Patrol rifle advice

[Unemployedshooter]

My department is running surplus M-16s with integral carry handles and basic handguards. We recently acquired some surplus Aimpoint M2s and are looking for options to mount on a budget. Optics came with basic mount.

"Gooseneck" style rails that attach at carry handle and drop down to handguard

VS

Basic carry handle rails.

VS

Railed handguards like the MFT M44L (POA shift?)

I assume the chief wants co-witness, so the basic carry handle rail concerns me. Optics would be too high over bore.

Any experience/input would be appreciated. Thank you

 

[Gordon]

Aimpoint M2 stock low ring on one of these is very nice and has see under for the irons
http://www.smithenterprise.com/spec/1913-STANAG_Mnt_Retail.pdf

 

[4thPointOfContact]

No 'direct' experience, but I'd go with the gooseneck style as there is very little chance of it losing zero from the handguards being removed for occasional cleaning.

They're probably getting harder and harder to find so I'd make a decision without too much delay.

 

[dogmush]

Gooseneck or handguard. Definitely not a carry handle mount. I've used all three and the carry handle is way to high.

I would go with the handguard, personally as it's still lower, and a decent one doesn't shift.

But gooseneck work as well.

 

[Gordon]

I used a Swan goose neck with an Aimpoint M2 since 1998 for intense training. The Swan goose neck is a secure one but too complex and heavy . The Smith handle mount is bomb proof, milspec and with the factory aimpoint M2 low ring is very usable at the right height and you can look under it easily.

 

[Unemployedshooter]

Thank you all for the input.

 

[Jeff White]

The gooseneck is the best option that you listed. I used the GI gooseneck when the Aimpoint (as the M68 CCO) was first issued in the Army. Nothing at all wrong with it.

 

[Jenrick]

We've had good luck with running railed HG's and forward mounting the Aimpoints on the 20" we have in service. We don't teach removal of the handguard as a user serviceable item though, so we don't have the problem of people loosing zero as much.

-Jenrick

 

[Gordon]

here is an example of what I shared (with $70 Smith enterprise mount dept price) using the M2 factory mount. It is NOT "too high" as it is a red dot sight with lots of eye latitude :banghead:
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...0fZQsiVLjaFjOMyYku5nlptXSXtKdPMQ7-ZsTaLD6t7v7
The goose neck longer and heavier. I see that GG&G no longer manufactures there's so can't get bomb proof anymore . Also if something happens to the aimpoint that does not have a quick detach mount or if there is no time then the co witnessed iron sights are worthless.
http://www.militarywarfighter.com/v/vspfiles/photos/Aimpoint-10174-3T.jpg

 

[OpticsPlanet]

There certainly aren't as many options as there used to be, with all the flat tops.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/millett-m16-ar15-handle-picatinny-style-drop-front-mount.html

Also if something happens to the aimpoint that does not have a quick detach mount or if there is no time then the co witnessed iron sights are worthless.

If the M2 craps out - your irons aren't worthless, you will still be able to see the irons, you just won't see the red dot. The M2 doesn't suddenly become opaque and block your view.

This is precisely why I prefer absolute cowitness over lower 1/3 cowitness - my head position and cheek weld are the same, optic or no optic.

Mark H.

 

[Gordon]

I meant like your M2 on the factory not quick detach mount gets bashed sideways or the lens gets covered with mud or something on a goose neck and you got your shot ! With the Smith Enterprises carry handle mount no sweat because you shift your eye position 1/2" and have unobstructed irons.Also one could put a higher powered optic or a FLIR on the pic rails of the carry handle mount if needed with little hassle. Versitality a dept with carry handles could use I think.

 

[dogmush]

here is an example of what I shared (with $70 Smith enterprise mount dept price) using the M2 factory mount. It is NOT "too high" as it is a red dot sight with lots of eye latitude

Obviously different folks are different, and I can only share my experiences, and those of the folks that Have been around me.

But I've used a carry handle mount and M68 on an M16A2. It's too high. It's not the eye position that's the issue, but the chin weld with the stock when shooting while standing or kneeling. It is just a pain to use. Goose neck was better liked by my entire unit.

As usual YMMV.

 

[Gordon]

Like I said I used the GG&G mount on a handle AR carbine since about 96 I think with an M68 (M2 Aimpoint) for training classes with Scot Reitz and Louis Awerbuck . By 2002 or so I changed to the flat top platform I still have the upper with the GG&G goose neck but have it mounted with a small russian NOD on the top pic rail (which IS too high for a good cheek weld) and a Vortec SPARC on the goose neck for the likely chance the NOD screws up. I have a Smith Enterprises handle mount on a Colt Government 20" Ar from about 1990 that I used the M68 in the low factory ring satifactorly with a decent spot weld. That Smith mount now holds a Vortex Viper 1-4x and I still can toch my cheek to the stock lightly. The Smith mount is pretty low as far as carry handle mounts go.
Of course all my newer ARs are flattops which is better all around.I just don't like goose neck mounts and neither did my trainers

 

[Unemployedshooter]

Update

I found a "military surplus" gooseneck on Ebay and it worked great. Have not shot with it, but seems stable.

The nice folks at Mission First Tactical are sending us a railed handguard to try.

Bad news: The gooseneck setup does not fit our long guns racks between the seats. Plus, I don't think the railed handguard setup will fit either. Looks like we're getting different racks. LOL