Pellet rifle suggestion for squirrel control

[GLOOB]

How far are you shooting? Is it windy? Will you take the shot from the same spot/window every time?

If you do not have a consistent shooting position, springers are very difficult to rely on, when the moment comes.

When pest shows up, pneumatic is the one I rely on. This means my crosman 2100 or 2200 pistol. Often with only 2 pumps, if close enough. These pump pistols have taken more pests than any of my springers. Whenever I used to have a Crosman 560 (w/e the cheapest one they got!), that was pretty killer, but think they are all smoothbore, now.

Put it this way... with pneumatic, I have never missed a pest. I know I can hit or not. I have never even taken shot with a springer on a live animal. But whenever I pick up springer after X months, my first shot is guaranteed crap. And with no rest, I can hold a pneumatic pistol or rifle better than a heavy springer. With an improvised rest, I wouldn't dare take a shot with a springer.. No clue where it will go.

With consistent shooting rest and distance, different story. Take your pic and get good with it.

 

[Kookla]

Sorry- I shot targets at 10 meters, not 15.

With a red ryder? That's fantastic!

 

[Kookla]

In addition to what I said earlier, I've had great luck using a Benjamin 392 with a peep sight. Most of the shots were well within 20 yards.

 

[cobalt327]

With a red ryder? That's fantastic!

I have to apologize because unfortunately my guesstimate of the accuracy and the reality of it didn't align worth a hoot! Possibly part of it was because I had been shooting at 5m like they often do at Tom Gaylord's blog at Pyramyd Air. Anyway, details of what I actually got for accuracy @ 10m, using several different stock and modified Daisy BB guns is detailed HERE. I haven't formally tried all the BBs I bought for accuracy testing, just the Walmart zinc plated Daisy BBs. I did shoot them all for velocity, though.

ETA- Accuracy testing of my '72 Daisy Model 104 before and after resealing it is HERE. It now has an extended barrel shroud so I could use a new Model 25 shot tube- the 104 shot tube was worn out and is unavailable new.

 

[RPRNY]

Best option for squirrels in a suburban environment with "sensitive" neighbors is a PCP rifle in .177. But these run $350 - $400. If a little noise is okay - sounds like a quiet nail gun - then a break barrel springer in .177 - like the Gamo Whisper - will do just fine ($120). Either way, you want copper plated 8.5 gr - 10 gr pellets.

The .177 cal is ideal for squirrels. If you add bigger beasties like rabbits to the mix, then .22

If noise or firearms discharge not an issue, a 22 rimfire with shorts will do.

 

[basicblur]

If you do not have a consistent shooting position, springers are very difficult to rely on, when the moment comes.

When pest shows up, pneumatic is the one I rely on.

Everything has been answered in some of my earlier posts.

I got the Benjamin Jim Shockey Steel Eagle, which has the Nitro Piston 2 system.
The Nitro system is MUCH easier to shoot than the springer I borrowed.

I have abandoned the "artillery hold" and have gone back to conventional shoulder mount / shooting position.

Been a long time since I missed one - haven't seen one in almost two months, but with fall / winter coming on, some are starting to wander into the yard again (got one yesterday).

I was so impressed with the Steel Eagle that when a deal on the Benjamin Golden Eagle (.177) I picked one up. Haven't really had time to mount and sight in the Hawke scope I got for the Golden Eagle.

 

[GLOOB]

The Nitro system is MUCH easier to shoot than the springer I borrowed.

I have a Nitro Piston Venom. I agree, it's more consistent than my springer, regarding hold.

OP. Another opinion on caliber. At longer distances, wind and pellet drop are huge, and .177 is less affected by drift/drop in same gun (cuz higher initial velocity).

If I can go back in time, I select .177 for a springer. 22 theoretically retains more energy downrange, but effective range is limited so much by vertical stringing and wind drift (until you get to pcp level), that it is no advantage for me, IMO. I rather be able to hit target farther distance but be limited by lethal energy than to be limited by accuracy and still have lethal energy at ranges where I can't consistently hit anything.

 

[LoonWulf]

What range are you seeing stringing issues? I dont shoot springers anymore but never noticed an issue like that, tho i did miss pretty often at longer ranges, figgured it was just my hold.
My co2 guns are very consistent out to 50yds or so, and only deliver about 700fps with CPs, and the exact heavies at 650.

 

[GLOOB]

Even at practical ranges at around 35 yards, I find it easier to hit vertical target than horizontal ones. (Bottle/cans standing up or fallen over. )But maybe that has more to do with range estimation than vertical stringing. So I misspoke. I suppose I meant vertical adjustment for range.

At some point, vertical stringing will occur, though, with my Venom. I have shot at berm. I dunnno, maybe 100 yards. Vertical stringing becomes 10X as bad as horizontal with low wind. My thinking is any slight variation in pellet spin/spiral change aerodynamics, affecting velocity loss and resultant drop, and the pellet is already dropping quite fast by X yards at high slope. So even with perfect range/doping, I am believing you will have no way to get consistent vertical placement with .22, at a shorter distance than .177, all else equal. Faster muzzle velocity of .177 reduces both issues of drop and wind. Maybe practical accuracy is limiting factor, though... At 100 yards, I promise squirrel is in no danger from me and my Venom. And maybe pellet drop is more predictable with better shooter and better gun/pellet match. Or maybe springer recoil maybe affect vertical placement more than horizontal, and I just notice more at longer distance? All I knows is at 10 to 15 yards, my groups are round. And at long range they are vertical stripe.

I don't have a chrony. Shooting Crosman Venom. It likes JSB Heavies and Crosman Premier, both. Up to about 40 yards, anyway.

 

[LoonWulf]

ahh cool, I get it now.

 

[GLOOB]

That could be handy in case they all scatter before I can get a shot off - it really sucks having to waste a pellet if you don't get a shot just to relieve spring pressure. I wouldn't have to wait long as they're usually back PDQ.

Haha, just for this, I would suggest .177. OP needs to check the price of pellets!

Heck, if you really care so much, maybe check out some Chinese air rifles in 177. In my limited experience, they are more likely to shoot good with Daisy pellets which are practically free. Daisy pellets are made in china and the 177s have smaller heads than European and Crosman pellets. So maybe my small sample size isn't just coincidence?

Me, I'd set up a small target/backstop near the bird feeder. If they scatter, go ahead and take the shot for practice. Once you get one in the cross hairs, you will be 100% confident it's lights out. And if opening your window makes 'em scatter, I reckon you're way to close to get more than one shot off, unless with some $$$ setup with low power and a suppressor??? This re:

On the other hand...it would be darn quick, easy, simple, quiet for multiple shots.

CO2 powered would be nice for no muss, no fuss shots

Terrible for pests. If you think pellets are expensive, check price of CO2. CO2 easily diffuses through rubber seals. Even the newer nitrile ones. If you leave CO2 in the gun, the seals swell, get soft, and can often suffer permanent deformation. Some people have good luck leaving CO2 in there, but if you do it like that, it will still only hold the CO2 for a matter of days. And make sure to use only 1 brand. Changing to different brand, it will leak like a sieve, because the swelled seal took the shape of that brand. If you take it out within 12 hours to let the seals breathe, which is recommended, how many squirrels will u get with one CO2 cartridge?

 

[LoonWulf]

There maybe an issue with co2 in cold weather that im not aware of but here in hawaii my guns are always charged, just pulled one of my pistol builds out that hasnt been used in month and it was still charged. Seals do absorb co2 but shrink back to normal if let sit for a while, or put in the freezer. Ive also never had an issue switching brands of powerlets. I have had some issues swaping powerlets quickly on my QB as buna orings i can get locally swell badly and I need to keep a spare in the freezer to put on each swap.
Most of crosman guns ive worked this isnt an issue because the co2 powerlet goes nose first onto the valve derlin and nylon cupseals dont swell from co2 and the valve orings are in solid position so swelling isnt an issue. If you co2 gun leaks after a powerlet change most likely stuff got into the valve.
Co2 is pretty expensive tho, running about 50cents a powerlet, my custom QB78 repeater will only get 35 or so shots on a pair of powerlets, when tuned for max velocity it only gets 20. Bulk fill i get 5lbs for 35 bucks so that helps.

One of the nice things about co2 and PCPs are that repeaters are an option. Another down side to co2 is you can shoot your gun cold and lose velocity.

 

[GLOOB]

Awesome. I have been put off CO2 for this reason. I had no idea Crosman figured out how to do it so long ago... How old is the 2240? 20 years? lol.

My old Daisy slowly died. Leaving CO2 overnight was never satisfactory. There was considerably less power the next day. Reviews on Hatsan rifles also show people looking for source of new replacement seals. If Delrin/acetal isn't CO2 soluble, it makes perfect sense that Crosman can hold CO2 for extended periods. Why other makers using rubber washers... ?

I was 10 when the Daisy died. I loved that pistol, but back then I was a lot better at taking things apart than putting them back together. Sigh. More recently, I had a 1911 inspired CO2 repeater that I would have sworn was a Crosman, and it also had a black rubber disc to seal the tip of the CO2. Maybe it was a Daisy. It was over 10 years ago, and I suppose even when I was 30 I wasn't very handy. That one was binned, too. I didn't have any particular fondness for that one, though.

 

[chicharrones]

I have abandoned the "artillery hold" . . .

Me too. I shoot my Nitro piston the best with it held snug into my shoulder using my trigger hand for backward pressure.

 

[chicharrones]

I didn't know about the construction of Crosman CO2 seals. I do know that my Crosman 2260 will hold CO2 for many days, while my non-Crosman pellet pistols will leak out in only a few hours to a couple days.

 

[LoonWulf]

Sorry i should have been a little clearer when i said "crossman" Im really only talking about the crossman 17xx and 22xx series. Ive rebuilt a number of older lookalikes guns but nothing recently.
The crosman firearm lookalikes use a different type of valve system, the seals used to be pretty good, but if there was any nicks or dings they would leak. Im not sure what they are using now, i havent had one in some 10 years.
Something else that i never really thought of till now. Most lookalike pistols have relatively weak hammer springs as they have a larger impact on trigger pull than on a xx type tube gun. This would require the valve springs to be balanced lighter, possibly making them more prone to valve leaks due to fouling, and being slightly off center.

Most of the leaking issues can usually be traced to dirty powerlets, or stuff getting into the air tubes/inlet ports. If dirt or any foreign mater gets in it can cause a leak, even in the harder seals like a cup seal. Its really best to wipe off each powerlet before inserting them into the gun, and never leave a gun without something keeping stuff out of the air delivery parts. If the gun isnt going to get hot ill leave them charged with a full powerlet, but thats personal preference.

PcPs, and Pumpers are actually much pickier about stuff getting into their valves, as air is much harder to keep in than fat, slow Co2. Most pcps have some sort of fill protection tho to keep particulates out. My bulk fill kit has the same type of disk filter, and Ive had much better cupseal life using bulk fill than powerlets. A damaged cup seal can sometimes be chucked in a drill and have the ding polished out, but its another part i keep replacements of on hand.

Pistons guns will keep working even if theres a ding in a seal, usually you just lose some velocity. Ive never seen a gas piston gun fail, but from what ive heard they pretty much just quit working, so there isnt much of a question if you have an issue lol.

Im not actually sure how old the XX series are, I know the QB78s I like so much are copies of the Crosman 160, which were early XX guns....current ones probably started in the 80s id guess, i should go look it up....

 

[GLOOB]

Im really only talking about the crossman 17xx and 22xx series.

That's fine to me. These are the only ones I would have any interest in. Love my 2100 and 2200 Crosman pumpers. One day I'm going to build some hardwood grips for them.

 

[LoonWulf]

Ive had great success with the Crosman pump guns, I have a carbine built on a 1322 thats one of my favorite ratters...it leaks alot tho, humid air and aluminum valving means corrosion wars. If the OP hadnt already picked up a gun, i was actually gonna suggest something like that lol.

 

[GLOOB]

Well, I'll be damned. That's what I meant. Not 2100/2200. lol. I have the 1322 and 1377 version. These pistols are as practically accurate in my hands as any of my springer rifles. The 1322 has been my go-to for tree rats. I mean real tree rats, which are the problem animal around my parts. Not a euphemism for squirrel.

My 1322 happens to shoot lights out with Daisy flatheads. My 1377 likes Crosman pellets. So pricewise and for thunk of 22 wadcuttters at close range, I use the 22 for short range pests, keeping red dot on it. The 1377 is pistol-scoped, which makes it useless at night, anyhow. Only time you get a shot at a real tree rat.

 

[LoonWulf]

I like the 2200 tho LOL
Thats the same way i have my 1322 set up, and for exactly the same purpose, its got some extra goodies. I may do a thread on my modded guns after i redo the paint and get them tuned up, i need to replace the valve in my 1322, ive been trying to find a brass one but so far no luck on a cheap one.

 

[GLOOB]

I have 2 cents on the CB cap option, too.

1. For 99% of us, it is technically illegal to shoot a firearm in your backyard.
2. CB caps are great and accurate, but out of a 22" barrel bolt action, they are not as quiet as most airguns.
3. Out of same rifle, an Aguila Super Colibri is quieter. And an Aguila Colibri is firing pin noise, only.

.... But compared to a decent pellet gun, the Aguila Colibri/Super Colibri's are not as accurate, IME! Theory-crafting: besides a great variation in muzzle velocity that you might expect from primer-only propellant, the stubby-short 20 grain bullet probably needs a slower twist rate than what's going on in the average 22LR barrel. Colibri's are strictly for fun, in my guns. And CB caps would be useful if I lived on a farm, mebbe.

 

[zeek96]

Benjamin marauder is super accurate a bit expensive comes in .177 .22 & .25 cal. at 50 yards you can get the .25 to put all 10 shots in the size of a dime. the point 177 will drift more in wind but also super accurate in calm conditions. The ,25 will take out coyotes if correct shot placement and distance is used.

 

[chicharrones]

Pistons guns will keep working even if theres a ding in a seal, usually you just lose some velocity. Ive never seen a gas piston gun fail, but from what ive heard they pretty much just quit working, so there isnt much of a question if you have an issue lol.

Nitro piston with the gas spring? I haven't seen one of those fail in an air gun yet, but I've seen plenty of gas springs that are used as hood or trunk struts fail. But they usually don't lose their complete spring rating, they lose say 50% or so before they go out all the way. I'd guess, in an airgun the failure would be a horrible loss of muzzle velocity with pellets being lobbed rather than launched.

 

[chicharrones]

Ive had great success with the Crosman pump guns, I have a carbine built on a 1322 thats one of my favorite ratters...it leaks alot tho, humid air and aluminum valving means corrosion wars. If the OP hadnt already picked up a gun, i was actually gonna suggest something like that lol.

That sounds about normal. My old Crosman 1389 backpacker and my much newer 1377 don't hold air on the one or two "storage" pumps anymore. Okay, the backpacker won't hold any pumps anymore.

 

[LoonWulf]

That sounds about normal. My old Crosman 1389 backpacker and my much newer 1377 don't hold air on the one or two "storage" pumps anymore. Okay, the backpacker won't hold any pumps anymore.

I shoulda taken a picture when i cleaned it out last night, looked horrible lol. Acid dip and a good scrubbing got it sealing for now, well see how long thatll last. Its raining again.....

I read an article a while back by one of the early gas piston designers, cant remeber who. They were saying that the syste does have a life span, cant remember what. At the end od said life the gun basically just stops working, cant remeber how.....usefull arnt I?

Id guess your right tho, suddenly it would just stop shooting worth a darn.