bigbore442001
Member
I found this thread to be really fascinating. I do believe that tommorrow morning, I will head out and pick up a package of Zig Zag rolling papers and make up a bunch of pre-loaded rounds for the Ruger Old Army.
Paper Cartridges, step by step photos..
- Thread starter timuchin
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6_gunner
Member
Well, I already converted my Rem' New Army to .45 colt and it'd be a shame to neglect that nice conversion cylinder.
I guess that means I'll have to go buy a Colt 1860 or a Walker so I can utilize this new information. Darn you all for making me spend more money!
I guess that means I'll have to go buy a Colt 1860 or a Walker so I can utilize this new information. Darn you all for making me spend more money!
[email protected]
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very interesting !! those papers come in packs of 32 i think what do you do with the leftovers? dont load black powder, but it was interesting!
TnRebel
Member
does one brand of rolling paper do better then the rest ?
Paper cartridges
A great thread which reflects how these weapons were probably used during the US civil disagreement.
I can't find cigarette papers wide enough to wrap the .45 ball of a 1860 Colt replica. Do you get wider papers in the US or were you using a .36 ball?
A great thread which reflects how these weapons were probably used during the US civil disagreement.
I can't find cigarette papers wide enough to wrap the .45 ball of a 1860 Colt replica. Do you get wider papers in the US or were you using a .36 ball?
Duncaninfrance
Member
Papers.
If you can't get any papers the right size either stick 2 together or PM me your address and I will mail you some packs of OCB Slim which are 4.25" x 1.75"
If you can't get any papers the right size either stick 2 together or PM me your address and I will mail you some packs of OCB Slim which are 4.25" x 1.75"
Paper cartridges
Thanks. Here in Cape Town, South Africa, we only seem to have one size of cigarette papers. It was a kind thought, but posting cig. papers from France to Cape Town does not seem a practical long term proposition.
What I have been doing, and which speeds up the reloading process quite a bit, is making paper cartridges for the powder only. These load quickly, then I put one of Gateofeo's lube pills and a ball on top, ram and cap and am back in business much faster than with a powder flask.
If we are not careful we are going to re-invent fixed ammunition!!
Thanks. Here in Cape Town, South Africa, we only seem to have one size of cigarette papers. It was a kind thought, but posting cig. papers from France to Cape Town does not seem a practical long term proposition.
What I have been doing, and which speeds up the reloading process quite a bit, is making paper cartridges for the powder only. These load quickly, then I put one of Gateofeo's lube pills and a ball on top, ram and cap and am back in business much faster than with a powder flask.
If we are not careful we are going to re-invent fixed ammunition!!
Warren
Member
And then if we do invent fixed ammo maybe we could invent some sort of tube like thing that would take the fixed ammo and load each piece one-by-one into a firing chamber.
This is a favorite thread of mine and I do not yet own any BP stuff.
I'd really love it if one of you guys could post a video of your shooting..reloading..shooting sequence.
This is a favorite thread of mine and I do not yet own any BP stuff.
I'd really love it if one of you guys could post a video of your shooting..reloading..shooting sequence.
Duncaninfrance
Member
DuncanSA
It's no problem. At lease you would have a couple of packs to try and also match to if you could.
PM your address and I will be happy to send you a couple of packs.
It's no problem. At lease you would have a couple of packs to try and also match to if you could.
PM your address and I will be happy to send you a couple of packs.
Ed Gallop
Member
I have been shooting a lot lately and experimented with the cigarette paper. I should have tested them before rolling so darn many of them (over 100 for 3 different revolvers). I concluded cigarette paper is not the paper to use. It is designed to burn slowly and that is a problem. I'll be looking for a thin, soft but tough paper that burns faster. The concept is great.
I found that large chunks of cigarette paper remains in the bottom of the cylinders about half the time, or more. I also found bits in various areas between the cylinder and frame or barrel but that wasn't a problem. Paper in the bottom had to be picked out though. It sometimes will block ignition if another paper cartridge is loaded on top of it. I had misfires I believe was caused by the paper, but after popping more caps it fired. Except for one occassion when a small hard packed piece (likely the twisted part) was lodged in the nipple. It was jammed so hard that I thought I was going to break the pick pushing on it.
I made a tapered wooden dowell perfect for wrapping cartridges. I wrapped the paper on the dowell, sealed it with a lick as if it was a joint ;-) and then twisted off the small end as I slid it off the dowell. I poured in the powder then dropped in the ball, seating itself in the cone. After twisting up against the ball tightly I tapped it on the table to move the powder to the ball and then twisted the small end tight enough that the twist could be cut almost completely off. Worked great, looked great, and loaded easily.
My son was shooting with me today and he came to the same conclusion. I'm interested in the opinions of others that have tried it. If I can find the right paper this method should work nicely, but I will not wrap so many next time. Ed.
I found that large chunks of cigarette paper remains in the bottom of the cylinders about half the time, or more. I also found bits in various areas between the cylinder and frame or barrel but that wasn't a problem. Paper in the bottom had to be picked out though. It sometimes will block ignition if another paper cartridge is loaded on top of it. I had misfires I believe was caused by the paper, but after popping more caps it fired. Except for one occassion when a small hard packed piece (likely the twisted part) was lodged in the nipple. It was jammed so hard that I thought I was going to break the pick pushing on it.
I made a tapered wooden dowell perfect for wrapping cartridges. I wrapped the paper on the dowell, sealed it with a lick as if it was a joint ;-) and then twisted off the small end as I slid it off the dowell. I poured in the powder then dropped in the ball, seating itself in the cone. After twisting up against the ball tightly I tapped it on the table to move the powder to the ball and then twisted the small end tight enough that the twist could be cut almost completely off. Worked great, looked great, and loaded easily.
My son was shooting with me today and he came to the same conclusion. I'm interested in the opinions of others that have tried it. If I can find the right paper this method should work nicely, but I will not wrap so many next time. Ed.
Duncaninfrance
Member
I have had the same experience as you Ed. You need to add a good combustible to the cartridge base so that it fires faster.
I must admit that I have gone back to loading a measured charge from a plastic container. Maybe I'll post a sequence of shots on a new thread if anyone is interested.
arcticap
Member
Buy the cheapest box of .22 LR rounds at Walmart, pull the bullets with some pliers and that should give you enough smokeless powder to try this out.
Duncaninfrance
Member
A solution!
Pardon the pun!!
Must try that out, thanks arcticap. I suppose any re-loading smokeless powder would do? Might make some cartridges for my Baker Rifle as well now that I have some balls of the right size.
Pardon the pun!!
Must try that out, thanks arcticap. I suppose any re-loading smokeless powder would do? Might make some cartridges for my Baker Rifle as well now that I have some balls of the right size.
Ed Gallop
Member
Very interesting, Arcticap. I'll have to try it. Have you been using cigarette paper? If not, whay paper have you been using? Ed.
HammerBite
Member
I just wanted everyone to know that while I was researching the development of the Dreyse needle guns I Googled "paper cartridge" and this thread came up numbers 1 and 2.
arcticap
Member
Ed,
I don't have any BP revolvers yet, but here's some .22 LR powder collected from misfires.
The thickness of the paper used is probably limited by the diameter of the chamber and ball being loaded, although I've read that typewriter (or copy) paper works for making paper rifle cartridges.
I don't have any BP revolvers yet, but here's some .22 LR powder collected from misfires.
The thickness of the paper used is probably limited by the diameter of the chamber and ball being loaded, although I've read that typewriter (or copy) paper works for making paper rifle cartridges.
Attachments
Ed Gallop
Member
Guess I didn't understand. I thought you were making paper cartridges for black powder shooting and using smokeless for the solution used to coat the paper only. Never had any amount of smokeless in a black powder gun.
There is a big difference in loading cartridges in the front and the back of a cylinder that is made to accept cartridges. I'd have to remove the cylinder and load on a stand with hard paper that doesn't give way. That would not be practical.
When loading paper cartridges, the ramrod packs the paper, tearing it open as the ball is forced in, exposing the powder to the vent. I've had to use 2 caps sometimes, and it may have been needed to burn through the paper if blocking the powder. I may give the solution method (using black powder instead) and see if the paper burns away.
Actually, I like the idea of paper cartridges for black powder but it is easy to load a revolver the traditional way. It would be nice to have the convenience of premeasured powder on hand (with ball or not), and it is a fun project, but not likely will it be my normal loading method. Ed.
There is a big difference in loading cartridges in the front and the back of a cylinder that is made to accept cartridges. I'd have to remove the cylinder and load on a stand with hard paper that doesn't give way. That would not be practical.
When loading paper cartridges, the ramrod packs the paper, tearing it open as the ball is forced in, exposing the powder to the vent. I've had to use 2 caps sometimes, and it may have been needed to burn through the paper if blocking the powder. I may give the solution method (using black powder instead) and see if the paper burns away.
Actually, I like the idea of paper cartridges for black powder but it is easy to load a revolver the traditional way. It would be nice to have the convenience of premeasured powder on hand (with ball or not), and it is a fun project, but not likely will it be my normal loading method. Ed.
arcticap
Member
I never used smokeless powder in a blackpowder gun either. I simply quoted post # 109 from this thread and posted a picture of what smokeless .22 powder looks like in response to a problem you experienced with paper cartidges that led you to say:
The heavier paper and procedures that I mentioned others use for loading paper rifle cartridges into the bore of muzzle loading rifles is described here:
http://webpages.charter.net/fam-strick/web/PaperPatch.htm
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Ed,
I've stopped twisting the bottom, now I only fold and glu with saliva. Three thickness of parer aren't a problem. No more missfire.
Fold is maybe less strong than twist, but I use 45acp case to protect paper during manufacturing and carrying.
I've also some unburned papers in the chamber, need a quick cleaning. Amazingly when I got a quite complete bottom, there is a nice burned hole in the center due to cap ignition.
I've stopped twisting the bottom, now I only fold and glu with saliva. Three thickness of parer aren't a problem. No more missfire.
Fold is maybe less strong than twist, but I use 45acp case to protect paper during manufacturing and carrying.
I've also some unburned papers in the chamber, need a quick cleaning. Amazingly when I got a quite complete bottom, there is a nice burned hole in the center due to cap ignition.
J.T. Gerrity
Member
These cartridges (loaded as target rounds with twenty grains of powder and fifteen grains of instant grits for filler) are made with cigarette paper. They work perfectly; never had a mis-fire, and load much faster than filling from a flask. The cig papers are pre-nitrated and need no other enhancement. I've tried them both ways... with and without the ball attached, and prefer not rolling the ball together with the powder; it's just faster to roll up several hundred of these without the ball, then add it at the range as I'm loading the cylinder. Just my own laziness, I guess. I twist the powder end shut sort of like a shotgun shell closure. Works great!
I twist the powder end shut sort of like a shotgun shell closure. Works great! Attachments
Duncaninfrance
Member
That's interesting JT, what gun are you loading?
DrLaw
Member
Well, so far, I have one done. Went to the local gas station/convenience store, got the strange looks and smiles, even after explaining what it was for.
Did the one in my car just before heading out to my kids' track meet.
This is interesting to try. I'll stop by again here after a few days when I shoot some of them to let you all know how they worked.
The Doc is out now.
Did the one in my car just before heading out to my kids' track meet.
This is interesting to try. I'll stop by again here after a few days when I shoot some of them to let you all know how they worked.
The Doc is out now.
DrLaw
Member
18 done. Boy does this take some doing. I'm hoping this will be worth it. Unlike most of my contemporaries, I have not had to work with cigarette papers before.
The Doc is going to bed now. Night all.
The Doc is going to bed now.
Night all.J.T. Gerrity
Member
I use these in the brass-framed '51 .44 Navy. It's easy to vary the "recipe" for my larger pistols: '60 Army (25gr BP, 10gr grits), Dragoon (40gr BP, 10gr grits) and the Walker (45gr BP, 15gr grits). I use a tube to make these rather than a dowel; easier to pour the filler and powder.
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DrLaw
Member
Wrapping it up!
I've figured out an easier way to wrap the paper. I use a 7.62 x 54R Russian cartridge. Wrap the paper around it and lick the gum about where the ball will go. The brass forms a taper and the ball falls in about the same position as shown on those photos on the first page of this thread. I can do a lot of tubes in a short time this way, and have already filled up an empty Speer
Bullet box with the cartridges.
By the way, this is for .44's. I'll have to figure out what would work for a .36, and if I really get crazy about this, a .31!
The Doc is out and happily loading now.
I've figured out an easier way to wrap the paper. I use a 7.62 x 54R Russian cartridge. Wrap the paper around it and lick the gum about where the ball will go. The brass forms a taper and the ball falls in about the same position as shown on those photos on the first page of this thread. I can do a lot of tubes in a short time this way, and have already filled up an empty Speer
Bullet box with the cartridges.
By the way, this is for .44's. I'll have to figure out what would work for a .36, and if I really get crazy about this, a .31!
The Doc is out and happily loading now.
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