "trust" the sights and learn to call your shots (think to yourself, "that probably went left," or "dead on!" simply by viewing the position of the sights as you pull the trigger and follow through).

-Wear good eye pro and focus on keeping your eyes open...the shockwave from the muzzle blast hitting your eye is partly responsible for flinching. Mentally, tell yourself 'that scary explosion is not dangerous or going to harm me.'

-Work on follow through - until you see the sight rise, hold in reset, and back off (let the trigger back out) only once you begin to bring the sights back into alignment

-Good stance, nose over toes, shoulders hunched, "drive" the gun - this will minimize muzzle flip

-Instead of thinking in terms of each shot, think in terms of a string of shots. If you are putting 5 shots into an 8" plate at 3 yards, keep a faster pace than if you are shooting at a 3x5 card at 5 yards. CADENCE is very important: keep the same delay between each shot. Don't overthink it, just shoot your string while watching the sights with good trigger control. Simple, but not easy

 

[Owen Sparks]

People are born with a natural fear of only two things, loud noise and falling. These fears can never be totally trained out of you. Flinching is a natural response to loud noise that is just as involuntary as blinking. It can be controlled with training ONLY if you know it is coming. For example, the most experienced shooter among us would jump or “flinch” just like a beginner if someone slipped up behind him and fired a shot while he was not expecting it. While some people are more jumpy than others, all of us have some degree of this pre-programmed response hard-wired from birth.

 

[baylorattorney]

Serious hearing protection, good shooting glasses (safety), lower powered rounds and practice practice practice


Judge a man not by the answers he gives, but by the questions he asks. - Voltaire

 

[coebam]

Agreed...practice practice practice. Soon you will become used to the bang. Press or squeeze the trigger. The only way to be dead on, tack driver accurate, is to listen to what these people are saying here. Lunging or pushing the gun will not yield favorable results. The idea, as said earlier, is to "be a bit surprised" when the discharge happens. That way the target is sighted in, and the projectile is long gone down range before the barrel moves.

 

[ATLDave]

Lots of the oft-repeated stuff didn't help me a lick. A dummy round or underloaded mag reveals a flinch, but it won't cure it. Focusing on a clean trigger squeeze, etc., doesn't help a true flinch, just a jabby trigger stroke... they are not the same thing. Practice can help some, but after a point, if the flinch persists, practice just ingrains it. I'm not saying none of those things has ever worked for others, but they didn't help me a bit, and I've seen them be ineffective on others with a true flinch.

Here's what helped: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=82124&hl=flinch breaker&st=0

It works because the flinch starts with your eyes. You are closing your eyes as the gun goes off. All the mechanical stuff with your hands follows from that. The steps outlined in the Brian Enos thread work because they get you to see your gun firing. Go shoot into a blank backstop with no target whatsoever. Forget about trigger pull for a bit. Try to see the muzzle blast. Try to see the brass eject. Try to see the slide operate. Try to see the front sight lift. If you can see that stuff, you'll be keeping your eyes open.

Also, shoot lots and lots of .22. A flinch comes from loud noises and a jumping gun. I developed a flinch because I started shooting handguns with centerfires. Go to the .22. You'll quickly be able to see everything. Once you've got the flinch mastered with a .22, go back to a centerfire. If the flinch rears its head again (and once you've had one, it's always a possibility that it will come back, either from non-shooting, or from shooting high-recoil/-flash/-report rounds), go back to the .22.

Good luck. It's absolutely possible to overcome even a bad flinch. But jabbing the gun at the target ain't the answer.

 

[conw]

Dave I found that thread helped as well. Flexmoney is a member on THR.

I just moved to ATL...shoot me a PM if you want to shoot or train.

 

[taliv]

there is a big difference between a) diagnostics of detecting you have a flinch and determining that the flinch is causing misses, and b) getting rid of the flinch once you realize you have it.

some of the techniques described like putting a dud round in your cylinder/magazine only tell you that you have a flinch. they don't help you get rid of it.


techniques to get rid of the flinch usually revolve around minimizing the pain (better ear-pro, gloves, pads, lower recoil/lower noise rounds) and a zen-like focus on some aspect like the target or the trigger pull, follow through etc.

at the end of the day, the flinch is mental and the solutions are mental.

 

[CoRoMo]

...the flinch is mental and the solutions are mental.

So true. I'll get to flinching when I shoot steel challenge and it screws up the whole string. I then have to stop, think about what I'm doing wrong, and focus on the basics/fundamentals that xXxplosive described. Once I shake it off and relax, I can perform much better; like night and day better.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Using your "poke the target" method or "going with the flinch" is counter productive...it isn't even a good way to go about learning to pointshoot.

The secret to shooting accurately is two fold:
1. correctly aligning the sights and holding them on the target...pretty easy once you understand it, unless you have a vision problem

2. the trigger press...much harder, because you want the shot to hit the target NOW

Please refer to the first set of three links in my signature to understand grip, trigger control and how to correctly dryfire/see your sights.

If you have questions after than, at least well be talking from the same basic understanding

 

[Doghandler]

Closer bigger targets is my answer to everything that ales the suffering shooter.

Get positive feedback. Check fundamentals. Move it out. Continue.

 

[conw]

Please refer to the first set of three links in my signature to understand grip

I enjoyed watching it but didn't find the "hammer grip" (same amount of pressure used to hold a hammer) 50/50 helped me much, personally. What helps me is applying a lot of tension with my dominant hand middle finger and thumb, less with my ring and pinkie finger, and a lot more pressure in general with my off hand.

I know the guy in the link is a great shooter, definitely better than me, but his advice didn't work great for me. And I know other great shooters use other methods, so I don't feel there is a consensus on grip.

 

[9mmepiphany]

And I know other great shooters use other methods, so I don't feel there is a consensus on grip.

Of course it depends on how you define a great shooter, but all the top shooters...the ones who represent the USA in World Competition, and the ones who taught them...do use the same method.

You might not be applying the grip correctly. You're trying to control the recoil with muscle tension rather than managing it through even pressure to bring the sights back on target. The thumb shouldn't be applying any pressure at all, it causes shots to string laterally and low right

 

[Countryboy7]

Maybe you are shooting at too long of distances then your ready for. Start in at closer ranges and move out. That has helped me a lot with handgun shooting.

 

[baylorattorney]

Use a laser and dry fire all nite. The laser will show ur steadiness.


Judge a man not by the answers he gives, but by the questions he asks. - Voltaire

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Dry fire and if you can get a revolver, load one cylinder, spin it, then close it and keep pulling the trigger till it finally goes bang!

 

[hbadger]

Many thanks to everyone.

Judge a man not by the answers he gives, but by the questions he asks. - Voltaire

I hope this means I am on the right track, 'cause based on the collected wisdom in this thread my "poke the gun" idea is something you want the other guy to practice.

I would be concerned that the mental image of poking a hole at the target will cause a subtle movement and have the same result as flinching.

Me too. BUT

Flinching is a natural response to loud noise that is just as involuntary as blinking.

Which is why I though going with the reflex would be better than fighting against it. When I flinch, I jerk the gun down and to the right. A poke would not.

at the end of the day, the flinch is mental and the solutions are mental.

I was a fencer in college, so have some accuracy in poking things. I thought of the poke as analogeous to pointshooting (thanks to 9mmepiphany for correcting this)

I also notice that I shoot better when I have a mental connection between myself and the target. It becomes more of an uncouncouis act than a rational call. Isn't that the point of "Zen and the art of hitting stuff"? (along with other training approaches).

Lots of the oft-repeated stuff didn't help me a lick. A dummy round or underloaded mag reveals a flinch, but it won't cure it. Focusing on a clean trigger squeeze, etc., doesn't help a true flinch, just a jabby trigger stroke... they are not the same thing

I'm the same way. I KNOW I have a flinch, and it is because I am 'scared' of the gun. Dry fire w/ a penny balanced on the front sight, I can squeeze of 3-4 DA shots before dropping the coin. I don't flinch with my airpistol. But when the 357 is about to go bang I jerk away.

Thanks for the brianenos link

Please refer to the first set of three links in my signature to understand grip, trigger control and how to correctly dryfire/see your sights.

 

[Josh45]

I hope no one minds me tagging this, It has helped me out a lot since I have started to flinch from shooting .357 Mags.

Thanks for posting this and everyone else for the helpful links.

 

[baylorattorney]

Ha. That Voltaire quote is just my signature and wasn't thread-specific. Lolzz


Waste not want not.

 

[baylorattorney]

If u like me can't afford the penny method buy the laser sights. Hah. I'm jk. Lol. I flinched on a coyote yesterday, saw the dirt fly 20 yards bf the target and thought of this thread. Firing 10mm hot loads. Scared the both of us! I was steady on the second shot but led him by five yards too many. He didn't know where to go but absconded just the same. In other words flinching happens to the best shooters at times for any number of reasons. I'll just keep trying tho.


Waste not want not.