Perspectives: 'Sudden Jihad Syndrome' - A reason to carry firearms for self-defense

[Kaylee]

1. "SJS" is just silly. "Medicalizing" a cultural phenomenon like jihad, as if it's something one can catch (people susceptible to SJS??) is just childishly absurd.

The odds of facing a jidahi in downtown USA are infinitesimal. That said, the odds of meeting a mugger aren't too terribly high, and we carry anyway. Nice that the same solution works for both problems.

2. Despite the presently few incidents in the US, to deny that violence fueled by jihadi sentiment is a real and growing problem in the world at large and within our own borders is to practice willful ignorance. Contrariwise, to say that any given random person in the US is in immediate danger of facing a jihadi bent on violence is silly.

3. The degree to which violent jihad reflects "legitimate" Islam is.. well, beyond the scope of this thread.


And thanks for keeping us running Derek.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

I am a Marine, and I have been deployed to Iraq in a Combat arms capacity.

That's a lot of folks on this board. And there's definitely a correlation between working directly with Iraqis (Anbar Bedouins in my case), and understanding that they're not a nation of cookie-cutter Disney villains.

Coming away from Iraq thinking of all Iraqis as "those camel-******* who shot at us" doesn't necessarily entail a detailed understanding of the Islamic world. That said, thanks for your service, hope it worked out well for you as well, and that you're also pimping the MGIB for all it's worth.


The article seemed pretty dang silly to me. The "what if 1% were out to get us?" was a laugh-out-loud moment. What if 32.5% of all of Delta Tau Tau started nibbling on my earlobes? Look, I can pull random theoretical percentages out of dank holes too!

I'm seriously annoyed enough about this article to email GOA complaining (and I am a member).

The more folks fixate on getting hysterical about East vs. West, the more it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As silly and overwrough as the film "Kingdom of Heaven" was, I always love to reflect back on the line: "You want a war? ...I'll give you a war!"

-MV


EDIT: email sent:

Greetings,

I'm writing to express my displeasure over Mr Pratt's "Sudden Jihad Syndrome" article.

As a GOA donator and USMC Iraq veteran, I feel that Mr Pratt's article reflects poorly on America's gun owners, and amounts to blatant baiting of American Muslims.

The article is statistically laughable: "what if only 1% were against us?" Well, what if 32% of sorority girls were nibbling on my earlobes? It's a random hypothetical percentage treated as a shocking revelation. The rest of the article is similarly arbitrary.

I understand that Mr Pratt wrote the article as an individual, however, he is still directly identified with GOA by the general public, and thus reflects negatively upon the shooting community.

I urge Mr Pratt and GOA to stick to _gun_ issues, rather than sully the GOA image with such alarmist foolishness.

-Capt [edited for THR], USMC-R

 

[bogie]

Well, I can see part of it... There is a subgroup of that culture who makes a lot of noises about preferring people who are not of that culture dead.

But to label the entire culture...

I'm _far_ more worried about young urbanites, who've been taught that the world owes 'em a living and that people of European ancestry are the main reason they ain't getting it, suddenly deciding to do a bit of random plinking. One of the reasons why I didn't like walking in the city was the "evil eye" and such...

Now I'm in the 'burbs, and everything's too far to walk to. Sigh... And nobody knows from good pastrami...

At any rate, a threat can literally come from anywhere - ANYWHERE. A fringe muslim thinking that he's doing God's work. A meth-smokin' cracker who has decided that everyone in the area is DEA. A 'banger who thinks that you're dissin' him by being on his street. A christian who thinks that a bomb is a suitable solution to family planning. Organized Mexican/central/south American crime folks who don't want you to have witnessed what they just did/are about to do. Italians doing the same thing. Armenians doing the same thing. Russians doing the same thing. Irish doing the same thing. Oh heck, pick a nationality (but us dutch are kinda boring...). An aryan brotherhood nutjob who wants to ethnically cleanse everyone with an IQ over... what was his again? he forgot...

It's people, in general.

Of course, if I'm in a mall or a movie theater, and some of Bin Laden's folks decided that they wanna make an example of the place, I'm not gonna be thinking about discrimination. I'm going to be thinking about survival. But it could just as easily be someone else's folks. Bad guys are bad guys. Period.

 

[ConfuseUs]

Well that was ummmm....Interesting.
The fact that not even twenty violent crimes over 13 years involved radicalized Muslims has me running to go get a CHL ASAP in case I run into someone suffering from SJS and thus have to go for COM and maybe a MD too!</sarcasm>.

I think the author should spend more time thinking of more credible ways to persuade the public that CCW is good for public safety instead of trashing a group of people he probably has no exposure to.

 

[Autolycus]

This article is nothing but bigotry at its finest. The author is trying to induce a panic against Muslims so that gun laws will be reappealed. Thats pretty sad. I notice that the author does not comment on how many Christians go on these types of rampages? Or how many white males go on these rampages? Why? Because he is a member of both of those groups. Funny isnt it?

GOA will not get a dime of my support.

 

[strambo]

If anyone, in any way, disaggrees with that article...I'll put a jihad on you!!!

Yeah, I'm not too worried about the latest, odds are better to get struck by lightning, syndrome. In fact, despite having been to both theaters in our current GWOT...I'm not that worried about terrorists either. Certainly not worried enough to give up one single right for a feeling of increased "safety" (too late ). I'll keep packin' at the mall anyway though.

 

[Titan6]

Giving up rights and inducing a dehumanizing character to a group based upon a poorly defined and unproven safety factor is what this article is all about. More than once I have seen people on this board and elsewhere advocate gathering up all the Muslims in this country and sending them to camps. They even cite the idiocy of the Japanese-Americans internment as a rational basis. It was wrong headed fear mongering then against the Japanese-Americans and it is the same now against Muslims.

Saying that the FBI has been coached not to talk about this plays on peoples fears that we have a problem and the government protecting us from it. This is a certain road for a group of people to call for more strictures on all of our freedoms in order to 'protect' us from ourselves. Truth is if the FBI came out and said such poorly substantsiated nonsesne the director probably would get the axe.

 

[stevelyn]

Larry Pratt seems to be a bit of a Christo-fascist and I think GOA would be much better off if he would leave out or at least tone down the religious vitriol that seems to get him off the subject at times.

However, mixed in with the religious BS is the message that we would all be better off in a position to defend ourselves regardless of the motives of the the nutcase trying to kill us.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Sigh.

Any thread that deals with the jihadist basis of terrorism dances on the edge of a sharp blade.

As a society, we can NOT afford to overgeneralize, and sweep up all members of a particular religion into the suspect list on account of some number who twist teachings to justify their inhumanity to their fellow men.

Flipside,

As a society, we can NOT afford to ignore this and pretend that there isn't _some_ relationship between twisted teachings and violent jihadism.


The many flaws of Pratt's article aside, I think there are two things that bear pointing out.

The first is that the canard, "there has been no terrorist events on American soil since 9/11" is _arguably_ NOT true.

The second is that these possible events all stem from what the authorities fear the most, the activities of independent "cells of one". These are the most feared because they are essentially unpredictable, and potentially untraceable. While the aftermath of a "cell of one" is less dramatic than that of a larger, more organized and equipped cell, the larger cell is easier to get a handle on, due to its size and connections to elsewhere. The main fear of the authorities is that dozens, or even hundred of "cells of one" would act in concert, yet without any direct connection or formal coordination.

This scenario is familiar to anyone who's read UC.

It is for _this_ reason that whatever jihadist basis of these events that may exist is downplayed in the press, for fear that this would send up the "go flare", and activate the other potential latent cells of one that are lurking out there. Even with "normal" crime, you need to deal with the "copycat effect".

An occassional person who goes postal type event every 6 months is one thing. Mass activation of "cells of one", to the unknown extent to which they actually exist, is entirely another.


At issue here, however, isn't normal crime. At issue is a belief set, twisted from the teachings of Islam (or, to be fair, any religion, but Islam's in the hotseat these days) that provides a mental, pseudo religious, and cultural framework that justifies, supports and encourages the application of violence onto whoever the designated unbelievers are.

As a society, we cannot pretend that isn't happening, but NIETHER can we make broad generalizations.

Like this thread, we must dance on the knife's edge, lest we become unbalanced.


There is one more thing I will add, that is true of every Holy Book our planet offers us, be it Koran, Bible, Upanishads, or whatever:

You must clean your hands, _and_ your heart before picking up any holy text.

You must clean your hands, so as not to get dirt on the pages.
You must clean your heart, so as not to get any dirt on you.


.

 

[Titan6]

Okay, let us assume that half or even all of these are the actions of terror cells and not individuals with mental problems. What of it?

Who is more dangerous? The crips, bloods, any number of the Mexican, Guatemalan or Columbian gangs or the Jihadists? I am willing to bet that any major gang you care to name is resonsible for 10 times the amount of violence and crime than even the most powerful Jihadist group(s) since 911. And what is the government response? The Patriot Act that steals our rights. How many terroists has it caught? A big fat zero.

Certainly there have been terrorist acts on US soil since 911. In fact you would be hard pressed to find any large city in the US where terrorists acts have not occurred since 911. A fact widely over looked is that terrorist acts have occurred in this country since before it was founded and did not start on 911.

The terrorists won big over 911. They convinced the congress to repeal our rights out of fear. They played the US in to a costly war in Iraq. And they are succeeding in convincing many Americans that all of Islam is their enemy.

 

[Kali Endgame]

You can't argue, rationalize, molify, convert or anything else, a fanatic. Period. Fanatics march to their own beat and cannot be swayed. Religion is, by and large, the main instigator of these actions. I stated Religion, not Faith. There is a huge difference between the two and to lump them together is a mistake.
Killing for a diety is a way to justify actions. Nothing more. Self defense and murder are on opposite ends of the pendulum. But when the pendulum makes a complete revolution, the two ends meet. Therein lies the problem.

 

[Lonestar]

I think SJS is a silly way to lump murders into a category and point a finger at a group of people. Sort of like having a Sudden Ghetto Syndrome every time a Poor urban black person kills someone. Its just silly.

However that said if you look at what RADICAL islam is teaching and doing, It makes some sense. No two bones about it, they are teaching their faithful to Kill Americans and Jews and if they do they will receive awards in heaven.

 

[Master Blaster]

As an American Jew, its really hard for me to have and impartial perspective on this.

Bufford Furrow a white supremecist and Christian, shot up a Jewish community center in Los Angeles a few years back because he hated Jews and saw a soft target.

Adolph Hitler, made ridding the world of Jews his priority and he nearly succeded, and that was only 63 years ago. He was not a Muslum, his reason was to avoid contaminating the master race, because Jews were the cause of all of Germany's problems, or some such reason.

Right now there are folks in charge of entire countries which may have Nuclear arms soon who are calling for Jews to be wiped off the Face of the Earth publicly, and repeatedly. There are Millions who agree wholeheartedly with this idea. Most of these folks are doing it in the name of Islam.

The reason is because Israel you see has stolen the most valuable piece of desert in the whole Middle east from the Plaestinian people!! It has no oil, it has very little water, but it is irreplacible.Jews are bad bad people which is why they allow freedom of religion to people who publically call for all Jews to be killed. Israel oppresses Muslums, that is why the 4 million Muslum Israeli citizens are lining up to leave Israel right now.

The attacks on Synagogues in Europe you never hear about in the USA are being carried out in the name of Islam. The folks flying planes into the WTC claimed they were doing it as part of their religion, as did the Madrid train bombers, the London bus bombers and all of the folks Mr. Pratt listed.

If I go to Saudi Arabia, they would not let me into the country because they dont allow Jews. If I have a bible there, or a torah, or I mention another religion or invite a Saudi citizen to attend church with me, I could be executed for proselytizing. The Saudis are the keepers of the holiest place in all Islam and the defenders of the faith, so they tollerate no other religion except Islam in their country. What is the penalty for promoting another religion in Saudi Arabia???? Why DEATH of course.

So what exactly am I to think about all of this??

That the muslem faith is peaceful and tollerant?

Is all of this just a coincidence?

 

[Tommygunn]

Larry Pratt seems to be a bit of a Christo-fascist and I think GOA would be much better off if he would leave out or at least tone down the religious vitriol that seems to get him off the subject at times

No, Larry Pratt is no "Christo-fascist." He is just a staunch defender of the RTKBA and has now unfortunatly gone off on a tangent and wound up in la-la land. You are right, however, in that he has definantly gone "off topic" on this one!

 

[44AMP]

Fanatics

Of any kind are dangerous people. I think it was Winston Churchill who said "a fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject". Or something like that.

The article does contain a number of verifiable facts, along with some absurd postualtions. But the facts remain. A number of murders and attemped murders have been committed by individuals who claim their reason is basically "God wants me to do this".

While this phenomenon is found throught history and in all cultures (the usual explanation is that the individual is deranged - hearing voices, etc.) fanatics claiming to be Muslims have (and continue) to make public statements that this IS their reason for doing it.

I consider the use of "SJS" to be a tongue in cheek jab at our propensity to create a "condition" and give it a sound bite acronym for nearly everthing. If Mr Pratt is actually serious about SJS, his future statements will clarify this. Until then I will give hime the benefit of the doubt, and believe him only guilty of poor judgement in his choice of sarcasm.

There are lots of fanatics in the world, but currently the most noticably dangerous are the ones who claim to be following the teaching of Mohammed. This is sadly, an observed fact, and no amount of crying that it is just an anti-Muslim sentiment to say it makes it any less true.

Throughout history, more evil has been done in the name of what is or is not the 'correct" interpretation of God's word than any other single cause. Millions of people have been killed by people whose justification was that they were "doing God's work". And nost horrifying of all is, that in their minds, they were.

Nearly all organized religions have had periods in their history (sometimes lasting hundreds of years) where they have encouraged their followers to do these things. The only real difference in them has been the scale of their effectiveness.

I believe is all boils down to the "sins" of pride, lust, and greed. Lust and greed for power over others, fame and recognition by fellow believers, and pride so great that they know that their way is the only right way, and the conviction that the only choice for others is "convert or die".

This is not limited to Moslem fanatics, they are just today's most visible bogeymen, variations are found in all cultures, and in politics as well. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and others just in this past century caused the deaths of millions who would not follow their "teachings".

We should all give thanks to our own personal pantheon that as gun owners, our personal political enemies (the anti-gunners) are such fanatics about their fear and loathing of firearms. Otherwise they might actually take up arms against us! Have you never heard one of them express the sentiment that "gun owners out to be shot!", either in those words or in others implying the same thing?

While most would be horrified at the idea of actually having to bloody their hands to do the deed, there are those who would have no problem having their hired guns (Law Enforcement) do it for them. After all, we would be criminals and lawbreakers, and deserving of what we get.

There is nothing new in all this, as I have said before examples can be found everywhere one looks, if one looks without the filter of fanaticism. All that changes is the targeted group and the group doing the targeting.

There is evil in the world, and it comes in two basic types, indivdual actions and group actions. Other than the fact that it wears human skin the variations are as diverse as humanity.

 

[bogie]

Sigh...

Why couldn't they just all have some kool-ade so that everyone else can just peacefully get along?

Where's that Heaven's Gate guy when you need him...

Hmm... Sudden Bubba Syndrombe... (not misspelled...). Pabst Blue Ribbon, a shotgun, and the first roadside signage available...

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Yeah, this _is_ supposed to poke fun at Bubba. So?

 

[wingman]

As a society, we can NOT afford to overgeneralize, and sweep up all members of a particular religion into the suspect list on account of some number who twist teachings to justify their inhumanity to their fellow men.

Flipside,

As a society, we can NOT afford to ignore this and pretend that there isn't _some_ relationship between twisted teachings and violent jihadism.

Dang, words of wisdom from a moderator,excellent and well said.

Be kind but carry a big stick.

 

[thexrayboy]

Senor Geekwitha45 summed up the gist of this issue quite well.

The odds of anyone falling victim to a terrorist attack are minimal at best.
Does that mean we should calmly ignore what is going on in the world. I hope not. Islam is not a religion in the sense that westerners understand. It is a life philosophy that encompasses everything. The stated goal of Islam is world domination and the destruction of all non muslims. This is the teachings of Mohammed. To deny this is ostrich syndrome. Islam has been at war with the world for centuries. The events of the last 30 odd years are just another chapter in that quest for total control of the world.

We as free people must learn a new way of thinking if we are to understand our enemy and find a way to overcome their desire to totally destroy us.
Failure to accept the facts will lead to our demise.
The simple facts of the matter are quite basic.

Mohammed charged the followers of Islam with the task of enslaving, converting or destroying all non muslims.

Muslims are not only allowed but encouraged to lie to nonbelievers about the
teachings and goals of Islam.

We are the enemy to Islam and deserving of death. Any sacrifice made, any
person harmed or killed, any damage done in the quest to bring death to us, the infidels is forgiven, allowed and excused by Islam.

If I have offended any Muslims today....to bad. Go find another religion.
If you are a professed Muslim than in my book you are the enemy.
It is just that simple.

Right now the odds of anyone meeting a "sudden jihadi syndrome" carrier are
minimal. The goal of Islam it make those odds a virtual certainty.

 

[psyopspec]

My analysis:
-Pratt wrote a piece with the intention of exploiting a series of statistically insignificant incidents for the purpose of scaring the audience to raise money for/advance the cause of GOA.

Good for Pratt. Can't say as I'd use that approach myself, were I in his position. The result for me as a gun owner:

-I can't be associated with the GOA. If they're not racist, Pratt is at least representing racist undertones in his article. Suppose one of the noobs I take out to the range asks about political support for 2A and I tell them "well, there's this great organization called the Gun Owners of America. You should check them out!" Suppose they get home, hop on the interweb, and stumble across the drivel above. Suddenly, the fun introduction to shooting I gave them that afternoon is representative of a hateful (not to mention illogical, to the point of hilarity if it weren't for negative image) subculture whose members pack heat in case of an outbreak of SJS. Even if Pratt's not a bigot, I suddenly look that way, and its not the image I want for myself or the cause of 2A.

 

[Art Eatman]

All this is why I've long tried to get folks to separate "Jihadist" from "Islamic". And why words such as "some", "a few", or "not many" are quite necessary to so many of these discussions.

Insofar as CHL stuff, though, the issue of Jihadists is almost irrelevant. There is always some sort of nutcase or evil type around, somewhere. You carry because you might move from Condition Yellow to Condition Orange or Red. Why the Bad Guy is a bad guy is something worry about after you survive the encounter.

Art

 

[Stretchman]

Why couldn't they just all have some kool-ade so that everyone else can just peacefully get along?

First of all, have you ever had the Kool-Aid? If the answer is no, what do you think is soo peaceful about it?

Secondly, with 50,000 homicides in this country every year, and about half being suicides, do you think you could drudge up any stats you wanted to on people who kill for any particular reason, or for no reason at all?

Sudden wanna rob the 7-11 syndrome is a much better scenario, and lots more likely to happen. Sudden wanna do a home invasions, or a drive by, is much more prevalent, but stats like these simply reflect what it is about weapons that make some people untrustworthy when they have them.

How about sudden today, I am going to make certain that no one commits crime in my sector, I am going to maintain the peace, maintain my professionalism, and ensure that the country that others think we only dream about not only does exist, but is much more closely aligned with reality than any of the drivel that lis being ladeled out by Hollywood, the press, or the media.

Maybe the right to keep and bear arms would be safest if it didn't really make a difference if everyone had a gun or not? For Chirst's sake, doesn't anyone feel like winning?

 

[Derek Zeanah]

The stated goal of Islam is world domination and the destruction of all non muslims. This is the teachings of Mohammed. To deny this is ostrich syndrome. Islam has been at war with the world for centuries. The events of the last 30 odd years are just another chapter in that quest for total control of the world.

And this is where these things always end up. XXXXXXXX entertainment personality says it's so, so it's got to be, regarldless of the actual words of the Qur'an or of the history of the religion since its inception.

Mohammed charged the followers of Islam with the task of enslaving, converting or destroying all non muslims.

More of the same.

A bunch more snipped.

If I have offended any Muslims today....to bad. Go find another religion.
If you are a professed Muslim than in my book you are the enemy.
It is just that simple.

Then I'm on your enemies list.

Now, do you feel better now that you've pounded your chest a bit and outed yourself?

 

[thexrayboy]

Then I'm on your enemies list.

Yes you are the enemy. And if you are not then you are an apostate to Islam
and they would see you dead also.

Just as we once viewed the Germans and Japanese as mortal enemies worthy of only destruction due to their designs on America and our freedom so to
should Americans look at Islam and its practicioners. Just as the Nazi political party rationalized and justified its murderous excesses so too the followers of Mohammed justify their heinous activities. And just as only a small portion of the German people and Japanese people were the ones in power who prosecuted the war and its atrocities only a portion of Muslims are active in the effort to destroy the rest of the world.

But since all of Germany and all of Japan labored to provide the material support for the Nazi's and the Imperial war machine they were targeted for
attack and destruction in the effort to weaken our enemies.
All muslims form the support base for radical Islam. Just as we could not
target only the Nazis and not Germany as a whole we cannot focuse only on radical Islam, we must deal with Islam as a whole for that is the source of the evil that hides behind the face of religion.

So yes Derek you are the enemy of America, or you truly do not understand
Islam. True Islam is the enemy of all that is not Islam. All others are infidels and apostates. Any muslim who states this is not true is following the
tradition of Islam that dictates it is acceptable to lie to non muslims if it serves the purpose of Islam.

 

[psyopspec]

thexrayboy, that's a very clever position to put yourself in. If people like Derek Z. come out against all that is western and democratic, then they're just being true to their colors: If they're not spouting that stuff off, then they're just hiding in "sleeper cell" mode until the time is right. Therefore, by your logic, Muslims who are openly anti-western = bad, while Muslims who preach peace and tolerance = bad.

Heads I win, tails you lose. Nice.

 

[shootinstudent]

thexrayboy,

Please tell us, how did you come to "truly understand Islam" such that you know what it teaches better than Muslims do?