Personal Protection Ammunition

[Pa.Bill]

I have never really given this much thought. (I use Speer Gold-Dot 9mm luger 115GDHPin my carry) I know there is a bunch of 'new stuff' out there.
Anyone have a 'fovorite' personal protection round ?

 

[highorder]

while I use 230gr Hydrashoks in my 1911, I agree with those that suggest carrying the same load your local LEO's carry, from a legal standpoint.

aside from that, there are many good factory loads available these days.

 

[Gun Slinger]

while I use 230gr Hydrashoks in my 1911, I agree with those that suggest carrying the same load your local LEO's carry, from a legal standpoint.

aside from that, there are many good factory loads available these days.

That's an excellent starting point, highorder.

PA.Bill,

What you are carrying now is just fine, no need to change unless you feel the need to do so. While I personally prefer the Hornady 147 gr. TAP "CQ" JHP in my Glock 17 since I like "heavy for caliber" bullets at subsonic velocity, you need to consider your needs (sounds like you have) and choose your ammunition accordingly. Don't worry what others have chosen, do what fits you best.

Lots of new premium grade SD loads are available.

Do a little research, find what pleases/suits you the best and the possible scenarios you are most likely to encounter, buy enough to ascertain it's reliability on your carry piece, load up and remember to remain aware of your surroundings.

After that, buy a case of the 'cheap stuff' ( I know, I know.......ammo ain't "cheap" anymore! ) like some decent quality FMJ and practice.......alot.

Maybe get some training of you haven't done so already.

GS

 

[Soybomb]

http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000964 is chock full of great advice.

 

[Keegan]

I agree with those that suggest carrying the same load your local LEO's carry, from a legal standpoint.

I've never heard of doing that. What is the legal benefit? How would one even find out, short of calling up the non-911 number and hoping they'll tell you?

 

[Gun Slinger]

One of the claimed benefits to making such an ammunition selection is that by using the same loads that the Police are using is that the Prosecutor cannot attack your choice of ammunition if you are charged with Murder (if the BG dies) or Felonious Assault (if the BG lives) since the Police are using it also.

Can't guarantee that it will work in your favor, but it probably won't hurt either, unless the Prosecutor wants to try to portray you as some sort of a "trigger happy cop wanna-be" bent on hunting down people that you percieve as "bad guys" and dispensing your own twisted form of vigilante justice, in order to further his hopes, dreams and aspirations as they relate to his political career, but that never happens.................well almost never.

All the best,

GS

 

[FranklyTodd]

I use Winchester LEO Ranger 127gr 9mm +P because it's effective, but also because it's cheap compared to the $1 per round 20 count boxes (what a rip-off that is). The Ranger stuff is $22 per box of 50. The local cops use .40cal, so I'm already under that...

In my .357 snub I currently have Speer GD for Short Barrels, 38+P. I want to try their .357 short barrel load, but haven't been able to locate any (has been out of stock - haven't looked lately).

I don't know if you have to use the same ammo as the cops, but I certainly would avoid handloads (for reliability and jury-appearance reasons) and anything exotic. I would also suggest avoiding anything like the 33rd Glock magazine - I love guns but would have to wonder myself about anyone using one of those for anything other than a novelty...

In my self defense training years ago, the teacher always similarly warned about knives (this was WAY pre-CCW in Ohio). Those uber-tactical black fancy "fighting" knives, in his opinion, were no more effective, they just make you look like you were wanting to have a knife fight, rather than having a practical folding knife as a tool that just happened to be useful for self-defense as well.

 

[Markbo]

There are 8 or 10 highly considered personal protection loads for each caliber. I shoot all of them I can get ahold of and then choose the one that functions 100% in my guns - run absolutely dry - and that group the best.

The whole '7 yard accuracy' thing to me is stupid. Just because that is the average does not predict YOUR shootout won't be at 21 yards. When TSHTF I want to know my gun is loaded with the most accurate load I can carry. The bullet will do it's job if I do my job.

FWIW None of my possible PD guns all carry the same ammo. They will shoot it... but they are packed with what they shoot best.

 

[highorder]

How would one even find out, short of calling up the non-911 number and hoping they'll tell you?

hopefully you live in a community where you have developed a relationship with your local police, including personally getting to know a few officers. Isn't that the way it should be? They are here to protect and serve, and in my opinion, the "neighborhood liasion officers" are at the tip of the spear, so to speak.

 

[Markbo]

Wow. What TVLand community do YOU live in?

I live in the suburbs a mogopolis. If I 'get to know' a cop it is because we somehow became acquaintances outside his work. If anyone has developed a personal relationship with their local police force it is usually because they have been arrested a few times.

I am not saying it is a bad idea, but frankly it has never even occured to me to call up the local Constabulary and have a 'get to know you' meeting. They have about 500-750,000 people in their precinct and I think you would be looked on oddly.

Now if you invite them out to the Homeowners association meetings, they are glad to do so, but you will only meet the brass who goes to those meetings. The COP on the street is never a familiar face and I have lived in the same house for 9 years.

Protect and to serve? Afraid that went out with Adam 12. How wonderfully naive. More like to Serve and to Serve; warrants & traffic tickets.

 

[Shooter973]

personal protection ammo.........

Any good name brand ammo is going to do for me. After all there are no "Magic" bullets. A good hit is still a good hit with any good ammo. As a consiquense of this view point, I carry White Box 230gr hollows in my carry 45.. and I feel well protected.

 

[novaDAK]

I trust WWB and UMC JHP's...shot enough of 'em to know they're reliable and while the bullets may be "old" technology, they expand reliably and penetrate at least 12-14" depending on the caliber/weight.

 

[jaydubya]

My S&W 637 Airweight snubby is loaded with Remington 158gr SWCHPs. My Browning Hi Power carries 124gr Speer Gold Dots. Good HD/SD loads.
Cordially, Jack

 

[highorder]

hopefully you live in a community where you have developed a relationship with your local police, including personally getting to know a few officers. Isn't that the way it should be? They are here to protect and serve, and in my opinion, the "neighborhood liasion officers" are at the tip of the spear, so to speak.

Wow. What TVLand community do YOU live in?

I live in the suburbs a mogopolis. If I 'get to know' a cop it is because we somehow became acquaintances outside his work. If anyone has developed a personal relationship with their local police force it is usually because they have been arrested a few times.

I am not saying it is a bad idea, but frankly it has never even occured to me to call up the local Constabulary and have a 'get to know you' meeting. They have about 500-750,000 people in their precinct and I think you would be looked on oddly.

Now if you invite them out to the Homeowners association meetings, they are glad to do so, but you will only meet the brass who goes to those meetings. The COP on the street is never a familiar face and I have lived in the same house for 9 years.

Protect and to serve? Afraid that went out with Adam 12. How wonderfully naive. More like to Serve and to Serve; warrants & traffic tickets.

I figured I would get a response like that, thats ok. I live in a suburb of Cincinnati that only has about 8,000 people. It's a great place where the local LEO's ARE friendly and DO get to know people. I'ts NOT naive, it's a nice town. I understand it's probably worse where you (and many other) people live, but don't believe that your reality is everyone's reality.

 

[ETCss Phil McCrackin]

I am currently running the 230gn Fed HST. From what I understand, it's got great performance through clothing and expansion is excellent. None of the plates, bowling pins, or paper targets I have shot yet ever got back up and it runs 100%, so I guess it's pretty good stuff.

 

[CWL]

Can someone please name one single case where a person was prosecuted using legal self-defense ammunition?

 

[41magsnub]

My position as a non lawyer and overall layman is that short of some exotic Mall Ninja-esque extreme shock ammo or the like you will be fine on the ammo choice front if it comes up in court. Just use something normal that is factory loaded and available at a normal sporting goods store. Also, if you have a couple of boxes of the dreaded Black Talon rounds laying around don't use them because of the ridiculous cop killer stigma.

 

[MarcusWendt]

I've run polls on various gun boards and about every 6 months or so a poll will pop up on this very topic.

Usually the pollster will list most of the well known defensive handgun rounds available to the public.

I have yet to see one of these polls that didn't have the Gold Dots come out far ahead of the next most popular.

I carry the Double Tap 165 grn .40 S&W using Gold Dots. I'm very comfortable with it.

I've shot just about every commercially available common defensive round through all three or four of the handguns I may one day use to protect my or my families life. I make sure they all cycle, are reasonably accurate in my hands and don't have any abnormalities that would cause me concern.

Whatever you choose, make sure it works with your weapon. I'd say you need to fire a few hundred of these rounds at least to determine that it works o.k. well in your firearm.

It's not cheap, but your life MAY depend on it someday.

 

[spiroxlii]

I carry 102gr .380ACP Remington Golden Saber JHPs in my Bersa Thunder 380. I usually carry 147gr 9mm Winchester USA (White Box) JHPs in my Bersa Thunder 380 and my HS2000.

Right now, I'm out of WWB ammo. I usually try to practice with cheap FMJ ammo with the same weight bullet as my carry ammo, but I end every weekly or bi-weekly practice session by shooting a full mag of my carry ammo. That's how I ran out of WWB. Before I buy more WWB, I'm running through my supply of Remington Express (Green Box) 147gr JHPs and Georgia Arms 147gr JHPs (loaded with a Zero bullet).

 

[NG VI]

what's the Zero bullet georgia arms uses? I've never heard of it except from them, and i'm starting to really warm up to the 147 loadings for my 9mm.

 

[spiroxlii]

NG VI, I've had some trouble finding much info about Zero JHP bullets. People who handload for match shooting love Zero bullets in general, but I haven't found any reviews of their JHPs for defensive use. Just from looking at the bullet, it seems to have a similar but not quite identical bullet and jacket design as the WWB ammo. Georgia Arms loads Gold Dot bullets in their 115gr and 124gr 9mm defensive ammo, but they don't offer the Gold Dots in 147gr. When I asked why they use Zero bullets instead of Gold Dots in their 147gr JHP ammo, they said that the 147gr Gold Dots cause cases to bulge so they don't feed as reliably as they should in some handguns.

Georgia Arms isn't the only company that uses Zero bullets for their 147gr JHPs. Atlanta Arms & Ammo uses the Zero JHP in their 147gr 9mm defensive ammo too.

 

[Eagle1899]

The best ammo you can use, is the one that works every time in your gun. Beyond that, shot placement.

 

[Blueduck]

Depending on where you live you might want to look at what various large LE agencies have used in that caliber at least for sometime, as opposed to what your local guys carry. The information on what the bigger agencies carry is pretty easy to find out online.

At least then you have a pretty good assurance that it has been thoroughly tested, and with large agencies with more shootings if it was performing badly it would be dropped or at least word would be out about it. Now other factors do enter into their choice that might not affect you, more emphasis on auto glass penetration, Price, Federal Ammo used to at least provide free legal experts to PD's using their ammo for testimony related to shootings. So you may not get the "best" load, but you most likely will get a pretty good one. No one seems to be able to really agree on what "best" is anyways

"Terrorist Exterminator 2000's" and Black Talons? Ten years working in courts including the back room I could write a giant wall of text on why not to from both legal civil standpoints, but why bother? "Exploder 9000" or whatever ammo of the week has no valid track record, and "Black Talons" are old manufacture, (more collectors items at this point), old tech, and carry a stigma, so why even consider them anyway?

Anyway...NYPD has carried 124+P Gold Dot in 9mm for several years, might be a good pick.

 

[Blueduck]

Oh.. on asking local police what they carry.

Blueduck swears this on a stack of Bibles...

Years ago as Probation and Parole officer I worked out of a small PD, after becoming friends with a 10 year officer there I asked him what load he carried. He pulled the magazine out and showed me what was clearly a 9mm silvertip. He explained "I carry these, the hole in the top makes them go faster"

 

[BadAndys5oh]

I know a prosecutor in my area that didn't bring up the "stigma" of black talon bullets found in a defendents handgun when he was arrested for P&P. He was more concerned that they were jacketed hollow points that are meant to stop a bad guy better than target ammo and made a big deal about it.