Pediatrician nonsense

[XDKingslayer]

The doctor then looks at my wife and says, "even if you teach him abouth them, he's still going to play with them."

You wife should have simply stated that statement can apply to many things with little boys and that the bright side is the guns won't make his palms hairy.

On the serious side, this is simply another intrusion. If you teach your child about guns and gun safety, then you also need to teach them about how the other side of the coin is trying to take this away from us and that it's none of anyones business when he is asked these questions. Teach your child to tell them to talk to you.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

On my last visit to an MD (and my first in several ears) I was surprised to fin a number of questions that flowed naturally as a part of your health history (not a separate sheet of paper) with questions such as,
"Do you always wear your seatbelt?"
"Are there any guns in your home?"
I think there was a sex-related question in there too...safe sex or what ever.

I think this is more a requirement imposed by insurance companies. I guess they are right that if you have a gun in your home you are more likely to have a gun related accident than someone who does not. But this is like saying "you are more likely to fall down the stairs of a home that actually has stairs than one that has none". Does this mean it is unsafe to own a two story home? It just doesn't provide a true factual analysis of risk in my opinion.

XDKingslayer..unlike gun accidents the hairy palm thing is unavoidable with young boys.

 

[waterhouse]

I am all for allowing them supervised access but never unsupervised. There is no such thing as a "gun proof child".

That's great that you have all that alphabet soup after your name, but when you make a blanket statement like you are going to be wrong most of the time.

I had a gun rack no my wall from the age of 6 years. At that time it had a single shot .22 and a BB gun. Long before these were on the wall gun education started. I wasn't the only kid in the neighborhood with a similar setup, and pretty much every male in my extended family (over 16 male cousins on my mom's side) had a .22 in their room from the age of 6 on.

There is such a thing as a gun proof child. It may or may not be the norm, but they exist.

I would question the parenting skill of anyone that felt otherwise.

Go ahead and question it. My parents did just fine.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Next time they start asking about your guns, hand them the attached document. If nothing else it's pretty much guaranteed to get the point across.

Brad

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Waterhouse, what you stated still does not mean you were "gun proof"...no child is "gun proof". End of story. If you close your eyes and cross a busy street and make it to the other side it makes you lucky...not "car proof".

 

[waterhouse]

Please define "gun proof" then.

I know for a fact that I can get past a lock on a gun. Most are very simply devices. I wouldn't have tried though, because I had been taught that if it was locked up I should leave it that way. I believe it is better, as someone else posted, to gun proof the child than the child proof the gun.

If I close my eyes and cross the street that doesn't mean anything other than I'm an idiot. If I open my eyes, look both ways, cross at the corners between the white lines when the light shows that it is safe to cross, then I have been "car proofed" and I am using the knowledge that my parents taught me to avoid getting hit by a car.

It isn't a fluke that we all grew up without having gun accidents. We were well taught, and I would argue that we were "gun proofed" but perhaps we are using different terminology, so a definition is needed.

 

[grimjaw]

What other health and safety topics did the pediatrician cover?

Vehicle safety? Sharp objects? Potential hazardous cleaning chemicals? Swingsets? Small objects that ought not be placed inside ear/nose/throat? Etc?

If these were not covered, seems like an agenda, and seems like you might check out other pediatricians.

jmm

 

[JohnBT]

Sign me up with the crowd who simply can't believe we survived childhood. It must have been luck and not the good parenting and role models.

John

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Waterhouse, what I mean when i say no child is "gun proof" is that no child is beyond making a mistake with a firearm. That is why they should be supervised at all times when they have one in their hands. Also no child is above playing with a gun they have unsupervised access to one...especially if they are showing of to or being coerced by a friend. It is ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry where a childs like is concerned. Does anyone dispute this? I doubt anyone could unless they are blinded by a radical stance that they refuse to evaluate. Eddie Eagle states that a child should be educated but you still have to remember that they are still children and will act as such. So guns should always be as inaccessible as possible when unattended.

 

[waterhouse]

Waterhouse, what I mean when i say no child is "gun proof" is that no child is beyond making a mistake with a firearm. That is why they should be supervised at all times when they have one in their ands. Also no child is above playing with a gun theyy have unsupervised access to...especially if they are showing of to a friend or being coerced by one.

Again, WRONG. I was a child. I was above "playing" with any of my guns. I was also strong enough willed that my friends couldn't coerce me into playing with them. I was told the consequences of these sorts of actions (having my guns taken away) and chose to not break the rules. As I said, you can argue all you want about statistics and psychiatry, but I am living proof that a child is capable of being responsible with easy access to a gun. I don't know whether I am the minority or majority, but I do know that I was a kid who grew up with a gun in my room, and I know others that were raised in the same atmosphere who also did not do as you say children are required to do.

Eddie Eagle states that a child should be educated but you still have to remember that they are children and will act as such.

Or I could treat every person, even children, as an individual instead of trying to fit that individual into a category defined in a psychology text. A lot of the children I know are more respectful of firearms than some adults I see at the range.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Waterhouse...Once again...just because it did not happen to you does not disprove the rule. Stop and think about what you are saying. By all means, if you feel that your child is not worth taking every precaution for be my guest to do as you wish. Do not try to make it sound safe though because it is just not. I survived having drano under the sink but I would not call it a safe practice to leave it there if you have a small child.

 

[waterhouse]

Waterhouse...Once again...just because it did not happen to you does not disprove the rule. Stop and think about what you are saying.

Your rule is that EVERY child will play with as gun if given access:

no child is above playing with a gun theyy have unsupervised access to

I am stating that this "rule" did not apply to me.

If the rule is that it applies to every child, and in reality it doesn't apply to one child, than that does in fact disprove the rule.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I did not say "ALL children will"..I said "children will" as a generic reference stating that children are capable of doing the opposite of what taught regardless of how hard you try to teach them otherwise. It is just part of being a child. Stop play games with semantics and address the actual message.

 

[Sgt.Slappy]

Actually PP, my point in mentioning the Eddie Eagle program, and the fact it is taught to children, was to illustrate that:

A) A change in behavior can be affected in the children so as to lessen the danger of firearm accidents in households with both children and firearms.

B) Eddie the frikken Eagle doesn't spend his time lecturing rifles, gunsafes, or adults.

A "gun-proof" child isn't immune from harm by firearms. Rather, he or she is made aware of the danger of that type of tool, and/or that only an adult has the authority to grant access to the dangerous tool's use.

(Oooops, I didn't mean to sound angry here... I'm not angry in the least.)

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Sgt.Slappy...I agree completely with your point. I just added that Eddie Eagle also states that one of the biggest points of the education is to make guns inaccessible to children when not supervised. Anyone that thinks training alone will prevent a child from being a child is fooling themselves. It is better to be safe than to be sorry. If you have small children teach them about guns and lock the guns in the safe when they are not in use. If you have a loaded HD weapon buy a small finger safe to keep it secure. I love my firearms but I am sure I would love my children more. The fact of the matter is that the extra second or two delay caused by a finger safe is very unlikely to ever cause a problem. if they burst into your bedroom armed and you are sleeping you are dead. you are more likely to hear a noise, retrieve the weapon and then investigate.

 

[cambeul41]

Brad Johnson

Thank you for the Physicians Notice. I have a sister who needs it. I have another such thing, but it is not so concise and well done.

 

[waterhouse]

I did not say "ALL children will"..I said "children will" as a generic reference stating that children are capable of doing the opposite of what taught regardless of how hard you try to teach them otherwise.

Also no child is above playing with a gun theyy have unsupervised access to.

Call it semantics if you wish. If you go read my first post in this thread, all I was taking issue with was your blanket statement that there is no such thing as a gun proof child, and your implication therein that any parent who thought otherwise was doing something wrong. This seems ridiculous to me, as I was gun proofed and my parents were great parents.

If you reword your statement to say "Children, as a group, are curious and often do not do as they are supposed to, and you should keep this in mind when determining what level of access to dangerous items you will grant your children," that would have been fine with me.

 

[Zundfolge]

This is why gun owners need to FIGHT against any form of Socialized Medecine ... once the government is paying for YOUR healthcare they OWN YOU.

Then this minor annoyance becomes a visit from social services or something.

 

[afasano]

In this area guns aren't not the problem beer is, Lamar Outdoor adverising is getting richer because of it and some lady is all worried about my guns.

 

[Hook686]

JOHN WAYNE HATED GUNS !!!! ?????

Today, 10:57 AM #2
V4Vendetta
Senior Member



Sometimes the people you thought you knew & liked turn out to be anti-gun. I used to like John Wayne, Paul Newman, Robert Redford, etc until I found out they all hate guns .
__________________
"Guns don't kill people. The government does."

"Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose."

"That's what they want you to think."

Dale Gribble, King of the Hill.

Nothing says "GET OUT OF MY GARDEN!", like a Mossberg.

Within each one of us there is a inch of hope, of will, of integrity. We must never let it go. For within it, we are free.

I thought Rock Hudson destroyed my faith in man .... geeeezzzz Louise this is a heart break.

 

[LJWebster1]

Great responses from everyone. I am not, nor have I ever, supported the notion that guns should be left unsecured where children can have access to them, especially if they can also have ready access to ammunition. For the same reason, I keep dangerous chemicals and prescription drugs out of reach. My complaint with the doctor was his focus on guns. He didn't ask if my son rode in a car (2,591 children dead), played by a pool (943 dead), played with matches (593 dead), played with dry cleaning bags (601 dead from mechanical suffocation), had access to dangerous foods, chemicals or drugs (169 dead from ingestion of food or objects), but ONLY asked about guns (86 dead). Seems like when you add up all the other ways my kid could die, this doctor focused on the one area that accounts for only 1.76% of the listed childhood deaths. I didn't see any statistics on accidents such as falling off a bicycle, down the stairs, or rollerblading, but I would assume those are much higher than 86 per year as well. Finally, I'd like to find statistics of how many children die each year from adverse drug reactions, vaccinations and medical malpractice. I'd be willing to bet it is more than 86 per year. Maybe my gun dealer should be asking my son if he visits the doctor!!

 

[Nitrogen]

Never attribute to evil that which can be attributed to ignorance.

When dealing with Anti's, remember this:

Most people who are Antis have grown up hearing anti-gun propaganda. They see the "kids die from gun accidents" commercials. They hear about gun violence every night on the news. Most people don't have an informed opinion, because they havn't actually decided to learn about guns. They hear on TV and read in the paper that guns are bad, and they decide so. Since most people aren't really interested in owning or using guns, they just file that little bit away in their brain, and continue watching American Idol.

Let me give you an example:

"That woman who filed the lawsuit because she spilled hot coffee in her lap is a perfect example of frivolous lawsuits, an I can't believe she won so much money!"

How many people on this board agree with this statement?

Now read this:
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
or this:
http://www.osmond-riba.org/lis/essay_mcdonalds.htm

 

[Sgt.Slappy]

Maybe my gun dealer should be asking my son if he visits the doctor!!

LOL!

Now that would be something to see!

 

[chas_martel]

PlayboyPenguin,

There is a major flaw in your argument about "no child is gun safe".

The flaw is that you cannot prove a negative. And that is what you
are trying to do by saying "no child is gun safe".

What you should have said is "all kids are gun safe" and then
find an example of one that is not.

QED.

 

[acdodd]

Guns vs Dr.

Physicians
The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
Accidental deaths per physician are 0.171. (Statistics courtesy of U.S.
Dept. of Health &Human Services)

Now think about this:

Gun Owners
The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is1,500.
The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188.
Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than
gun owners.
Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do"
Fact: Not everyone has a gun, but almost everyone has at least one doctor.
Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors
before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!

Out of concern for the public at large, I have withheld the statistics on
lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek medical
attention.

Don't know if the facts are all correct but it makes you think.
AC