Pawl Jobs on S&W revolvers

[patentnonsense]

I've just bought a matched pair of N-frames (model 57s in gorgeous nickel, I couldn't resist), and one of them has a little rotational slop in the cylinder - maybe .005 L-R total travel, and shows a lot of vertical stringing - so I'm guessing I need a pawl replacement?
1) How do you know you need a pawl job?
2) How many times in a revolver's life can you do a pawl job?
3) What's ballpark cost?

Please don't be shy about just pointing me to the right FAQ-

Thanks,

 

[Dave Sample]

I am not sure what you are talking about because I haven't spoke S&W for a long time. If I were you I would send the gun back to S&W and let them fix it. If a "Pawl" is like a bolt that holds the cylinder in place while you fire the gun, then yes, it can be replaced failry easily. It has to be fitted, though, so I would have someone who is competent do the job. Sounds like you have a nice pair there!

 

[Dave Sample]

Ok I found the "Smith Speak Book" and they call that part a "Cylinder Stop". According to my S&W shop manual, it is a bearcat to fit right. It has to be fitted in four directions and may have to be smacked also. It does have a small adjustment shelf on it, to bring it up into the cylinder notch, but it has a lot to do with the tiimng of the gun. It has to hold that cylinder in the exact right position for it to line up with the chambers so it doesn't spit or lose accuracy. Milt Morrison of QPR could do it, but Don Williams could also fit it. There are a lot of smiths that work on these kind of guns. I don't. I would say it is not a "Do it Yourself" job.The trigger drops it up momentarily, and then lets it go and it rides around the cylinder untril it hits the next notch Almost like a Ruger, except they probably call it something else. The 1873 types that I still work on have a much better system that doesn't ring the cylinder unless you don't know how to handle them. You never drop the hammer from half cock on an 1873 type unless you want those ugly rings around the roseys.

 

[patentnonsense]

Thanks, that's quite helpful, and yes, I'm very clear that revolver timing is not something I want to tinker with!

 

[bountyhunter]

For the record ".005" rotational play" in lockup is not bad at all. I've seen new guns near that, and my old model 686 had at least 3X that much before I installed a new stop.

Numrich still sells oversized stop bolts which is what you have to use to eliminate the rotational play. They have to be fitted by a gunsmith.

 

[Jim K]

I agree that .005 play is not a problem with a S&W revolver, but I can't associated rotational play with vertical stringing of shots. I think there may be more to it than that.

Vertical stringing in a revolver is more often a result of resting the gun barrel (don't), the way the gun is held, a loose sight, or not getting a consistent sight picture.

Jim

 

[Dave Sample]

I should have mentioned that I always check the rotory motion with the hammer at full cock because that is where it is important. Sometimes they tend to tighten up there.

 

[Jim K]

I have mentioned before that some rotational play in an S&W cylinder is normal; S&W says the bullet itself lines up the cylinder as it enters the forcing cone. Some folks replied that no cylinder should have any play and one fellow said he would throw away any gun of his that did. I told him to throw it my way.

The old Colt system was often praised for cylinder lockup because the lower tooth on the hand forced the cylinder against the cylinder bolt. That sounded good, but after some use, the cylinder could actually be forced out of alignment by the same mechanism. The S&W hand rotates the cylinder, then slips up past the ratchet; in order to do so, there has to be a small amount of clearance, and that amount grows some with use.

Obviously, there can be too much play and then it is time to replace the hand, the cylinder stop/bolt or even the cylinder. But a barely perceptible "wiggle" is of no concern. Of course if it really bothers anyone, I will let them toss the gun in my yard so they are relieved of a concern.

Jim

 

[Old Fuff]

I should have mentioned that I always check the rotory motion with the hammer at full cock because that is where it is important. Sometimes they tend to tighten up there.

I always check the lock-up when the trigger is being held all of the way back and the hammer is all of the way forward (not rebounded). Why so? Because this is the position the lockwork will be in when the cartridge is fired, and the only time that the lock-up is really important.

Rotory motion is a function between the hand and ratchet. If at the end of a stroke the hand wedges against a ratchet tooth there is a fit problem that needs correction because it can cause the trigger to stick and not go forward when its released.

A sometimes overlooked cause of excessive rotational movement is a sprung yoke. The more play between the yoke and frame, the more the cylinder's rotational movement can be after lock-up.

I'm with Jim. Anyone that wants to trash a revolver can throw it my way too.

 

[patentnonsense]

Thanks guys, very helpful comments -

I don't know how to quantify the rotational slop, but I know that this gun seems to have a little more than usual. (After reading the FAQ, I've started checking endplay and rotary play with every used revolver I pick up.)
I got a pair of model 57s, one 4" and one 6" - and I'm not a great shooter, but I got a group from one which was nearly one-hole, and a 6" group from the other, so I suspect it's not just me!

But I'll take it to my local Smith smith and see what they say - thanks,

 

[Dave Sample]

Jim brought up a real good point about the old 1873 type cylinder lock up that I haver corrected by installing a hammer stop that stops the hammer dead right after full cock so the hand does not try to keep turning the cylinder while the bolt has it locked. This stop is always part of my standard tune up and toughens up these old babies that are used is CASS. John Taffin and Rick Hacker have written about this in magazine articles and so have I , so it's no secret. It is in SHOOT! Magazine in a three part article I did on Cowboy Action Tune Ups and the gun we used turned into the Johhny Mack Brown that they raffled off. It is a honey and my pal Bull Chip bought it back so we have it near here now. The hammer stop makes a big improvement in any SA Colt Sixshooter.