Pistol caliber carbines - why didn’t I know?

[DMW1116]

Regarding economy of handloading for the PCC (or any 9mm for that matter), its always worthwhile to mention the numbers and arithmetic.

Cast/swaged 9mm bullet is about 7 cents
Primer about 7 cents
Powder charge about 3 cents
Brass is free

This means you can save about 10 cents per round on 9mm if you handload.
If you shoot 5000 rounds a year (that's a lot by my standard), you save $500/yr. by handloading 9mm.
But handloading sure does take a lot of time, and while well-crafted cast-bullet handloads can be quite reliable and accurate, I don't think anyone will argue that cast-bullet 9mm ammo is quite "as good as" factory FMJ.
And we'll keep in mind that while you "saved" $500, you still spent $850 (plus your time) on building the ammo.

I can foresee these 9mm PCC's I've got still lying over here new-in-the-box could eat up some ammo.
Hoping for fun times in the process.

The further you get from 115 grain range ammo, the more worthwhile it is. My 9s shoot better with heavy 135-147 grain bullets, along with the subsonic benefits if you’re into that. Those are considerably more than 115 grain FMJ range ammo.

To wring a little more velocity out of a rifle length barrel, a slower powder like Blue Dot or True Blue can be helpful. How much more? I don’t know that but if you don’t hand load, you can’t even try.

 

[kimberkid]

I’ve had PCC’s & SBR’s for a couple decades … if you can enhance the trigger with a F/A receiver, DIAS or even a binary trigger it’ll enhance the experience exponentially … if you’re into that sort of thing.
When I got my first MP5, SBR’d it I was so excited, until I shot it. I mean it wasn’t a total disappointment but it was just less than I expected, which is when I started looking for (and found) a DIAS, which is the ultimate however the binary trigger is almost as much fun.
My least favorite is the Scorpion EVO but that’s mostly due to the recoil impulse and arthritis in my shoulder, however the recoil impulse is heavy because of the massive bolt/carrier … kinda like a MAC10 & M11nine, but worse.
The Colt pattern PCC’s are very popular and less expensive than the HK’s & clones, until you add a binary trigger or get into the M16 receivers.
Which, by the way … I don’t know anyone that has EVER lost money on legal full-auto receivers, DIAS, or Lightning Links.

My most favorite full-auto is my MP5SD and currently my favorite binary is my 10-22 Charger …

 

[aaaaa]

Did you get the Magpul drum? I have been wondering how reliable they are.

I did get the Magpul drum PMAG D-50 GL9-PCC. I only ran it once, but if fired flawlessly. It is a bear to fill the last several rounds though should improve after use. There is a lever that helps pack the rounds and is a huge help in filling it. It is probably the one magazine I most enjoyed filling. In case of mob attack I would probably wish for a half dozen drums or 10 or 20 of the 17 or 33 round magazines.

BTW I was running Magtech 9mm 124 grain FMJ and in fact bought 2000 rounds of it to have on hand, minus about 200 rounds I ran through the PC-9

 

[Pat Riot]

I did get the Magpul drum PMAG D-50 GL9-PCC. I only ran it once, but if fired flawlessly. It is a bear to fill the last several rounds though should improve after use. There is a lever that helps pack the rounds and is a huge help in filling it. It is probably the one magazine I most enjoyed filling. In case of mob attack I would probably wish for a half dozen drums or 10 or 20 of the 17 or 33 round magazines.

BTW I was running Magtech 9mm 124 grain FMJ and in fact bought 2000 rounds of it to have on hand, minus about 200 rounds I ran through the PC-9

I hope you never encounter a mob attack.
I have several 33 fun sticks. I have yet to actually use them. I should break them in soon.
Thanks for your info on the drum mag. I should probably get one and try it out.

 

[aaaaa]

I hope you never encounter a mob attack.
I have several 33 fun sticks. I have yet to actually use them. I should break them in soon.
Thanks for your info on the drum mag. I should probably get one and try it out.

Looks really cool mounted on the gun. Yes the 33 round sticks are a lot of fun and not terribly far off from the drum, what 3 fun sticks equal approx 2 drums.

 

[Riomouse911]

Nice to see folks getting into the PCC realm, these rifles really are a lot of fun when you get them out to play.

Like @Pat Riot , my first two PCC’s were lever guns intended for SASS shooting back in the mid-1990’s; a 20” Rossi ‘92 .357 and a 24” Win 1894 Legacy in .45 Colt. Both went by the wayside when my SASS flames fizzled out around 2005.

I returned to PCC island in about 2008 with an 1894 AE Trapper in .44 Mag, then later on added 16” Rossi’s in .357 and .45 Colt. The final addition about four years ago is the Ruger PC9 with the Glock magwell insert. I must say this rifle has been a great shooter, it is now one of my favorite guns to take along bar-none.



Stay safe.

 

[Pat Riot]

Well, I was going to start a new thread but since this is about a new to me Pistol Caliber Carbine that I just picked up this morning I will go ahead and post it here.

I bought a used Henry Big Boy X model .45 Colt for $750 this morning. My LGS had a new one a while back for $989, but at the time I just couldn’t swing it and it sold.
Saturday I was there using their indoor range and when I got finished shooting I did a tour of the shop to look at guns and there in the display was a used X model priced at $750.
I decided yesterday to take a couple of guns I no longer wanted and head to the gun store this morning and work a deal. They’re closed Sunday.

The guy that owned it couldn’t afford to feed it so he sold it and now it’s mine.
You can see some copper smear on the loading gate. The clerk at the store said he didn’t think the guy that owned it shot it much. Judging by the lack of wear on the bolt and lever I would agree.

I am very stoked to have it. Hopefully the forecast stays true and I will get it to my club on Weds or Thursday and put some rounds through it.

A couple of quick photos.

 

[Gun-Reck]

Speaking of which, found this one intriguing:

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[Rock185]

I've had 9mm and .44 Mag PCCs for years, and recently added a .357. The PCCs are just fun range plinkers for me. Recoil with the 9mm and .357, especially if shooting .38Spcl. in the .357, is very gentle on my old shoulder. The .44 has more noticeable thump on both ends, but still nothing like shooting .44 Mag. out of a revolver..

 

[Walkalong]

 

[MikeInOr]

I like my Ruger PC carbine but it is kind of big and clunky for what it does. I haven't shot mine since I got a Ruger PC Charger with a binary trigger and a tax stamp.

 

[P5 Guy]

The .44-40 Winchester Center Fire (WCF) and the .38-40 WCF are historically significant rifle rounds. Let’s delve into their origins and characteristics:

1. .44-40 Winchester Center Fire (WCF):
   • Developed in the late 19th century, the .44-40 WCF was a popular cartridge for both lever-action rifles and revolvers.
   • Originally, it featured a bullet diameter of .427 inches and a weight of 212 grains.
   • However, the folded-rim cartridges used in the Model 1866 Winchester were not ideal for containing the pressures required for powerful loads.
   • To address this, Winchester necked down the .44-40 WCF cartridge, reducing the bullet diameter to .401 inches and the bullet weight to 180 grains.
   • The resulting cartridge was named the .38-40 WCF, even though it’s technically closer to .40 caliber.
   • From a 24-inch rifle barrel, it launched 180-grain bullets at speeds ranging from 1,100 to 1,150 feet per second.
   • Despite being developed during the black powder era, it still holds up ballistically, comparable to the modern .40 S&W with cast bullets12.
2. .38-40 Winchester Center Fire (WCF):
   • Introduced by Winchester in 1874, the .38-40 WCF is derived from the larger .44-40 WCF.
   • It shoots .401-inch caliber bullets and was designed as a lighter recoiling alternative for lever-action rifles and revolvers.
   • Although often referred to as “.38 caliber,” it’s actually closer to .40 caliber.
   • The .38-40 WCF maintained adequate power while offering a flatter trajectory and reduced recoil, making it easier to hit targets.
   • Even when revolvers were chambered for it, the cartridge remained respectable, achieving speeds of around 800 feet per second34.

These cartridges played a significant role in firearms history, and their legacy continues to intrigue enthusiasts and collectors alike.

 

[wgp]

Never was very interested in the PC carbines until I recently found a Ruger LC carbine in .45 ACP. I find it to be well-made and finally in a more potent round, and what a blast to shoot. I put a Vortex Sparc on it and at my range, shooting 6" steel from back as far as 50 yards, almost never missed. I sure can't shoot a .45 pistol like that. It uses Glock 21 magazines, in the grip, which is great, and I stumbled across a 30-round mag as well. I'm very happy with this gun.

 

[Shodan]

Not sure if worthy of a new post so ...

I've dabbled in IDPA and have considered shooting a PCC. Interested to hear your experience and see what you're shooting.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

right now I have three pistol caliber lever guns. A Henry Golden Boy, 22, a Rossi R 92 stainless, 16 inch barrel 38 special/357 mag, and a RossI R 92 stainless 20 inch barrel, 45 colt/454 casull.
the best carrying is the 16 inch barrel, but they are all really fun to shoot.

 

[doubleh]

I have never become very interested in pistol caliber rifles of any kind but did always like the 92 Winchester, probably because of all the oater movies I have watched. I finally bought a Rossi replica in 357. It's very pleasant in 38 special loads but a bit nasty with full house 357 loads because of it's light weight. It will do me for pistol caliber carbines.

My SIL has two 9mm carbines. They hold no interest at all for me. This is not meant in anyway to discourage anyone from getting one. I just started my feelings about them. If they float your boat get one or more.