Phony baloney, or the real McCoy?

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Captain*kirk

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A few years back I got this Hornady concentricity gauge on sale with free shipping so I jumped on it. When reloading bottleneck rifle carts with a long ogive, it does indeed find those wobbly bullets that are +/- .005 or more, and the nylon screw does allow you to push those carts down to maybe .002 or less. So, does it work? Yes.
However, I recently watched a video where a guy was dissing this as smoke and mirrors gadgetry that is totally unnecessary (in his opinion) as he claims the bullets will center themselves either upon chambering, or upon engaging the rifling upon firing...and this is just Hornady trying to scam more money out of customers. As I mentioned, it will remove wobble down to .003 or less and I have found more than double that in some factory loaded ammo as well as a few of my own reloads. The one thing I have not done is compared straightened loads to out of tolerance loads at the bench. Anyone here done that, or used this tool with favorable results?
 

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I’m interested in how this pans out as well. To my mind, the bullet being a couple thou off the center axis would be straightened out and stabilized by the barrel, so no need for this tool. But there is still much I just don’t know and am willing to learn.

geodude, I’ll get the bucket and salt.
 
If you do use this tool/process to make in your eyes a better round then great. Carry on and do it. I don't feel that the juice is worth the squeeze when shooting the 300 YDS that are my max distances. Shooting 1000 YDS then this might be a help. But for the distances I shoot my case prep and such is a lot simpler. I roll my rounds across the table and look for wobble and use the bad ones as foulers. I am waiting for input from those that do use these tools as well.
 
Over the years I’ve seen enough chambers that were cut off-center and barrels not threaded concentric to the action, as well as a fair amount of actions that were junk AND bad dies to believe that a tool that can confirm my reloading technique is a worthy investment. It helps me eliminate the variables in the process.

I am by no means a machinist, but I know enough that I have learned from competent machinists and gunsmiths over the years about how complicated it can be to screw on a pipe straight and have all the other parts work perfectly (rifles and revolvers here….different techniques for semi auto rifles, shotguns and pistols, of course. But the philosophy is the same).
 
Captain*kirk said:
he claims the bullets will center themselves either upon chambering
Click to expand...

I have seen a round that had significant runout become better upon being chambered, when ejected and measured again.

I don't use the tools to "fix" problem rounds, rather a process development tool.

If I can check a fired case for runout and again at each step, I should be able to instantly see the results and shouldn't be turning out rounds that need to be fixed because I have made my process good enough to not introduce measurable error, along the way.
 
All great comments...thanks!
Bottom line here: the tool does as-advertised. Does it make a difference to anyone other than a competitive BR shooter (which I'm not)? Probably not. Most of my loads are for hunting anyway. Point is, I generally load rifle ammo in small batches of 20-40 rounds. It doesn't take that much extra time to give a round a spin on the Tilt-A-Whirl to see if it's concentric, and if not, give the bullet a nudge. Maybe it doesn't help much (if at all) but sure can't hurt anything IMHO. After all, isn't this in the same vein as weighing and sorting bullets by weight and using an electronic scale to be dead-nuts precise with powder charges?
I guess it all boils down to whether you want MOA groups or are satisfied with MOPie Plate.
To be honest, once I straighten out a wobbly bullet it goes in the batch with the rest of them. I never bothered marking them or tracking accuracy. Next batch I'll try that on and note the results.
 
jmorris said:
I don't use the tools to "fix" problem rounds, rather a process development tool.
Click to expand...
Mr. Morris has it right. About the only useful purpose of Hornady's overpriced concentricy gauge and similar gadgets is evalulating your loading tools and process. (The Hornady version is a poor copy of one made by Chet Brown about 50 years ago, which still occasionally showup on eBay.) There is a glaring flaw in the design and operation that obscures the one measurement that may be benefacial, that being the alignment of the axis of cartridge with centerline of rifle's barrel. Which is most precisely measured at tip of the bullet, which is impossible with Hornady's and other concentricy tools of same design. Which reminds me of the sage observations about barrel straightening by a legendary barrel maker, "you just make little bends out of a big bend, but you still have a crooked barrel." I got a memorable demonstration of cartridge straightening about ten years ago when an importer of pricey German made instruments and his salesman appeared at a major benchrest tournament and announced they were there with a system to make our refined ammunition even more accurate and they were willing to prove it.I was impressed by their chutzpah and so was everyone else, especially when their claims were challenged by Tony Boyer, the most successful shooter in the history of benchrest shooting. What I remember about the fixtures they demonstrated was that they were quite expensive and also caliber specific, with the cartridge captured in some sort of orthopedic embrace. Tony's comparision didn't last long and I remember the good grace with which they admitted they were unaware that benchrest ammo was so accurate and not likely to be improved by their produce. I think they did make some sales for hunting calibers, but haven't been heard from since.
Which takes us back to loading tools and process. Shown is a concentricity tool made by Ferris Pindell (Another legend in accuracy, co-developer of the PPC line of super accurate cartridges) which correctly measures runout at tip of the bullet. Also among accurate tools and processes is my preferred type bullet in-line seating die with with arbor press. Pindell1-2.jpg Arborpress3.JPG
 
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Captain*kirk said:
It doesn't take that much extra time to give a round a spin on the Tilt-A-Whirl to see if it's concentric, and if not, give the bullet a nudge. Maybe it doesn't help much (if at all) but sure can't hurt anything IMHO.
Click to expand...

Right or wrong, it remains untested, but the group-think consensus on this forum in the last thread we had on the topic was absolutely that nudging the bullet can and will hurt something.
 
AJC1 said:
I think it's perfectly valid as a measurement tool. I'm not buying you can fix consentricity without messing with something else like neck tension.
Click to expand...
I agree fully with the measuring tool statement…
I can see using it to help identify where the concentricity, or lack thereof, is occuring in the process if used after every step…
If we start the neck tension theories———-we gonna go south in a hurry….🫣
 
If you believe that it helps you load better , more accurate ammunition ...
... Then Keep On Keeping On !

Test it out on the range ... and make sure ... I don't have one of those and use other methods to load concentric ammo . But do whatever works for you ... there is more than one way to skin a concentric cat !
Gary
 
Captain*kirk said:
Next batch I'll try that on and note the results.
Click to expand...

I must admit... it would be interesting. Find 10 of the worst, find 10 you have to adjust, and find 10 that are fine right out of the press.

AJC1 said:
I think it's perfectly valid as a measurement tool. I'm not buying you can fix consentricity without messing with something else like neck tension.
Click to expand...

That would be my 'spin' on it as well. Does concentricity trump neck tension, though? ...I opine, probably not.
 
So this brings up another thought (and honestly, I never considered neck tension in the equation before...thanks for that logic)...perhaps rather than being used to adjust the concentricity of the bullet, it could be used for simply measuring it, and sorting the ammo into two piles; pile #1= less than .003, pile #2=greater than .003 and see if there is a measurable difference between the two?
Again, with my shooting skills I doubt I could tell the difference. But I guess it can't hurt to try.
Also, FWIW, with regard to measuring closer to the tip of the bullet, you can pretty much adjust the dial indicator as far forward as you please.
 
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