Pietti, 1860 Colt wedge

[jmaubin]

I have an 1860 colt replica made by Pietti Steel frame .44 cal. I had mentioned that the wedge on this one goes almost all the way in and was wondering if anyone knew where a wider wedge could be gotten? Someone had said that they thought that the wedges for the 1860 clots made by Uberti were a little wider. I measured the one that I have and was hoping that one of you that own a Uberti could be so kind as to measure yours.
Mine is .135'' or about 1/8" thick. at it's tip end (the end that fits into the wedge slot) is 15/32" wide there as well, enlarging to about 17/32" next to the stopping lip. If anyone could help me out I would really appreciate it. Thanks

 

[BHP FAN]

VTI Gunparts is a good source for a spare.

 

[junior geezer]

i've purchased numerous replacement wedges for my replica M1860 from DGW, and have never been disappointed.

 

[pohill]

Check the wedge exit slot in the barrel - the exit slot metal on my Pietta peened out, making the wedge too narrow and ineffective. I have not tried buying a wider wedge just because it seems like a crap shoot to get one that's just wide enough but not too wide.
I tried many different ways of fixing this problem - a shim next to the wedge works the best. Also, a wedge screw with an oversized head puts pressure on that side of the wedge and holds it in place better (as the screws on the originals did). If you can weld or know a welder (I don't) you can have a small weld put in the cylinder slot and file it to fit your wedge.
If the slot is stretched, and the gun is new and under warranty, and you haven't voided it, I'd talk to Traditions and see if they'll replace at least the barrel. Maybe they'll just send you a new wedge.
This is a case of softer metal in the repros and/or poor fitting of parts. I have an original Colt 1851 .36, with the original numbered wedge, and that gun is as tight as any new repro (well, as tight as a repro should be).
But, despite its problems, that Pietta 1860 .44 I have is still one of my favorites. The action is as smooth as my Signature Series guns and that's saying alot.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Uberti 1860 Colt wedge
length 1.080
width at toe .483
width at heel .524
thickness .136


Pietta wedge
1.087
.479
.515
.140

The wedge on my Pietta extends .150 past the barrel lug, with about .150 before it's completely bottomed. I inserted the Uberti wedge and it was flush with the barrel lug. Sounds like a Uberti wedge may fix your problem.

 

[jmaubin]

madcratebuilder, I belive you are correct. Just double checked the measurements and it seems that the Uberti is just a bit wider.
pohill yes I'm pretty good at welding and I have been thinking of trying a little bead of silver solder on it if the Uberti wedge won't do the trick.
I have also ordered from both DGW, ( its where I got the colt) and VTI as well. their both great places to work with.
Thanks for all of ya'lls help.

 

[BCRider]

I have yet to study first hand how the wedge functions in one of these open tops but I'd be far more worried about the angle of a replacement than I would about the widths. Granted the widths are important to achieve the right positioning but the angle is more important in terms of avoiding damage to the slots in the barrel and pin. The wrong angle will result in contacting and locking the wedge at only one point instead of along the entire face of the edges on the slot. That style of contact will put enormous pressure on one spot and result in the metal swaging out of shape.

Heck, I wouldn't even want to trust the wedge from one gun to fit in another if they were the same brand and model without careful checking to ensure the correct angle.

Maybe I'm worrying too much here but the machinist in me tells me this is important. It's hard to explain how a properly fitted taper should feel. Those that have worked with things like Morse taper arbors know how little force is needed to lock them. I would think that this is the same sort of feel you want to have with your barrel wedge. A proper fit will see the wedge seat and not move from that point on. A light tap from the pistol mallet should not see it move visibly since the wedge should only seat by another thou or two at most. If it goes in and you can push it noticably further with your fingers then it's not a good fit. To the fingers it should feel like it moves in and then just stops and feels solid. If it has ANY sign of wiggle when first seating then it's a poor fit and will lead to bad things happening.


To my mind if you need to widen the wedge so it doesn't slip too far into the slot then I'd be more inclined to look at adding a shim of brass or steel. By using a parallel shim you'll maintain the angle but effectively widen the wedge. Brass shim in small quantities can be found in hobby shops catering to model railroads or airplanes and perhaps in some others working with model cars. Steel shim can be had by slicing up a feeler gauge.

 

[pohill]

I've been using a small shim next to the wedge in that particular gun for years now. It works but it's a pain to remove the wedge and put it back in without losing the shim. I have heard that a small weld inside the arbor slot, to the rear, then filing to fit, will work very well. But, I'll keep using the shim.
BCRider - I have a machinist question for you - I'll start a new thread.

 

[jmaubin]

Guys thanks for all the help. Yall were right the "Uberti" wedge was a little wider and works like a champ. It was a little to wide, but not a problem.
I have a 16 year old son that could never figure out why I'm so picky about my "files". So I showed him how to use and the value of a good sharp file.
Oh by the way the Uberti wedge dressed down just perfect for my Pietti.

 

[JamesKelly]

Pietta, 1860 Colt Wedge

For what its worth, the wedge on my Colt 2nd Generation Army is:
Overall 1.076"
Width: from 0.498" where it enters, to 0.536"
Thickness 0.135"
coltparts.com claim they sell 2nd Generation Colt parts, as opposed to Uberti, et al. Bought one antique '51 loading plunger from them, never (to my recollection) bought 2nd Gen parts.

 

[rifle]

BCRIDER, the slots the tapered wedges go into aren't tapered on many repos at all. If they are tapered the wedge won't go all the way thru. Sound strange? It's the space between the barrel slots at the rear of the barrel's slots that causes the condition for confusion. There's a lot of confusion caused by the wedge/barrel/frame/arbor fit to a Colt open top revolver.

Pohill, the weld goes in the arbor slot at the front not the rear. Put the weld at the rear of the arbor slot and it will not be able to wedge the barrel back towards the frame.

 

[pohill]

Hmmm...so, Rifle (AKA Wayne), you checked with your wife on that one, didn't you? I know she's the brains in your outfit. hehe
I told Wayne/Rifle about five years ago to write all this down. Imagine the book he'd have now...

I will say that in a well known gunsmithing book, the writer says to add a weld to the "wedge's rear flat edge" to widen it, then file as needed.

 

[BCRider]

Jmaubin, you'd be surprised at how many folks think that files are just a metallic replacement for sandpaper and saw away with them and chuck them all in a pile. I almost want to cry when I see good quality files for sale loosely dumped in a bin because the shelf stocker thought the boxes and paper interleaf protection was unslightly. I've even refused to accept files from a desk monkey that came back from the stock room idly rubbing and clicking a couple of "my" files together in time with a tune he was humming. He looked at me like I was an idiot until I explained why. That followed a 30 second lesson about files and why the original boxes and separator paper needs to be kept intact. To his credit he had not known about them and was very apolegetic even to thanking me for the "lesson". And no, he had not had any degree of metal working shop training. Just another sales guy trying to make a living.

Rifle, this'll all be far more clear in about a week when my own Euroarms 1851 arrives.

 

[Ratdog68]

LOL I've got a helper at work... I've issued him ONE wood chisel. He's not allowed near the rest of my chisels. That poor thing gets used for just about anything and is beat on with a framing hammer against all sorts of materials.

Mine have their protective rubber covers on their blades, live in their own canvas bag and see only a soft faced mallet, or my paws.