FSCJedi
Member
I can't help but notice this thread is very .44 cal. friendly. Has anyone found a good tapered dowel or other tool to use for making .36 cal. paper cartridges? I don't exactly have access to a lathe.
Paper Cartridges, step by step photos..
- Thread starter timuchin
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FSCJedi
Member
Millwright
Member
Great Post !! I'll have to try this on.....
Right now, though, I'm more in need of the right way to 'roll y'r own' for a .58 Springfield...... Seeking suggestions on paper, lube, etc. >MW
Right now, though, I'm more in need of the right way to 'roll y'r own' for a .58 Springfield...... Seeking suggestions on paper, lube, etc. >MW
Tapering a dowell
Hi, FSCJedi:
If you don't have a lathe, as I do not anymore, take the right size dowell, that you can get at any Home Depot, or like store, and chuck the dowell in a drill press, or hand drill, fastened down. then using a file and sand paper taper the dowell with the file ,and sand paper. This is not as good a method as using a lathe, but it works in a pinch.
Thanks for the heads up on the paper cartridge book from Dixie.
I sure would like to see some of the old original cartridges, and their packaging, as I would like to make some of them to use in the presintation cases that I build for my Colt revolvers. I have made some lables and fake combustable cartridge packages, but I would like to make real ones.
Chubbo
Hi, FSCJedi:
If you don't have a lathe, as I do not anymore, take the right size dowell, that you can get at any Home Depot, or like store, and chuck the dowell in a drill press, or hand drill, fastened down. then using a file and sand paper taper the dowell with the file ,and sand paper. This is not as good a method as using a lathe, but it works in a pinch.
Thanks for the heads up on the paper cartridge book from Dixie.
I sure would like to see some of the old original cartridges, and their packaging, as I would like to make some of them to use in the presintation cases that I build for my Colt revolvers. I have made some lables and fake combustable cartridge packages, but I would like to make real ones.
Chubbo
FSCJedi
Member
Thanks Chubbo! That sounds like something I can actually do! And no prob about the Dixie book. Share and share alike, I say! 
Norseman_01
Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2007
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- 23
Packaging for original combustible cartridges...
"Ask, and ye shall recieve..."
http://www.thomaspublications.com/civilwarprojectiles/articles/wrappers_primer.htm
The 7th hole in the blocks (since it only says SIX cartridges and not SEVEN) is to hold the percussion caps.
"Ask, and ye shall recieve..."
http://www.thomaspublications.com/civilwarprojectiles/articles/wrappers_primer.htm
The 7th hole in the blocks (since it only says SIX cartridges and not SEVEN) is to hold the percussion caps.
Kimber1911_06238
Member
Excuse my ignorant question. When putting the paper cartridge in the cylinder, isn't it going to be a tight fit? Is it tight enough to break the paper where it is wrapped around the ball? I can see myself trying to jam the paper cartridge in and ripping the paper, spilling bp everywhere.
Docinfrance
Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
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- 7
Hi kimber.
I've been reading this thread from pge one (it was my introduction to this forum) and the way I see it the tolerances don't have to be too 'tight'.
Would not a slightly longer and thinner cartridge with the right load in it 'deform' slightly in the chamber when rammed home to take up the correct dimensions?
This would cause slight 'rippling' to the paper walls inside the chamber but not so much that I could see it effecting powder combustion.
Please tell me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty much a novice with BP.
I've been reading this thread from pge one (it was my introduction to this forum) and the way I see it the tolerances don't have to be too 'tight'.
Would not a slightly longer and thinner cartridge with the right load in it 'deform' slightly in the chamber when rammed home to take up the correct dimensions?
This would cause slight 'rippling' to the paper walls inside the chamber but not so much that I could see it effecting powder combustion.
Please tell me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty much a novice with BP.
.44walkersabot
member
That's pretty cool. Good photographs of the procedure to. I don't know if I could do it or not with my old blunt and awkward fingers but sometime within the next 2 weeks I'm going to give it a shot..
bigbadgun
Member
I have been trying different things and for my Walker I have done this and it works well.
Take a 7/16th dowl and dish out one end this is where the ball sits while rolling J&B papers are perfect sit the ball in the dish and roll paper around dowl pull paper off dowl ball is where it needs to be holds 50gr with room to spare and top it off with a wonder wad after loading works good and fast.
Take a 7/16th dowl and dish out one end this is where the ball sits while rolling J&B papers are perfect sit the ball in the dish and roll paper around dowl pull paper off dowl ball is where it needs to be holds 50gr with room to spare and top it off with a wonder wad after loading works good and fast.
fatmanforprez
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2008
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- 1
Lead doobies
I have been experimenting on getting my cartridge making skills down and i have found that the best form for me was an obvious and nearby one.
I took the thumbscrew off my little brass powder measure, it fits in the chamber perfectly and ensures I glue the right amount of zigzag. I make a tube with it a little loose on the measure (as it allows the ball to fit better but I still get the benefit of a solid form). i then take the last inch or so and I drop my ball in (measure still in tube) and adjust the position of the measure until the ball is just barely covered. I then wet and wrap the paper around the ball and remove the measure. I then put a twisted seal between the ball and powder. Fill with powder and grits and twist close.
With this method my cartridges slide smoothly in the cylinder, but do not extend above it and appear to seat the ball perfectly.
I now have a little .45ACP loading box filled with a few different variations of my paper cartridges awaiting a range trials with my 1851 Colt replica this weekend. I will post range results of course.
*** Range Report - I made 4 types of paper cartridges, one with ball grits and powder charge, one with ball and powder charge, one with just grits and powder charge, one with just the powder charge.
I found that the accuracy was not noticeably effected and loading the paper cartridges was dead simple. There was no problem with debris in the cylinder, however there was a noticeable amount of flaming paper blow back. I found that the loads with grits to ensure a fully packed cylinder did not differ noticeably from the loads without grits. There were very few (like 2 out of 24) hang fires with the balled cartridges, and the hang was just barely noticeable. The non-balled cartridges (which had a folded flat instead of twisted base) all had hang fires (I only tried 6 due to this).
In the future it will be balled cartridges only and i will try the nitro-laquer method to ensure lack of hang fires. I am also going to look into getting some better nitrated paper, perhaps making my own.
I have been experimenting on getting my cartridge making skills down and i have found that the best form for me was an obvious and nearby one.
I took the thumbscrew off my little brass powder measure, it fits in the chamber perfectly and ensures I glue the right amount of zigzag. I make a tube with it a little loose on the measure (as it allows the ball to fit better but I still get the benefit of a solid form). i then take the last inch or so and I drop my ball in (measure still in tube) and adjust the position of the measure until the ball is just barely covered. I then wet and wrap the paper around the ball and remove the measure. I then put a twisted seal between the ball and powder. Fill with powder and grits and twist close.
With this method my cartridges slide smoothly in the cylinder, but do not extend above it and appear to seat the ball perfectly.
I now have a little .45ACP loading box filled with a few different variations of my paper cartridges awaiting a range trials with my 1851 Colt replica this weekend. I will post range results of course.
*** Range Report - I made 4 types of paper cartridges, one with ball grits and powder charge, one with ball and powder charge, one with just grits and powder charge, one with just the powder charge.
I found that the accuracy was not noticeably effected and loading the paper cartridges was dead simple. There was no problem with debris in the cylinder, however there was a noticeable amount of flaming paper blow back. I found that the loads with grits to ensure a fully packed cylinder did not differ noticeably from the loads without grits. There were very few (like 2 out of 24) hang fires with the balled cartridges, and the hang was just barely noticeable. The non-balled cartridges (which had a folded flat instead of twisted base) all had hang fires (I only tried 6 due to this).
In the future it will be balled cartridges only and i will try the nitro-laquer method to ensure lack of hang fires. I am also going to look into getting some better nitrated paper, perhaps making my own.
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Smoke Stick by Five
Member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2008
- Messages
- 9
Try a AAA battery to roll papers on. insert ball or bullet. pour powder after dryin' in holder box. pack tight, pinch end and glue shut with Elmers white School glue. Load pointed end towards back, pick thru nipple before cappin' and bang goes the drum no hang fires with DWS caps (hotter spark)
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scalper
Member
Ditto. This is the greatest thread I have read anywhere in a long time.
Gonna get some cigarette papers now. Just need to figure out where to buy them since I really don't want to go to the local "Song and Bong"
Gonna get some cigarette papers now. Just need to figure out where to buy them since I really don't want to go to the local "Song and Bong"
DrLaw
Member
papers
Try any convenience store gas station.
And for an answer to a couple posts ago, the answer is no, tight fit aside, you will not have powder falling everywhere. Remember to taper the part of the paper where the powder is in. Ramming it into the cylinder will split the paper to expose the powder.
I've tried this with success in .44 and .36 so far. No real problems except for an occaisional bang --- BOOM as the cap ignites something, that then sets off the powder a fraction of a second later. Nothing that bothers accuracy, just something to notice because it is - unusual.
The Doc is out now.
Try any convenience store gas station.
And for an answer to a couple posts ago, the answer is no, tight fit aside, you will not have powder falling everywhere. Remember to taper the part of the paper where the powder is in. Ramming it into the cylinder will split the paper to expose the powder.
I've tried this with success in .44 and .36 so far. No real problems except for an occaisional bang --- BOOM as the cap ignites something, that then sets off the powder a fraction of a second later. Nothing that bothers accuracy, just something to notice because it is - unusual.
The Doc is out now.
I've had fun making paper cartridges, and fashioned some matchbook type boxes to store them in, such as this original box made by Merrill....
http://www.thomaspublications.com/civilwarprojectiles/articles/images/wrap-merrill.jpg
...that photo is on the same page of that Thomaspublications link which Norseman_01 posted (thanks)
These are a few of the boxes I've made to hold the paper cartridges....
The matchbook style is great, because you don't have to tear it open to use it, and they serve as carrying boxes for the cartridges into the field or the range, or can be used in the display case,...looking just like the originals using various copies of original labels.
I made my own nitrated paper for the cartridges, using Bugler cig. paper soaked in solution of Potassium Nitrate bought on eBay. I used tapered dowels making them , following Sgt.John Chapman's instructions in his tutorial on this webpage....
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=326.0
That's on the Open Range site, Blackpowder Reference Library. There's some good info there , which will add to all the input which has been brought to this great thread.
http://www.thomaspublications.com/civilwarprojectiles/articles/images/wrap-merrill.jpg
...that photo is on the same page of that Thomaspublications link which Norseman_01 posted (thanks
)These are a few of the boxes I've made to hold the paper cartridges....
The matchbook style is great, because you don't have to tear it open to use it, and they serve as carrying boxes for the cartridges into the field or the range, or can be used in the display case,...looking just like the originals using various copies of original labels.
I made my own nitrated paper for the cartridges, using Bugler cig. paper soaked in solution of Potassium Nitrate bought on eBay. I used tapered dowels making them , following Sgt.John Chapman's instructions in his tutorial on this webpage....
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=326.0
That's on the Open Range site, Blackpowder Reference Library. There's some good info there , which will add to all the input which has been brought to this great thread.
dmb3006
Member
.36 CAP&BALL combustible for 1858 REM
I just had to try to make some of these paper cartridges.Looking around the shed for something to roll the tissure paper I was using.I pulled the rod out of my powder trickler;and used it.Had kids school glue.and made 12 I can't wait to try them out
I just had to try to make some of these paper cartridges.Looking around the shed for something to roll the tissure paper I was using.I pulled the rod out of my powder trickler;and used it.Had kids school glue.and made 12 I can't wait to try them out
scalper
Member
I just found a guy on EBay selling French Light rolling papers in a huge box of 24 packages (30+ papers) $17 with free shipping. Heck of deal, and even saved the embarassment of explaining the reason for my purchase to a live clerk. LOL
OLDELM - those little boxes you made are really cool. Did you photocopy an old label or something? They look like a conversation generator at the range, that is for sure!
LOLOLDELM - those little boxes you made are really cool. Did you photocopy an old label or something? They look like a conversation generator at the range, that is for sure!
Mike Weber
Member
Great Thread!
I'm in the process of making some nitrated paper cartridges for my .58 Cal. guns. I'm using Onionskin typing paper otherwise known as tracing paper. I'm currently awaiting delivery of my potasium nitrate. I made an aluminum dowell for forming the cartridges on one of the lathes at work. I really like those cartridge boxes. Where did you find a copy of the original labels? I might like to try making some cartridge boxes for my .44 Percussion revolvers. Those boxes look great.
I'm in the process of making some nitrated paper cartridges for my .58 Cal. guns. I'm using Onionskin typing paper otherwise known as tracing paper. I'm currently awaiting delivery of my potasium nitrate. I made an aluminum dowell for forming the cartridges on one of the lathes at work. I really like those cartridge boxes. Where did you find a copy of the original labels? I might like to try making some cartridge boxes for my .44 Percussion revolvers. Those boxes look great.
scalper
Member
Paper cartridge labels
I have attached several of the labels that I am using on my paper cartridge boxes since I don't have copies of the real thing. If you do use them, try printing them on an specialty paper that is tinted brown for an older appearance. I have 31 cal, 36 cal, and 44 cal. Let me know if you want any other calibers as I can easily change the text and then reprint the PDF. They may not be authentic, but it was as good as I could do. Enjoy!
I have attached several of the labels that I am using on my paper cartridge boxes since I don't have copies of the real thing. If you do use them, try printing them on an specialty paper that is tinted brown for an older appearance. I have 31 cal, 36 cal, and 44 cal. Let me know if you want any other calibers as I can easily change the text and then reprint the PDF. They may not be authentic, but it was as good as I could do. Enjoy!
Attachments
Mike Weber
Member
Scalper:
Thanks for the labels. I'll see what I can come up with for specialty paper to produce an antique look.
Thanks for the labels. I'll see what I can come up with for specialty paper to produce an antique look.
loboloco
Member
paper cartridges
Howdy to all. Just joined this forum, mostly for the info I'm finding about bp shooting.
I found a brass frame Pietta Rem 1858 at a pawn shop in Arizona last year, but the derned local shop didn't carry any supplies for it. Recently, here in Denver, I have been putting things together piece by piece, and I was wondering if a wonder wad is a good idea in these here cartridges.
While I'm wonderin' about supplies, is Shockey's Gold FFFg a suitable powder, or should I get some pyrodex? And has anyone here tried the 30 grn pellets? Are they worth the money, or should I just roll my own, er..."lead doobies" - (fatmanforprez) One more thing...does a sharpie marker make a better taper than a 7/16" in dowel rod?
Any and all responses are greatly appreciated - Lobo Loco
Howdy to all. Just joined this forum, mostly for the info I'm finding about bp shooting.
I found a brass frame Pietta Rem 1858 at a pawn shop in Arizona last year, but the derned local shop didn't carry any supplies for it. Recently, here in Denver, I have been putting things together piece by piece, and I was wondering if a wonder wad is a good idea in these here cartridges.
While I'm wonderin' about supplies, is Shockey's Gold FFFg a suitable powder, or should I get some pyrodex? And has anyone here tried the 30 grn pellets? Are they worth the money, or should I just roll my own, er..."lead doobies" - (fatmanforprez) One more thing...does a sharpie marker make a better taper than a 7/16" in dowel rod?
Any and all responses are greatly appreciated - Lobo Loco
scrat
Member
i guess i have to give this a shot again. last time i thought they looked great. but when i went to load them. the powder bunched up and would not load correctly. too thick i believe
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