Pistol round to the chest. Lethal or no? (a la Punisher et. al.)

[Cameron Lamont]

I am amazed and the lack of "real" knowledge and, dare I say it, intelligence on the internet.

It is common knowledge that common service caliber handgun loads are relatively weak, and are not the best man stoppers. We would all grab a rifle or shotgun if we had the time right?

We all know, using common sense, that any average adult can easily survive a handgun round or two to the torso.

We know that, not only will the average adult survive two or three COM hits, but that the energy dump and crush cavities are NEVER enough to incapacitate let alone cause someone to stop the simple tasks of walking and talking.

C

 

[LoneStranger]

Just remember that the Arkansas State Medical Examiner signed a Death Certificate stating that some fellow shot himself in the chest with a .45 eight times. Obviously suicide!

If a .45 can't do it in one or two what chance do other rounds have?

 

[Waitone]

I believe the technical term is "Arkancide."

 

[Waitone]

I believe the technical term is "Arkancide."

 

[buy guns]

"In Reservoir Dogs, Tim Roth's character, takes a point black revolver shot to the stomach. He stays alive for hours and bleeds to death. He survives a while, but he is very weak and can barely talk in the end. Tyler"

i thought his "partner" shot him after the cops busted in?

 

[Quartus]

I am amazed and the lack of "real" knowledge and, dare I say it, intelligence on the internet.

It is common knowledge that common service caliber handgun loads are relatively weak, and are not the best man stoppers. We would all grab a rifle or shotgun if we had the time right?

We all know, using common sense, that any average adult can easily survive a handgun round or two to the torso.

We know that, not only will the average adult survive two or three COM hits, but that the energy dump and crush cavities are NEVER enough to incapacitate let alone cause someone to stop the simple tasks of walking and talking.

I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not. On the off chance that it was NOT:

1. It's true, but it's not common knowledge. Most people in this country, including shooters, get most of their gun "knowledge" from Hollyweird.
   
2. Common sense isn't a good way to know things - that's how everbody used to know the world is flat and that heavier things fall faster. Learning from experience (perferably the experience of other people) is much better. In this case, we learn from much experience that some adults survive gunshot wounds to the the torso, and some don't. Of those who survive, some do it "easily" and some do it hard.
   
3. Again, learning from the experience of others, we know that the average adult doesn't exist. REAL adults will react in a thousand unpredictable ways to a gunshot wound to the torso. And the word "NEVER" is rarely a good word to use when discussing a phenomenon with as many variables as gunshot wounds.
   [/list=1]

 

[Cameron Lamont]

I will try to be EVEN MORE OBVIOUS in my sarcasm next time.


Sorry.
Cameron

 

[Quartus]

Thank you! That would be of help to some of us.






Really, though, you've met people as uninformed and opinionated as you pretended to be, haven't you? Gunshops and the 'Net are full of them.

 

[BluesBear]

Whew I was worried there for a moment.

I suspected Cameron was being sarcastic and while I truely appreciate a twisted sense of humor, there are a million people in the world and at least a dozen here on THR that would have read his words and taken them as the Gospel.

It is for the benefit of those 1,000,012 that Quartus made his statement.

Perhaps a simple from Cameron would have helped. But then there would have still remained those confused 12 who would have been left wondering. And you never know they all might end up on the same jury someday.


Quartus has a point though, one of my favorite threads to see started are those "If brains were dynamite the guy in the gunshop today couldn't have blown his nose" types.

 

[Quartus]

Thanks, Blues.


I don't feel quite so dumb now.




Nice job, Cameron. <where's the "embarassed" smiley here, anyway?>

 

[Kismet]

Some 20+ years ago, some organized crime folks took their accountant to the parking lot of a Hyatt Hotel in Skokie (It was purple), and shot him several times in the back of the head with a .22. Seems the accountant had made arrangements to talk to Federal Authorities....

The shooters left the body in the car.


When the accountant came to, he went in the hotel and asked to call the Feds.

Over the next several weeks, two bodies were found in different trunks of cars in the city. They were reputed to have been 'shooters.'


Seems one slug bounced off, and the other slipped under the skin and took a path outside the skull but under the skin.

But hell, it knocked him out.

Picky, picky, picky.

 

[BluesBear]

Just goes to show ya...

Seven bullets couldn't stop Orange deputy

She and another injured patrol officer outgunned three home invaders who had ambushed them.

Wounded and worried about three children a few feet away, Orange County Deputy Sheriff Jennifer Fulford emptied her .45-caliber pistol and then reloaded during a fierce shootout Wednesday with three home invaders in Pine Hills.

An assailant's bullet hit her gun hand, forcing her to use her left hand to continue fighting.

Before the shooting ended, she and Deputy Sheriff Dwayne Martin had killed one of the attackers and shot another one in the head. A third was arrested when other deputies arrived.

"I heard she went through one clip and reloaded, which is totally unbelievable," said Steve Jones, chief spokesman for the Sheriff's Office. "It's just by the grace of God we're not burying two more deputies."

Fulford, 31, was shot at least seven times in her hand, arms and legs before she could return fire. Martin, 30, was hit once in his shoulder during the gunbattle at a home where authorities later found at least 340 pounds of marijuana.

Both deputies were in stable condition after surgery at Orlando Regional Medical Center.

Fulford and Martin rushed to the home on Medford Drive after a frantic 911 call at 7:50 a.m. from an 8-year-old boy, whose mother had been forced into their home by the would-be robbers.

When deputies arrived, the suspects made the woman go outside to tell Fulford and Martin everything was OK.

Instead the woman told deputies about the attackers and begged Fulford to rescue her children who were inside her vehicle in the garage.

As Fulford approached the van, she was ambushed, and the shooting started, Jones said.

Both deputies trained their semiautomatic Glock pistols on George Jenkins, 25, and John Dzibinski, 25. Jenkins was killed, and Dzibinski was in critical condition Wednesday evening with a gunshot wound to the head. A third man identified as Shaun Byrom, 20, was taken into custody and was arrested on charges of felony murder. All three were in Central Florida from South Carolina.

The boy and his 2-year-old twin siblings stayed in the van during the gunbattle. Neither they nor their mother were hurt. Sheriff's officials did not identify the woman.

Deputies later went to the Enterprise Motel on Vine Street in Kissimmee where the South Carolina residents had been staying and seized two AK-47 semiautomatic assault rifles.

Those weapons match several used during a similar home invasion in North Charleston, S.C., police reports show.

Spencer Pryor, a spokesman for the North Charleston Police Department, on Wednesday said Jenkins and Dzibinski were wanted on charges of first-degree burglary, armed robbery and possession of a firearm while committing a violent crime Jan. 6.

In that crime, the suspects fled in a burgundy Honda Passport that matches the sport utility vehicle found Wednesday outside the home that is owned by Clinton Allen. The South Carolina victims also reported the suspects carried semiautomatic handguns and an AK-47.

In Pine Hills on Wednesday morning, bursts of gunfire rattled the neighborhood shortly before 8 a.m.

"It sounded like 10 or 15 shots, going back and forth," said 13-year-old Alexander Roundtree, a neighbor who watched the shooting unfold from his window across the street. "Then I saw this man fall down. He was the man in the white shirt. He didn't get up."

Sheriff's investigators were stunned when they found the marijuana and said the drug appeared to be the motive for the attack. It also cast suspicion on what initially seemed a random act of violence against a mother and her three kids.

Sgt. John Allen, who heads the sheriff's homicide squad and is no relation to Clinton Allen, said the suspects had loaded some marijuana into their vehicle when deputies arrived. Deputies later used a search warrant to confiscate more marijuana in the garage area and inside the home. No drug-related charges were filed.

Sgt. Allen said late Wednesday that an unidentified person helped the suspects set up the robbery of drugs at the house.

Investigators said the mother was leaving the house to take her son to school when the three men burst out of the SUV and forced her back inside her home. Her alert son then picked up her cell phone and dialed 911.

"Apparently one of the heroes in this story is the 8-year-old boy," said Jim Solomons, a sheriff's spokesman. "He was able to get his mom's cell phone and make a critical call."

Fulford has been a deputy since 2001 and works as a road-patrol officer. She's a field training officer and was training another deputy, Jason Gainor, at the time of the shooting. Gainor was not injured; it's not clear if he was involved in the shootout. Martin joined the agency in 1999 and also is a patrol deputy. Last year, he spent several months in Iraq as a reservist.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...may06,0,4258849.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

 

[tex_n_cal]

The Punisher oddly, I thought was more realistic, with the character getting ambushed.

What got me about Man on Fire is the supposedly experienced special forces guy going into a gunfight with lots of expensive weapons, but no body armor.



Oh yeah, in reality both guys would have been DRT, they were both shot in the major veins to the right of the heart.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I don't recall who said it, but it seems applicable here. It goes something like..."Never assume your opponent is dead until his head is separated from the rest of his body by a distance of no less than four feet." I don't know why the distance reference is needed, but figure it is just an additional margin of safety. I figure most folks will be dead if their heads are separated from their bodies by just a few inches.

 

[The_Antibubba]

BluesBear

What an oddly balanced story. Odd, that is, that it gets the guns and designation right, and that it doesn't appear to be anti-gun. Is The Orlando Sentinel always like that?

 

[MeekandMild]

Wasn't Andrew Jackson shot in the chest during a duel?

 

[BluesBear]

Even fatal shots aren't always instantanious.
I am also reminded of this story that we discussed in this thread.

(boldface emphasis added)

Three bullets failed to stop home intruder, records say

RENO GAZETTE-JOURNAL
9/16/2003 11:26 pm

Like a scene in a horror movie, three bullets from Charles Cryderman’s .357 magnum revolver didn’t stop the intruder who broke into his Douglas County home Aug. 2, according to reports released Tuesday.

So Cryderman, 51, grabbed a shotgun out of his bedroom and, lacking shells for it, clubbed Walter Francis Hetrick, 40, over the head and upper torso hard enough to break the gun, Douglas County Sheriff’s Office reports said.

After the shotgun came apart, Cryderman “said he continued striking Hetrick with the butt of the shotgun as Hetrick crawled down the hallway towards the children’s bedroom,†one report said.

Cryderman could see Hetrick was “running out of gas,†the report said, and Cryderman pleaded with Hetrick to “stay there†and stop crawling down the hallway.

Moments later, sheriff’s deputies swarmed the home, handcuffing a bloody Hetrick and ending the trauma to Cryderman. His wife and their two children were hiding in a bathroom.

Hetrick later died in a hospital.

Recounting the incident later for investigators, Cryderman said it was like the movie “Friday the 13th†or “like Jack Nicholson in ‘The Shining,’ †a report said.

Prosecutors said Aug. 29 they wouldn’t file criminal charges against Cryderman for the death of Hetrick, who spent most of the last 20 years in California psychiatric hospitals for the 1984 murder of a friend.

District Attorney Scott Doyle returned from vacation last week. The investigative reports were not released until Tuesday, after Doyle had reviewed the decision not to prosecute and also decided not to hold a coroner’s inquest, sheriff’s Sgt. Tom Mezzetta said.

Cryderman declined to comment Tuesday on the contents of the reports, which recount in detail what happened at the Log Cabin Road home.

Cryderman was watching television when Hetrick, whom he had never met, showed up at his door and asked, “Is Stacy here?†the reports said. Cryderman told him he had the wrong house.

The 6-foot-1, 230-pound Hetrick became angry, starting talking about rape and began pounding on the door, the reports said.

As Cryderman got his Smith & Wesson revolver from a bedroom, the noise at the front door stopped. Cryderman thought Hetrick might have left, the reports said.

Then Hetrick began banging on a side door, saw Cryderman was armed and yelled, “Put the gun down,†the reports said.

Hetrick threw a brick against the door and kicked it open. Cryderman fired, and the door slammed shut. Hetrick kicked the door open twice more, and Cryderman fired one shot both times, the reports said.

Hetrick “finally lunged into the residence,†the reports said, and Cryderman fired twice more, using up the five rounds in the six-shot revolver.

Cryderman, who had loaded the gun with Federal brand ammunition called Hydra-Shok, told investigators he kept one cylinder in the revolver empty and put the revolver hammer on that empty cylinder during storage.

Three of Cryderman’s five shots hit Hetrick: in the upper torso, the thigh and in the foot. The shot to the thigh ultimately proved fatal, severing Hetrick’s femoral artery.

But Hetrick still kept moving through the home, so Cryderman got his unloaded shotgun with over-and-under barfels. He had no ammunition, so with the gun still in the case he began beating Hetrick with it, the report said.

Hetrick grabbed the shotgun at one point and the two struggled over it, but Cryderman got it back and continued beating him, even after the case came open and the shotgun game apart, the reports said.

Two days after the break-in, investigators talked to Hetrick’s mother and aunt in Antioch, Calif.

Hetrick’s relatives showed investigators seven bottles of prescription medication Hetrick had stopped taking and his mother, Linda Minor, described him as a danger to himself and others when he stopped taking medication, the reports said.

Copyright © 2003 The Reno Gazette-Journal

http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/htm...ocal+News&sp5=RGJ.com&sp6=news&sp7=local_news