Why not a polymer gun?
P85 for a bug-out sidearm?
- Thread starter Sammael94
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silicosys4
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#1 reason, you can't fix a cracked polymer frame.
One example.
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/14322011
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g19_cracked.html
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/t...pt-709-frame-cracks-update-slim-2-busted.html
In a true bug out situation, you don't know when you are going to see the rest of your collection. The pistol you have with you might very well have to last the rest of your life and be the determining factor in exactly how long that is. You might take a few falls,
https://loadoutroom.com/3817/when-polymer-guns-fail-hk-p2000/
And with a Bug out gun there is a much higher possibility of having to run unknown, reloaded ammo through it. Ammo factories won't be supplying you after the world ends, and a kaboom that might shatter the frame of a polymer frame gun might just blow the mag out of a steel one.
its just a factor I'd rather leave out of the equation.
You CANNOT repair a cracked polymer frame, whereupon a steel frame can be welded on. Pretty important if you plan on making your gun last potentially decades in a hostile environment.
I have plenty of polymer framed guns. But for a situation where longevity might very well be a life or death factor, I'll just carry the few extra ounces if it eliminates or minimizes a potential wear problem.
My personal choice would be a revolver, or a cz75 perhaps.
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ArchAngelCD
Member.
Buyout sidearm? A .357 Magnum revolver is my first choice followed by a 1911 in 45 ACP.
I would take my S&W M686 and my M640 (or one of my .38 Special J frames) as a BUG.
I would take my S&W M686 and my M640 (or one of my .38 Special J frames) as a BUG.
JTQ
Member
I don't know about a "post apocalyptic" world, but I'd think it may be easier to find a G17/G19 than welding equipment, unless you're carrying your own welding equipment in your bug out bag.
danez71
Member
Welding aluminum is a specialty. Better make sure it's steel if it's a concern and you want to have much of any chance at an attempt to weld.
I'm just mentioning this as the OP mentioned steel or alloy.
I'm just mentioning this as the OP mentioned steel or alloy.
I can see having a Ruger P85 or P89 in a bug out bag.
Pistols that reside in bug out bags tend to be those that aren't the owners favorite, but that are reliable, that they shoot alright and that don't cost a lot. That last item is key because of the possibility of theft. For good or bad bug out bags or get home bags often reside in vehicles and that puts them at greater risk of theft. Most people are not willing to put a high cost pistol at a greater risk of theft no matter how light it is. I personally wouldn't keep an unsecured pistol in my locked and alarmed truck unless there's a safe installed in it, but many others do.
On the weight issue yes they are clunky, especially when compared to others. In the scheme of things it's not that big a deal though. Compared to another pistol the Ruger P85 weighs 32 ounces vs 23 ounces for the Glock 19. Yes I realize that ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain, but if they're keeping an eye out towards having the rest of the gear being fairly light 9 ounces isn't really that big of a deal.
As far as if/when the Ruger P-series pistol was carried by law enforcement I saw it carried by some officers employed by small departments in southern Arizona in the 1990's. I remember this as even back then they weren't exactly all that high speed, but when asked about it one of the cops I spoke with just kind of shrugged his shoulders and said "They work fine and that's all I really care about". So I don't see that it's really any different for someone pulling it out of a bug out bag ... They work.
Pistols that reside in bug out bags tend to be those that aren't the owners favorite, but that are reliable, that they shoot alright and that don't cost a lot. That last item is key because of the possibility of theft. For good or bad bug out bags or get home bags often reside in vehicles and that puts them at greater risk of theft. Most people are not willing to put a high cost pistol at a greater risk of theft no matter how light it is. I personally wouldn't keep an unsecured pistol in my locked and alarmed truck unless there's a safe installed in it, but many others do.
On the weight issue yes they are clunky, especially when compared to others. In the scheme of things it's not that big a deal though. Compared to another pistol the Ruger P85 weighs 32 ounces vs 23 ounces for the Glock 19. Yes I realize that ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain, but if they're keeping an eye out towards having the rest of the gear being fairly light 9 ounces isn't really that big of a deal.
As far as if/when the Ruger P-series pistol was carried by law enforcement I saw it carried by some officers employed by small departments in southern Arizona in the 1990's. I remember this as even back then they weren't exactly all that high speed, but when asked about it one of the cops I spoke with just kind of shrugged his shoulders and said "They work fine and that's all I really care about". So I don't see that it's really any different for someone pulling it out of a bug out bag ... They work.
Stacking "might" on top of "might" starts getting into the realm of irrelevancy or lottery odds.
silicosys4
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What, like you "might" have to bug out because the world "might" crumble?
Well, some would say so does presenting a question about bug out guns. Anybody here ever have to bug out? Anybody here know anybody who's bugged out? Anybody here even heard of someone legitimately bugging out in this country?
Since we are already in the realm of improbable situations and long odds to begin with...
It's fair game to theorize about what a bug out gun would truly encounter.
OP
OP
Sammael94
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I'm not really concerned about longevity for decades, just temporary situations in which I might have to bug out, so that's not why I don't want polymer. I'll be the first to say that a big part of the reason I would really rather have a steel or aluminum frame is purely psychological (which is a real actual concern; you need to be completely comfortable with and confident in your weapon), but the other reason is that where I live there is a real chance that, if a bug out is necessary, I will have to navigate some very rough country, and I want something that I know for a fact will still be fully functional after taking a 30 foot tumble down a 65 degree rocky slope. That's the main reason I want something with a steel frame.
BLU
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I personally serviced the P-series pistols, mostly metal frame guns and I swore they would never last. I couldn't have been more wrong. Some springs saw 20-30,000 rounds and were still performing. Unbelievable. Everything held up and continued to function. What a tank! Replace the springs and you can give it to your grandchildren! It wouldn't be my choice, (revolver), but it will certainly last.
kBob
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"My father recently upgraded his personal handgun from a P85 to a SIG P226 Mk25, and I am thinking he will allow me to "repurpose" his old wondernine for my bug-out bag."
...and there it is! Free gun that works verses opinions. No brainer. Take the P85 if Dad lets you have it or even gives you a common DNA discount.
The rules for Bugout guns start with "1. Have a gun." After that comes gravy.
I would shoot the begeebers out of it, find the ammo you both like and listen to the spring and magazine folks up stream and shoot it some more.
-kBob
...and there it is! Free gun that works verses opinions. No brainer. Take the P85 if Dad lets you have it or even gives you a common DNA discount.
The rules for Bugout guns start with "1. Have a gun." After that comes gravy.
I would shoot the begeebers out of it, find the ammo you both like and listen to the spring and magazine folks up stream and shoot it some more.
-kBob
kBob
Member
Well in the last ten minutes I googled P85 and got some great reviews though most mentioned the P85 is large and clunky and somewhat ill suited for CCW.
I had not known about the recall for a safety issue on the earliest production guns. The safety should have markings of MkII or MkIIR on one side or the other to be considered safe. Check out Dad's pistol and go look for the recall notices and be aware of that issue.
-kBob
I had not known about the recall for a safety issue on the earliest production guns. The safety should have markings of MkII or MkIIR on one side or the other to be considered safe. Check out Dad's pistol and go look for the recall notices and be aware of that issue.
-kBob
Well, I grew up and spent a large chunk of my life about a mile from where the 17th Street Canal levee failed and flooded New Orleans after the city otherwise had survived the brunt of Hurricane Katrina, and I spent my early years as a first responder who would have been one of the last to leave the city, or I would have bugged out many times. My mom and sister bugged out post-Katrina on a few minutes notice. A few weeks ago they had to bug out of a hotel in Gatlinburg when the fire got to the parking lot. Now, I have a small cabin in the woods in a half million acre national forest full of beetle killed trees. In the last 4 years we have had major fires that have threatened the entire forest but for the valiant efforts of federal, state and local fire-fighting resources and a touch of luck. A careless camper or smoker is a major, constant threat. So, being ready to grab and go on very short notice is a very real part of my life to date. It is not about zombies or societal breakdown, just mother nature.
On the gun front, I have seen a lot of guns of all types fail, and I have not noticed that plastic ones have a higher failure rate than metal ones, although they don’t fare as well in fires. They do fare much better in wet conditions, though. They all have trade-offs.
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DeadEye9
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I think the same and not only for concealment but weight issues. In a theoretical bug out situations roads may not be an option so the old two feet may have to be your transport. When it comes down to that, ounces matter. Polymer guns are fine for go to war pistols. The Glock 17 is one of the most battle proven sidearms of our current time along with a ton of rising stars. Me personally I run a Gen 3 Glock 26 in my Bugout. Dead reliable, well under 30oz, I have literally 100 magazines for it and can use 10,15,17,33 options. 9mm is everywhere and lighter to carry than big bores. My bug out rifle of choice is a 5.56 AR. Not to burst anyone's Tactical bubble but in a bug out situation if you picture yourself sniping at 800+ yards with a 308 or 338 Lap your living a fantasy. Any confrontation will be up close and happen very fast. For that reason I chose a semi auto battery of arms with high mag capacity, and fast follow up shots. Again, lighter than a .308 so carry more rounds for a given weight and I'm not worried about 5.56 lacking perceived "stopping power". Anyone who harps that the 5.56 is not a capable man stopper has either never seen combat or flat out can't shoot. With appropriate ammo it is more than capable of stopping a threat inside of 300yds and in a pinch can be made to perform a lot farther than that if the need arises. All that being said your needs and skill levels obviously vary from mine, so I say carry what you are comfortable with. If YOU can hit with a P95 very well, and are confident in operating a .308 bolt gun proficiently under duress then you are going to be fine with it. (good practice is running in place or doing jumping jacks for a solid 5-10 mins to get your heart rate and breathing up then immediately start running the weapon and see how you perform) Also if you don't mind carrying the total weight of your bug out gear. (I also suggest going for a long jog/run while carrying your bug out pack loaded so you know what that weight feels like in motion) Bottom line is having any system/equipment in place is going to make a big difference, bigger than any differences in what that particular gear is or isn't. As long as you have something in place odds are you will be pretty well fairing.
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