Physical problem = No gun for some

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HANDLOADER

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As you know from my orginal post which was closed down due to certain individuals comments I have terrible nerve damage that cause me to shake and twitch almost non stop. Any way I was purchasing a gun this week and the owner kind of gave me some trouble. He said I could not buy it and I say why thats. Do I have a unpaid parking ticket? No well what is it then. He says its the fact that you are twitching. He says I appear not to be a safe person and he dosen't want to sell it to me. I say so how dose my medical condition make me unsafe? Well if you shake like that then you must be off in the head. Now I am getting irrateded and I attempt to inform him of what the medical condition is. He will not listen and says "ALL YOU CRAZY PEOPLE LIE". That made me mad so I throw my unfilled out regrestion paper for the gun down on the table and I inform him that I will not be coming back to his shop and to be expecting to see me in court. And I am serious as a heart attack about what I said. I believe that this little thing is going to be counted under discrimation have to get with legal. But the reason I am doing this is because I am tired of having to put up with"LOOKS" and the "BELIEFS ABOUT ME AND MY MED CONDITION". So please every one tell me what you think about this sitution.
 
I think the gunshop employee was being a and you should sue as he discriminated against you because of a medical condition.
 
IANAL.
You may have a case, but you'll almost certainly need witnesses. Do you have contact info for anyone else that was in the store? If you can't get some witnesses, it's your word against his, and he may pull the "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" cliche.
 
That sucks, but I would think that the owner of a store can refuse to sell to anyone he so chooses.
 
He will not listen and says "ALL YOU CRAZY PEOPLE LIE"
I'm sorry, and Ghod forgive me if I'm wrong, but I call BS on this. Something just doesn't sound right. For one, that's a pretty random, out-of-the-blue thing for someone to say, and if they really thought you were a "crazy person", I seriously doubt they'd be arguing with you like that in the middle of the shop. Every gun shop/range I've been to, when there's a customer that they don't want to deal with, they quietly and firmly ask them to leave. Now, it may get a bit loud after that if the person refuses, but you get the idea.

Now, if this really did happen - I think the guy is a jerk, but he's got the right to refuse service to anyone, for just about any reason. If he thinks that your shaking is a result of some mental defect, well, I can't blame him for refusing to sell you a gun. If he were selling ice cream or rare books, then yeah, he's out of line.
 
The owner could have shown a little more tact but the fact is if he don't want to sell to you he don't have to.
 
going on only as you have said it......return and bring a friend or two (preferably who have permits) and start again; explaining in a gentlemanly fashion your previous experience. let your friends talk, let him talk. you belong to a range? the NRA? bring papers with you to show that you are accepted elsewhere....how about here?. likely store owners know and talk to each other--burning bridges may prove a bad strategy.
big sign in the window of a local store here reads--"we reserve the right to refuse a sale to anyone." their call.
 
I think the gunshop employee was being a and you should sue as he discriminated against you because of a medical condition
Why does the very first move have to be law suits with some folks, Ask for the manager and if not satisified go to the next store. Right wrong or indiffrent its just easier and costs less.
 
(EDIT: I just realized the original poster was talking to the owner; so I made changes...)

I don't have an issue with the denial by itself. HOWEVER, because of what the owner said, this is not an "oh just be cool" situation. I'd complain in writing to make it formal. I'd post the name of the store and owner online somewhere, anywhere, maybe here. I'd also see if the local paper wanted to post an article, but you better make damn sure your story is completely true. I'd definitely take my business elsewhere. I would do all of this in a calm, professional, deliberate manner. I wouldn't sue - waste of time, energy, stress.
 
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From your description the owner sounds like a small minded twit who had several repeat performances in third grade.

BUT​

to him, part of his responsibilities include not selling a firearm to someone he, right or wrongly, thinks is mentally incompetent. The same as he would not (hopefully) sell to someone clearly drunk or high, or a real drooling, babbling mental defective.

Forget what you know, try to see yourself from his point of view, add the legal burdens and the personal liability issues, and just see if you can understand why he is unwilling to sell to you.

I'm not excusing him acting like a butt head, not even like, sounds like he was. I'm just saying I can understand his reluctance based solely on first impression. And I don't think this will be an easy obstacle for you to get passed.

I know the difference between mental and physical problems. I had a sister with CP, she also had minor mental problems, but we used to take her to the CP center and I am sure you know, some of the physical manifestations of CP are overwhelming to an observer. And yet some of the most physically challenged, were mentally as sharp as tacks, if not downright brilliant if you took a little time to get to know them.

I understand you know all this already. I just wanted to give you a little look into my thoughts before I say some things that I find repugnant to say, sorry that I feel they need to be said, and in a lot of way don't even agree with myself on this view.

your physical problems scare us. Twitching and jerking, funny(not funny HA-HA) walking gaits, these things scare a lot of us. And our first thoughts are these are caused by mental illness. There is no second option, and because we are scared we want nothing to do with you, we want you out of sight ASAP. We will not take the time to find out about you in any way, and we will be terribly rude about getting you away from us, because we are scared.

I, not knowing you, will assume your physical problems will not prevent you from safely using a firearm.

I fully believe you have the absolute same right to own a firearm that anyone else does, and possibly more need of one then most of us who appear normal.

and this is where I find it hard to agree with myself.

I think the burden of proving yourself qualified to purchase, is going to fall upon you. Please believe me, as much as that may bother you reading it, it really hurts me to find myself writing it. I think that rather than the government first proving you are not qualified before deigning you your gun, you will have to show you are qualified before you will be permitted to purchase.

So unless you are willing to look for a dealer that will take the time to look past your physical problems, you may need to go the court route. I think you dealt with a particularly heartless fool, who's mouth is not connected to his brain, but I can see this as a problem you will face often, even with dealers that are smart enough to not say the stupid things they may be thinking.

Good luck, I hope you catch a break. You sound like you fully deserve your firearm, I'm sorry our fear puts an unreasonable burden on you.
 
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He sounds like a world class butthole.
I'd go to another store to buy my guns.

And if you do manage to sue them for something, I won't hold it against you. ;)
 
i wasn't there and have no idea what was really said back and forth. i would guess the salesperson's account may differ from yours, but he isn't here to tell his side of the story. i can tell a story of my own from the other side of the counter.

when i had an FFL and was dealing in firearms i had a customer come to me one day. he wanted a handgun; furthermore, he wanted a handgun RIGHT NOW.

he didn't care if it was a pistol or revolver; he didn't care what caliber; he didn't care how much it cost. he wanted something he could leave with immediately.

his eyes were red and bloodshot. his hands were shaking in what i considered to be an uncontrollable manner. he saw me watching him and tried to put his hands in his pockets, but couldn't stand still long enough to keep them there.

i declined selling him anything. he went off on me about his constitutional right to own firearms, and about discrimination, and that i had to sell to him. i escorted him off the premises and advised he not come back. he threatened to see me in court; i suggested he call the BATF and discuss my right to refuse sale to anyone i was uncomfortable selling to.

most gun stores don't need the headache and hassle that would come from selling a gun to someone who went out and misused it. every sale is a judgement call, and your livelyhood and possessions hang in the balance if you make the wrong call.

selling firearms is an area where the seller can discriminate; if the seller isn't comfortable with the sale, he is under absolutely no obligation to do it.
 
Sir you are not dangerous by any means. That bum should not have treated you like that. Your not crazy or a liar. That jerk was way out of line. If I were a gun store owner I would be happy to sell to you. I have seen plenty of people with medical conditions shoot and shoot very well. I feel he was discriminated against and thats not right.
 
i have advanced MS

and i have an on-off shake in my left arm and hand. and sometimes i need my walker if i plan to be standing very long. i guess i shouldn't be allowed to buy guns either, or drive or take care of my kids. anybody who hasn't suffered at the hands of a disease they, shouldn't judge.i don't shoot when i feel i'm going to have a bad day, nor do i drive that way.
 
Handloader - If a shopowner refuses to sell to you that is his right. Go somewhere else to buy your weapon.

And Handloader, do you Handload?
 
the foot Yes I do handload. I have done it for the past 30 years. john1911
I would not like to release the name of the shop at this present time not until I get some legal advice.
 
The guy may be certainly be lacking in "people" skills, or more simply he may just be a flaming AH, but personality aside ...

They have the right to refuse a sale, and there is no requirement that I know of that they have to say why.

I don't know you, have not seen you to gauge your level of afflicition, etc.

However, if I were to see a person ... that for any reason what so ever ... gave the impression that they may not be able to safely handle a gun, I would not sell them one. Has nothing to do with sanity, or discrimination, the American's with Disabilities Act, etc. It's just a simple matter of safety and common sense. If a person has a condition (any condition what so ever) that leads me to believe that they could have difficulty safely using a gun that won't get one from me. But they will be treated with respect.
 
In some states (NJ especially) a person must be physically capable of handling a weapon to legally possess one. A quadriplegic was denied an FID in NJ by his township. He applied with a plan to hunt with a partner and use a blowtube activated trigger. The local cops didn't like it. Litigation, I believe, is still pending.

NJ FID application form (STS-033)
Question 26: (26) Do you suffer from a physical
defect or sickness?

Question 27: (27) If answer to question 26 is yes, does this make it unsafe for you to
handle firearms? If not, explain.
 
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