PowderBurn
Member
The beauty of it is they aren't that expensive, and in most places you don't need any special permits, licenses, or waiting periods. Cabela's and many others will ship it straight to your door. It's much too easy!
Paper Cartridges, step by step photos..
- Thread starter timuchin
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Third_Rail
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- Jan 10, 2004
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Sticky this thread, it needs it. There've been two threads asking for how to make paper cartridges since it was posted.
TMM - depends on the state, but generally no. Not even 18 in a lot of places.
TMM - depends on the state, but generally no. Not even 18 in a lot of places.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Third_Rail - indeed, it is a valuable reference.
I am pre-empting 4V50Gary here as it is not my forum to mod but will sticky it just so as it does not slip down again into oblivion
I am pre-empting 4V50Gary here as it is not my forum to mod but will sticky it just so as it does not slip down again into oblivion
Third_Rail
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- Jan 10, 2004
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- 4,979
Thanks much!
This, IMO, is in the same league as Gatofeo's "best usage" thread.
This, IMO, is in the same league as Gatofeo's "best usage" thread.
warbirdlover
Member
Can you throw a lubed wad in there between ball and powder? Or isn't it necessary. I don't like to use grease over the balls.
Smokin_Gun
Member
Timuchin, Great Job with the Pics!
I thought this looked familiar when one of the guys posted your site in Voy.com ... Great job on the Pics ...I like it well done. Below is what I had stored in my files Timuchin. It surely did look familar...LoL! ;oD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I've found Zig-Zag papers to be the best. Perfect size and
durable, but any regular size paper will do. French Light papers also word very well,
as they are a bit bigger and somewhat thinner than Zig-Zags. Start with a ball, sprue
up. Wrap the paper around the ball, about a quarter of the way from the end. Moisten
the gum where it touches the ball, as well as the shorter end of the paper, and twist
the paper shut over the sprue. It is important to wrap the paper at a bit of an angle,
so that the longer end (away from the sprue) forms a cone. It doesn't have to be very
pronounced, just as long as the end farthest from the ball is of a smaller diameter
than the ball itself. Measure your powder (I use a cva flask with a 30 grain spout, it
actually throws 27 grains) and pour it into the open end of the paper. Don't worry
that the side is not sealed, the powder will expand the paper into the proper cone shape.
Grab the cartrige by the open end and give it a little shake to settle the powder.
Moisten the gum along the side of the cartrige, and give it another shake. Moisten
the entire paper past the level of the powder, and twist it shut, shaking slightle as
you go. When you are done, you should have a cone shaped cartrige with the ball on one
end, and tapering down slightly with the opposite end being flat. There will be
tightly twisted bits of paper protruding form each end, but just wait a minute or two
for the paper to dry, and snip them off with scissors. The finished product should be
tight enough that the powder will not move if you shake the cartridge. They fit
perfectly in a .45 acp cartrige box. Stored this way, I have yet to have one break on
me. With a little practice, one can load a black powder revolver as fast as one can
unload and reload a single action cartridge revolver. That's it. If you have problems
doing it, it's probably because I'm not explaining it very well."
I might add, I didn't have the best time of my life makin these. Way too much work for me ... I carry two spare cylinders with my Rem. I think I can beat the time on reloading these paper cartridges...HeHe, I will admit it's sure fun to do but I cast too many round balls to be rollin cartridges. Bad enough I gotta roll Top Cigarettes...
Smokin_Gun
I thought this looked familiar when one of the guys posted your site in Voy.com ... Great job on the Pics ...I like it well done. Below is what I had stored in my files Timuchin. It surely did look familar...LoL! ;oD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I've found Zig-Zag papers to be the best. Perfect size and
durable, but any regular size paper will do. French Light papers also word very well,
as they are a bit bigger and somewhat thinner than Zig-Zags. Start with a ball, sprue
up. Wrap the paper around the ball, about a quarter of the way from the end. Moisten
the gum where it touches the ball, as well as the shorter end of the paper, and twist
the paper shut over the sprue. It is important to wrap the paper at a bit of an angle,
so that the longer end (away from the sprue) forms a cone. It doesn't have to be very
pronounced, just as long as the end farthest from the ball is of a smaller diameter
than the ball itself. Measure your powder (I use a cva flask with a 30 grain spout, it
actually throws 27 grains) and pour it into the open end of the paper. Don't worry
that the side is not sealed, the powder will expand the paper into the proper cone shape.
Grab the cartrige by the open end and give it a little shake to settle the powder.
Moisten the gum along the side of the cartrige, and give it another shake. Moisten
the entire paper past the level of the powder, and twist it shut, shaking slightle as
you go. When you are done, you should have a cone shaped cartrige with the ball on one
end, and tapering down slightly with the opposite end being flat. There will be
tightly twisted bits of paper protruding form each end, but just wait a minute or two
for the paper to dry, and snip them off with scissors. The finished product should be
tight enough that the powder will not move if you shake the cartridge. They fit
perfectly in a .45 acp cartrige box. Stored this way, I have yet to have one break on
me. With a little practice, one can load a black powder revolver as fast as one can
unload and reload a single action cartridge revolver. That's it. If you have problems
doing it, it's probably because I'm not explaining it very well."
I might add, I didn't have the best time of my life makin these. Way too much work for me ... I carry two spare cylinders with my Rem. I think I can beat the time on reloading these paper cartridges...HeHe, I will admit it's sure fun to do but I cast too many round balls to be rollin cartridges. Bad enough I gotta roll Top Cigarettes...
Smokin_Gun
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Smokin_Gun
Member
Deleted
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Skins Or paper cartridges
Does any one have access to pictures of how the original packs of paper cartriges, or skins as they were called by some? I would like to see how they were packed in the brown paper wrapers. I would like to make some of the cartrige packs, for use in presentation cases for black powder revolveers. I have made fake packs, and have lables that I have made, but would like to make real ones, using the method that has been discribed in this thread. About twenty years ago, when I was gathering accessories to build a case for my Colt 1860 Army revolver and Stock, the Skins were available at the gun shows, the originals, and repos. They are not found today at the gun shows, nor are the other accessories. I will post a picture of the fake ones that I have build. They are the same size, and done with the same kind of paper that the originals were made with, but do not contain the cartridges. I could post a picture of how they look in a presintation case with the Gun & accessories if anyone is interested.
Thanks.
Chubbo
Does any one have access to pictures of how the original packs of paper cartriges, or skins as they were called by some? I would like to see how they were packed in the brown paper wrapers. I would like to make some of the cartrige packs, for use in presentation cases for black powder revolveers. I have made fake packs, and have lables that I have made, but would like to make real ones, using the method that has been discribed in this thread. About twenty years ago, when I was gathering accessories to build a case for my Colt 1860 Army revolver and Stock, the Skins were available at the gun shows, the originals, and repos. They are not found today at the gun shows, nor are the other accessories. I will post a picture of the fake ones that I have build. They are the same size, and done with the same kind of paper that the originals were made with, but do not contain the cartridges. I could post a picture of how they look in a presintation case with the Gun & accessories if anyone is interested.
Thanks.
Chubbo
Smokin_Gun
Member
Skins
Chubbo, Dixie Gun Works has some kits which are suppose to be like the originals.... I saw um in the catalog..get ahold of me if you need a part number... The term skins came from onion skins, what paper was made of.
Chubbo, Dixie Gun Works has some kits which are suppose to be like the originals.... I saw um in the catalog..get ahold of me if you need a part number... The term skins came from onion skins, what paper was made of.
Smokin_Gun
Member
Colt Dragoon
This don't need paper cartridges...
This don't need paper cartridges...
Yankee John
Member
This is the best tutorial on paper pistol cartridges that I have ever seen!
So, I went out last night and bought some Zig Zag papers and tried it myself. I pretty much followed the directions, but did one thing different; I wrapped the papers around a 7/16" wooden dowel and wetted the adhesive, to make the paper cylinders. After the paper cylinders were dry, I then inserted the .454 ball, carefully working the paper around the balls so as not to tear them. Worked great and went very quickly once I got the hang of it!
Here are a couple picks of my finished product.
John
So, I went out last night and bought some Zig Zag papers and tried it myself. I pretty much followed the directions, but did one thing different; I wrapped the papers around a 7/16" wooden dowel and wetted the adhesive, to make the paper cylinders. After the paper cylinders were dry, I then inserted the .454 ball, carefully working the paper around the balls so as not to tear them. Worked great and went very quickly once I got the hang of it!
Here are a couple picks of my finished product.
John
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warbirdlover
Member
But can you put a lubed wad between ball and powder?
The original paper cartridges made for revolvers used a lubricated bullet, and a paper tube was glued to the bullet below the lubricant. The tubes themselves were tapered, and slightly longer then the chamber - the idea being that the tube would rupture when the cartridge was rammed home, and spill a little powder around the back of the chamber.
I haven't tried it, but a felt wad, lubricated with wax behind the bullet might work without degrading the paper tube.
I haven't tried it, but a felt wad, lubricated with wax behind the bullet might work without degrading the paper tube.
wile326
Member
I am new to this board, though I would say hello and throw my 2 cents in. I shoot a lot of BP, cap and ball and cartridge. I have been using cigarette papers for years, I dont use any type of nipple pic and have never had a problem with them. Before I used to use the cigaretter paper I bought paper from Dixie Gun Works for my combustible cartridges, then I learned from an old time BP shooter that cigarette paper is already nitrated. Been using it ever since.
any ways Hello to all, seems like a good board
any ways Hello to all, seems like a good board
Beartracker
Member
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2005
- Messages
- 447
Smokin_Gun, I really like the "Petina" look of your gun. Thinking about doing that to my 1858 Rem.
The paper cartridges are great for some But I really don't like them or I should say my .44 Remington don't like them as I found out a few years ago. It shoots totally different , (low left) and the caps seems to jam the gun allot for some reason. Never have that problem without the paper cartridge. Had two that never went off and one hang fire out of about 24 shots.
I really liked the idea and I know they used them allot in the old days but I think I'll just load mine like I always have ( Never failed me yet) and just keep my extra cylinder loaded and in a cylinder pouch on my belt .
The paper cartridges are great for some But I really don't like them or I should say my .44 Remington don't like them as I found out a few years ago. It shoots totally different , (low left) and the caps seems to jam the gun allot for some reason. Never have that problem without the paper cartridge. Had two that never went off and one hang fire out of about 24 shots.
I really liked the idea and I know they used them allot in the old days but I think I'll just load mine like I always have ( Never failed me yet) and just keep my extra cylinder loaded and in a cylinder pouch on my belt
.FSCJedi
Member
Anyone try this with '51 Navy's yet? I've noticed that with the balls I use, it shaves a small ring of lead when I seat 'em. Will this be a problem since the paper will be around the ball as well?
I generally use some lube over the ball, but for more long term storage (like long hikes and whatnot), a wad between the powder and ball, then wrapped with paper seems like the way to go.
Also, someone mentioned using a dowel rod to make their papers first. What size should I use for the .36 cal. if I wanted to try this?
I generally use some lube over the ball, but for more long term storage (like long hikes and whatnot), a wad between the powder and ball, then wrapped with paper seems like the way to go.
Also, someone mentioned using a dowel rod to make their papers first. What size should I use for the .36 cal. if I wanted to try this?
rlltdjpr
Member
Tumuchin, thanks for the idea--I went to a "tobacco" (I don't think they aim to serve the tobacco crowd) shop today and rolled 36 cartridges--It will make this weekend's range trip much more enjoyable.
Pictures
Hi, Timuchin;
Those pictures were great. You make me green with envy! All the information was great also. I would give anything to be able to take pictures like you do with my digital camera. I would love to print out the article with the pictures included, but when I try, the pictures are blank and say immage not available. How would I go about getting them along with the article?
Chubbo
Hi, Timuchin;
Those pictures were great. You make me green with envy! All the information was great also. I would give anything to be able to take pictures like you do with my digital camera. I would love to print out the article with the pictures included, but when I try, the pictures are blank and say immage not available. How would I go about getting them along with the article?
Chubbo
Smokin_Gun
Member
Cig Papers/Nitrate
Cig papers are Nitrated paper... that's why they work so well.
Chubbo saving the pics... make a folder in My Documents/My Pictures/ Name it Cig Paper Carts... Rt. click on each pic select "Save as" label each one (example 1,2,3 ect) They'll all be in a folder together Save the verbage to a "Text File" and keep um together. I keep a Folder called "BP Notes" and this ones going in there too.
Good job Timuchin!
Can't save these pics like normal .jpegs, I don't know why. Must be a type of software only your camera uses. I have to save as then open with "Windows picture and fax viewer." But I did save them I just can't convert to use as Thumbnails.
Cig papers are Nitrated paper... that's why they work so well.
Chubbo saving the pics... make a folder in My Documents/My Pictures/ Name it Cig Paper Carts... Rt. click on each pic select "Save as" label each one (example 1,2,3 ect) They'll all be in a folder together Save the verbage to a "Text File" and keep um together. I keep a Folder called "BP Notes" and this ones going in there too.
Good job Timuchin!
Can't save these pics like normal .jpegs, I don't know why. Must be a type of software only your camera uses. I have to save as then open with "Windows picture and fax viewer." But I did save them I just can't convert to use as Thumbnails.
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Pictures
Hi, SG:
Thanks for the info ,on how to save the pictures. As you have already surmised, I am prety much computer iliterate. I am sure going to try this procedure. It is somthing that I have run across every since I have used, or misused a computer, and wanted to find out how to do this. I will probably bog down on it before I master this, but am going to try.
On another subject that you helped me with, I finally found two books listed on loading black powder cartridges. One is Loading the black powder cartridge by Paul Mathews, and the other, SPG Lubricants & Black powder Cartridges- A loading Primer by Mike Venturanio & Steve Garbe. Do you know anything about those books? I am going to get one or the other, or if there is a better one out there, I will get it. In a batch of stuff that I bought a while back, I found a brand new set of lyman carbite dies for .45 Colt, and a new unused 2 piece 12" BP drop tube for a LYman classic # 55 powder measure. In some of the sifting of information that I have heard, Lyman dos not recomend using their std. #55 measure for BP. Got to find out more about this. I can not find a listing by Lyman or RCBS for sets of dies in .38 Long colt, but Lee does. One of the suppliers of BP equipment, and supplies, states that the .38 Long Colt cartridge and the.38 Short colt is basically the .38spc. cartridge shortened. That makes me wonder if the .38 Long Colt cartridge could be loaded with .38 spc./.357 Mag. dies. I also load .357 Max. in mine by using a correctly dimentioned spacer.
Thanks again.
Chubbo
Hi, SG:
Thanks for the info ,on how to save the pictures. As you have already surmised, I am prety much computer iliterate. I am sure going to try this procedure. It is somthing that I have run across every since I have used, or misused a computer, and wanted to find out how to do this. I will probably bog down on it before I master this, but am going to try.
On another subject that you helped me with, I finally found two books listed on loading black powder cartridges. One is Loading the black powder cartridge by Paul Mathews, and the other, SPG Lubricants & Black powder Cartridges- A loading Primer by Mike Venturanio & Steve Garbe. Do you know anything about those books? I am going to get one or the other, or if there is a better one out there, I will get it. In a batch of stuff that I bought a while back, I found a brand new set of lyman carbite dies for .45 Colt, and a new unused 2 piece 12" BP drop tube for a LYman classic # 55 powder measure. In some of the sifting of information that I have heard, Lyman dos not recomend using their std. #55 measure for BP. Got to find out more about this. I can not find a listing by Lyman or RCBS for sets of dies in .38 Long colt, but Lee does. One of the suppliers of BP equipment, and supplies, states that the .38 Long Colt cartridge and the.38 Short colt is basically the .38spc. cartridge shortened. That makes me wonder if the .38 Long Colt cartridge could be loaded with .38 spc./.357 Mag. dies. I also load .357 Max. in mine by using a correctly dimentioned spacer.
Thanks again.
Chubbo
Smokin_Gun
Member
Hi, SG:
Thanks for the info ,on how to save the pictures. As you have already surmised, I am prety much computer iliterate. I am sure going to try this procedure. It is somthing that I have run across every since I have used, or misused a computer, and wanted to find out how to do this. I will probably bog down on it before I master this, but am going to try.
On another subject that you helped me with, I finally found two books listed on loading black powder cartridges. One is Loading the black powder cartridge by Paul Mathews, and the other, SPG Lubricants & Black powder Cartridges- A loading Primer by Mike Venturanio & Steve Garbe. Do you know anything about those books? I am going to get one or the other, or if there is a better one out there, I will get it. In a batch of stuff that I bought a while back, I found a brand new set of lyman carbite dies for .45 Colt, and a new unused 2 piece 12" BP drop tube for a LYman classic # 55 powder measure. In some of the sifting of information that I have heard, Lyman dos not recomend using their std. #55 measure for BP. Got to find out more about this. I can not find a listing by Lyman or RCBS for sets of dies in .38 Long colt, but Lee does. One of the suppliers of BP equipment, and supplies, states that the .38 Long Colt cartridge and the.38 Short colt is basically the .38spc. cartridge shortened. That makes me wonder if the .38 Long Colt cartridge could be loaded with .38 spc./.357 Mag. dies. I also load .357 Max. in mine by using a correctly dimentioned spacer.
Thanks again.
Chubbo
I have read excerts online from A Loading Primer, they were good. I typedyou more info but you haven't been back to Voy...I found you a .38Colt plus .38spl, and .45Colt. Lee makes .38Colt dies along with Rcbs, Lyman, ect. And as I had told you in Voy you can not use .357 in a BP Conversion only .38spl and they can not be used to load .38 Colt cases... .38 Colt is Colt, .38spl is Smith&Wesson a modern cartridge and was not used in the 19th Century. With BP you fill the case so a bullet presses against the powder, about 20gr with a .38LC. hate retyping everthing again in here. Next time you ask somethoing check back ok? See ya gotta get...
Thanks for the info ,on how to save the pictures. As you have already surmised, I am prety much computer iliterate. I am sure going to try this procedure. It is somthing that I have run across every since I have used, or misused a computer, and wanted to find out how to do this. I will probably bog down on it before I master this, but am going to try.
On another subject that you helped me with, I finally found two books listed on loading black powder cartridges. One is Loading the black powder cartridge by Paul Mathews, and the other, SPG Lubricants & Black powder Cartridges- A loading Primer by Mike Venturanio & Steve Garbe. Do you know anything about those books? I am going to get one or the other, or if there is a better one out there, I will get it. In a batch of stuff that I bought a while back, I found a brand new set of lyman carbite dies for .45 Colt, and a new unused 2 piece 12" BP drop tube for a LYman classic # 55 powder measure. In some of the sifting of information that I have heard, Lyman dos not recomend using their std. #55 measure for BP. Got to find out more about this. I can not find a listing by Lyman or RCBS for sets of dies in .38 Long colt, but Lee does. One of the suppliers of BP equipment, and supplies, states that the .38 Long Colt cartridge and the.38 Short colt is basically the .38spc. cartridge shortened. That makes me wonder if the .38 Long Colt cartridge could be loaded with .38 spc./.357 Mag. dies. I also load .357 Max. in mine by using a correctly dimentioned spacer.
Thanks again.
Chubbo
I have read excerts online from A Loading Primer, they were good. I typedyou more info but you haven't been back to Voy...I found you a .38Colt plus .38spl, and .45Colt. Lee makes .38Colt dies along with Rcbs, Lyman, ect. And as I had told you in Voy you can not use .357 in a BP Conversion only .38spl and they can not be used to load .38 Colt cases... .38 Colt is Colt, .38spl is Smith&Wesson a modern cartridge and was not used in the 19th Century. With BP you fill the case so a bullet presses against the powder, about 20gr with a .38LC. hate retyping everthing again in here. Next time you ask somethoing check back ok? See ya gotta get...
Jim101
Member
Great post! And pictures....Thanks, and I still have some papers from the 60's somewhere around the house.........
Jim
Jim
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