What led you to that conclusion? There are multiple folks in this thread https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/braced-pistol-stamp-watch-thread.915513/ who have received their stamps.
pistol brace overturned?
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Sistema1927
Member
If you ask them, they have no "stamp". They have an approved form, with the language that I quoted, but no stamp. Again, no stamp. Why, Because no tax was paid. You only get a tax stamp if you pay the tax. I have two former braced pistols with the tax free Form 1 approvals, and there is no stamp. Repeat, no stamp. You get an approved form, but, dare I say, NO stamp.
(One might ask why you think that they got a stamp?)
dogtown tom
Member
This.
People habitually call any approved Form 1 or Form 4 "a stamp". Mostly because the overwhelming majority have a stamp affixed.
A "stamp" affixed means a tax was paid. Form 3's, Form 5's don't get stamps and neither do Form 1's and Form 4's when "the Secretary" deems it so. "the Secretary" being the Attorney General)
Ran into the same belief relative to my amnesty papered MP40..........some insisted I hadda have a stamp for to to be legal.........DGT is absolutely correct. Incidentally I also still have a LEO approved form 1 M1 selective fire carbine....no stamp either as a provision of the IRC provided for tax free to a LEO w/ the CLEO approval back in '67.
Sistema1927
Member
So, how does any of that become cause for your response to my original contribution that these Form 1's were issued with an approval condition of being pursuant to the final rule?
Elkins45
Member
I have seven approved Form 1‘s that were submitted through the Eforms system, one that was submitted on paper, and two Form 4’s that were also on paper. Only the three paper forms have an actual tax stamp. The others were returned electronically as a PDF file and have a transparent image of a stamp where the physical stamp would be on a paper form. Tax was paid on those electronic forms but they don‘t have a physical stamp.
The physical stamp is irrelevant.
dogtown tom
Member
Because "the Secretary" possesses the authority to exempt certain "makings" or "transfers".
Are there any exemptions from the making or transfer tax provisions of the NFA?
Because several of the posters stated that they did. What you're saying certainly throws an interesting twist into things though, that's for sure.
Those are ones for which the tax was paid, correct?
armoredman
Member
Ah, now that makes a difference.
Elkins45
Member
Yes. The tax paid ones have an image of a stamp.
EDIT: I was wrong. I just went to my computer and looked. There’s no picture of a stamp on my amnesty brace form.
Last edited:
Elkins45
Member
It really doesn’t. No one who ever filed thru the Eforms system ever received a physical stamp regardless of whether they paid the tax or not.
Elkins45
Member
Just to clarify, since I was wrong above. People who used Eforms and paid tax for an NFA item received a PDF file with an image of a tax stamp like below:
People who filed for pistol brace amnesty received a PDF file that looked like this:
At the bottom of the page it says this:
Did I get a stamp when I received the first form, or did I only get a picture of a stamp? Does it make a difference? When Eforms was first established there were people on some of the NFA forums saying using the Eforms system would be a short trip to jail because the law specified you had to receive an actual physical stamp and that Eforms was an elaborate trap. So far this hasn't proven to be true to my knowledge.
I guess you don't get a tax stamp if you don't pay a tax. Not even an electronic one.
People who filed for pistol brace amnesty received a PDF file that looked like this:
At the bottom of the page it says this:
Did I get a stamp when I received the first form, or did I only get a picture of a stamp? Does it make a difference? When Eforms was first established there were people on some of the NFA forums saying using the Eforms system would be a short trip to jail because the law specified you had to receive an actual physical stamp and that Eforms was an elaborate trap. So far this hasn't proven to be true to my knowledge.
I guess you don't get a tax stamp if you don't pay a tax. Not even an electronic one.
dogtown tom
Member
While the "short trip to jail" was ridiculous on its face, they were correct as to the law and ATF regulations.
For Form 4 transfers:
§ 479.81 Scope of tax. Except as otherwise provided in this part, each transfer of a firearm in the United States is subject to a tax to be represented by an adhesive stamp of the proper denomination bearing the words “National Firearms Act” to be affixed to the Form 4 (Firearms), Application for Transfer and Registration of Firearm, as provided in this subpart.
For Form 1 "makers":
Subpart E—Tax on Making Firearms § 479.61 Rate of tax. Except as provided in this subpart, there shall be levied, collected, and paid upon the making of a firearm a tax at the rate of $200 for each firearm made. This tax shall be paid by the person making the firearm. Payment of the tax on the making of a firearm shall be represented by a $200 adhesive stamp bearing the words “National Firearms Act.” The stamps are maintained by the Director.
Jim Watson
Member
So what happens if you sell one of these freebie SBRs? Do you and the buyer both have to pay $200?
Elkins45
Member
Buyer pays and files a Form 4 if they want it to retain its SBR status.
If I were selling one I would put a >16” barrel on it and send ATF a letter saying it’s no longer an SBR and please remove it from the register.
Elkins45
Member
Which begs the question about all those Eform stamps out there, which have to number in the thousands by now. How can they be legal without the adhesive stamp? Is “because ATF says so” the correct answer?
Sistema1927
Member
"The stamps are maintained by the Director". In other words, they maintain possession of it, and give you a copy on your pdf.
As to the earlier kerfufle, hopefully all now see that there is no stamp, either physical nor facsimile, on the amnesty brace Form 1 approvals. I have a facsimile stamp on my e-forms Form 4 suppressor approval, but none on my two amnesty Form 1's.I have no qualms about being legal, at the present, but I do wonder if "pursuant to final rule" is going to continue to be valid is and when the final rule is tossed out completely.
Elkins45
Member
Well, I hope so because if it isn’t then I wasted $20 for prints and $5 for postage.
dogtown tom
Member
Try hundreds of thousands.
My best guess is Congressional approval of the budget line item for the development and implementation of eForms, implies approval.
Styx
Member
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If you want to sell your "freebie SBR," all you need to do is take the stock off or put a 16" barrel on. There is no requirement to send the ATF anything or to unregister it. That's at your discretion. If you want to sell it in SBR format, then the buyer needs to fill out a Form 4 and wait for approval.
gbw
Member
Hello:
I haven't kept up on this, but I would like to know and perhaps others would like the same update:
If anyone knows and has time to explain, or can point me to a definitive answer:
Exactly, definitively, where does this whole AR 'pistol' with brace / AFT Final Rule business now stand?
For example, I see Palmetto State Armory advertising AR Pistols with a brace attached as if the whole final rule never occurred. They make no mention of the Final Rule nor whether the brace is Federally legal.
It's all been very confusing.
Thanks,
gbw
I haven't kept up on this, but I would like to know and perhaps others would like the same update:
If anyone knows and has time to explain, or can point me to a definitive answer:
Exactly, definitively, where does this whole AR 'pistol' with brace / AFT Final Rule business now stand?
For example, I see Palmetto State Armory advertising AR Pistols with a brace attached as if the whole final rule never occurred. They make no mention of the Final Rule nor whether the brace is Federally legal.
It's all been very confusing.
Thanks,
gbw
Styx
Member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2014
- Messages
- 3,282
There is currently a nationwide preliminary injunction blocking the ATF brace rule. It is as the rule does not exist at the current time. The case is still moving through the courts though. The preliminary injunction could remain in place or be lifted at a later date. Respectfully, if you aren't the type or do not believe that you have the time/energy to stay up-to-date on the topic as it moves through the judicial system, I recommend that you not buy one or (re)install a brace on your pistol.
gbw
Member
Mr. Tom:
Thanks for the update and advice. Which i’ll heed.
One more question:
Assume the final rule does survive and the injunction is lifted.
A. Will simply removing and discarding the brace, OR
B. Installing a 16” barrel and discarding the short barrel,
bring a pistol into Final Rule compliance? No other changes required?
Again, thanks.
Gbw
Thanks for the update and advice. Which i’ll heed.
One more question:
Assume the final rule does survive and the injunction is lifted.
A. Will simply removing and discarding the brace, OR
B. Installing a 16” barrel and discarding the short barrel,
bring a pistol into Final Rule compliance? No other changes required?
Again, thanks.
Gbw
First there is no stamp with the amnesty form 1 as there's no tax collection.
Second the amnesty form 1 is an approval with conditions. What that means if overturned is up to them, they can leave the ones already approved alone or cancel them.
Third you need to understand that a SBR is only a SBR when it's actually in SBR configuration, so if the brace rule is overturned and they let you keep your form 1 then you can do what you want leave it a SBR or not.
I wouldn't get rid of the brace until the ATF says what they're gonna do with the approved forms.
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